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Nemithena

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Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 6:27 pm

This is not a 'bless the Irish' thread in the traditional sense - it is political; sorry.
((x-posted from the Catholics, so it'll seem very biased, obviously))

I've been listening to Bloody Sunday a lot recently, and I remember bits of the news as a kid. Obviously I wasn't alive in '72, but Bloody Sunday in Derry, to me, seems to be particularly defining of how unpeaceful Ireland is, and has been. I remember the most recent ceasefire, and how that seemed such a big thing to the adults around me.

Even in England itself, the Cardinal is still petitioning the Prime Minister to end the discrimination regarding Catholics in the Royal Family. In Great Britain, if you marry a Catholic, or convert, you forfeit your place to the throne. Fair enough, you may say, as you would then have to be Defender of the Faith for the Church of England, which is Protestant and...yeah, there is a problem. But Catholics are the ONLY ones discriminated against by this law. We were only set free because "emancipation was a great danger, civil strife was a greater danger". Okay, so that guy was pretty tory, but you see where I'm going.

In my opinion, this law regarding the throne just shows that the Penal Laws were never really repealed (the Penals made sure we held the same degree of citizenship as mud). The Penal Laws saw that Catholic Bishops were banned from Ireland, and Catholic Priests with a quasi-Nasi strictness. And the Bill of Rights (1689) maintains Catholics could never rule because: "it hath been found by experience that it is inconsistent with the safety and welfare of this protestant kingdom to be governed by a papist prince".

However, things are still pretty good in England, in comparision to Northern Ireland; a Catholic friend married a Protestant woman, and they both had to flee here. And of course, the immigration staff had the same taking to the Irish then as they do to Asians now. And then there was Bloody Sunday: on January 30th, 1972, 14 people were killed in Derry while protesting by the British Army. Why? Who knows. The second government enquiry (the Saville Enquiry) is due to be released late 2007 // early 2008.

Over the course of a century, so much blood has been shed in Ireland for freedom from the Union of the British Isles or freedom within the Union of the British Isles.

So my questions for you today are:
- do you think the conflict will end?
- what do you think about the law preventing a Catholic monarch?
- why do you think it's got this hostile in Ireland?
- do you think the blame lies on either, both or neither side?
- what would you do if you were there?
- do you think it's right or okay to 'monitor' people of a certain religion?
- how do you think this ties in with the current goings on with terror elsewhere in the world?
- how does this issue make you feel about being Catholic (if you're Catholic), Protestant (if you're Protestant) or something different altogether (if you're something different altogether)?

Right. I ranted and spoon-fed your eyes out; I demand a response.
whee

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:09 am

Nemithena

So my questions for you today are:
1. do you think the conflict will end?
2. what do you think about the law preventing a Catholic monarch?
3. why do you think it's got this hostile in Ireland?
4. do you think the blame lies on either, both or neither side?
5. what would you do if you were there?
6. do you think it's right or okay to 'monitor' people of a certain religion?
7. how do you think this ties in with the current goings on with terror elsewhere in the world?
8. how does this issue make you feel about being Catholic (if you're Catholic), Protestant (if you're Protestant) or something different altogether (if you're something different altogether)?

1. Uhh, hard to tell as someone who is not really involved into it. I think, someday. But I cannot tell when "someday" is.

2. Well, in some weird historical context it made sense. It made. Nowadays it never came to my ears that the Queen really had to protect the Anglican church. This law is outdated.

3. The classical suppressor/suppressed scheme? The English invaded Ireland, Catholic=Irish => Catholic against Protestants. Well, I think there are far more reasons, but is has been a while since I lastly dealt with this topic.

4. Both sides. Protestants may have started, but the Catholics... Well, we are a selfrighteous bunch sometimes. wink

5. Despair, because my love is Protestant? (okay, Agnostic, but on the paper...) I really don't know, but I hope I would become creative.

6. Well, if it are the Catholics or the Muslims or whatever, no, I do not think it is correct. Not every insert-religion-of-your-choice-here is a terrorist, a*****e, childmurderer or well poisoner. If the country claims to be free and lawful, it is not allowed to do this - by its own laws...

7.Not sure. Some of the structures may be the same, I think, but a real connection? I simply do not understand the motivation of some terrorists. Real freedom fighters, okay, a bit, but modern terrorist, where the reason of their doings is long forgotten?

8. I am not feeling any other about my fellow Catholics. We are all humans. Including the flaws of humanity.

Cadiya

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jesus_geek

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Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 6:02 am

Nemithena

So my questions for you today are:
- do you think the conflict will end?
- what do you think about the law preventing a Catholic monarch?
- why do you think it's got this hostile in Ireland?
- do you think the blame lies on either, both or neither side?
- what would you do if you were there?
- do you think it's right or okay to 'monitor' people of a certain religion?
- how do you think this ties in with the current goings on with terror elsewhere in the world?
- how does this issue make you feel about being Catholic (if you're Catholic), Protestant (if you're Protestant) or something different altogether (if you're something different altogether)?

Good Questions! I'm a Protestant from the United States, and not of Irish ancestry. (English, actually, a long way back)

1. Yes, the conflict will end when Jesus returns, if not before. smile
2. Isn't the Queen's role as head of the Anglican Church just as a figurehead. Umm, I don't agree with that; I think that figureheads have no place in the Church, but just people with extensive religious training or experience. So that's a stupid law.
3. It's as hostile as it is because the conflict has been brewing for centuries. Much easier to end a new conflict than an old one.
4. I'd say there's blame on both sides. Protestants for starting it, Catholics for perpetuating it.
5. If I were there, I'd pray a lot. For unity, love and brotherhood.
6. It's OK to monitor one "certain religion" as long as you also monitor all other "certain religions."
7. Well, for one, religion is at the root. (kind of, but then only kind of in many other situations) Also, the Brits are using things that they learned in Northern Ireland to fight terror nowadays.
8. It makes me mad at those Protestants who would point out all the myriad times that Catholics have persecuted Protestants without realising how many times the opposite happened. It makes me angry as to the disunity in the Church.

Jesus

"My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me."
--John 17:20-21

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