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Not to be too much of a pedantic b*****d, but you contradict yourself in your second paragraph. if something is deserving of a "higher duty" then it is more important than that which there is a lesser duty towards. That's the way it works.

It's called "Supererogatory actions". It means that it's nice to do it, but it's not immoral not to do it.

Ethics class: I do so love it. heart Except when due dates for papers come up... stare Gotta finish that before monday...

My sister's friend was prochoice. Until his girlfriend aborted his child. He's still severely depressed, needless to say they broke up. Yeah, it's not his body, but it is his child. I'm pretty sure that if someone ended up taking a vital organ from me, my dad wouldn't be thinking about how it saved the other person's life, or made the other person's life easier. I"m pretty sure he'd be thinking, "You killed my child." He woulda thought it before I was born too. Males who are prochoice tend to do so because it gives them less responsibility when it comes to sex, as she can just abort it anyway, and it seems so moral and liberating. Unfortunately, a lot of men turn prolife due to their unborn children being killed against their wills. That's when it hits home. Abortion not only gives no rights to males, it takes away from their rights.

You know what else I love? THey have no "choice" to pay child support or have it aborted.....

So basically, if the woman wants to keep it, they need to pay no matter what.
If a woman doesn't, they lose their child no matter what.

It's a lose/lose situation unless you've got control of your girl (don't anyone be offended by that, I mean in the sense of knowing her, and being able to get her to do what you want by manipulating her and picking your words carefully) or she's in total agreement with you. This last part covers a small portion of men. Anyone who does the manipulating thing wouldn't admit it, probably, but there are many who do it, which is sad. A man has no say in the future of his child. He can't tell a woman not to abort, and can't tell her to abort, so whichever way....he has to live with the consequences of her decision as well as the consequences of his. Guys have more consequences when it comes to sex, because they have to stand by and allow whatever the girls want, to happen.

This is why I'm angered when people say, It takes two to make a baby, and then later say it's her body, her choice. If it takes two to make a baby, it should be his choice too. If it's her body, and her choice, she is ultimately freeing the man from any sort of responsibility, meaning it's her fault she is pregnant and aborting because it's her body, her choice. It doesn't take two to make a baby. It takes two to make a "clump of cells." By saying he has no right in her decision of what to do with this "clump of cells" it should mean that he has no obligations to her anymore. Otherwise, it's extremely unfair to the man.

Me too.

One of the choicers in the Pro-choice guild was debating with me as if I was a woman, and when a guy chimed into the debate, she said that he has 'no ******** say' as it's not his body.

It seems like men only get a say when they support whatever the woman wants, as you said.

I for one feel very blessed to be dating a guy who keeps his pants on. No pressure. He has never expressed a desire to have sex once. That's not an insult. razz

But whenever we discuss the possibility of having children in the future it's always "our children" or "our daughter" or "our son" (such as this random thought - "I wonder what type of orange juice our children would like").

I usually only use the word "my child" when I'm talking to anyone but my boyfriend. But he uses "my child" just as much around other people...but instead of being offended I'm actually quite happy by the fact that he can see himself as a father.

He's pro-life. He's not adament about it and he doesn't speak out...but he really doesn't speak out about anything really... But his opinion is pro-life and he does tell people that if the subject comes up.

But maybe in the long run that doesn't do anything for the "men only get a say when they support whatever the woman wants" arguement since in this case we have the same opinion.

It seems kinda funny cause the topic of abortion came up in art class one time, and it seemed like most of the guys in the class were pro-choice and most of the girls pro-life. Of course, I know that it isn't necessarily an accurate projection of most of the world, but still, it seemed kinda odd.

There's both the guys whose girlfriends abort without asking their opinion, and the guys who won't stick around when they find out their girlfriends are pregnant... What a sad, sad world... stare