Welcome to Gaia! ::

Is there any members of the IMT here in this guild?

its trotsky-ist...

that was rude on levels that you probably can't even understand.

I don't know how imature you were trying to make yourself seem to everyone but I'm sure you surpassed it.

Also I took the liberty of getting you a better picture to use from now on!

I have a very low opinion of Trotskyists and tend to look upon them as starry eyed individuals who have little understanding of the material conditions by which the struggle for socialism ebbs and flows. The Trotskyites represent a left-revisionist tendency which lacks understanding – perhaps this is why the youth so quickly flock to it. The Trotskyite is the “ultra-revolutionary”. For instance – Trotskyite dogma clearly appears in the discussion regarding The Peoples Republic of China. Be it a “deformed workers’ state (a Trotskyite term) or “State-Capitalist” – another Trotskyite term used by some to differentiate themselves or even by followers of Mandel who say that the “Stalinist” states can still be saved. The Trotskyite says “look they are retreating from socialism and are, as such, not socialists” this is completely untrue. The communist movement in China and other places deemed “Stalinist” by the Trotskyites have only taken retreats in order to survive – they have no intention of straying from socialism! I would encourage you to look into real Marxism-Leninism, and compare it to what Trotsky presented as Marxism-Leninism and see that these things are *entirely* different, and that what Marx presents as “permanent revolution” is actually entirely different from what Trotsky envisions.

The whole foundation of the debate between Stalin and Trotsky even comes down to Stalin's "Socialism in one country" (a policy Lenin supported! - as a temporary measure and which has no real opposition in any mainstream Marxist-Leninist policy) and Trotsky's "Permanent Revolution" which can be summed up as many of the policies that Stalin undertook rather disasterously in the Soviet Union (Trotsky is actually upset at this plagerism of his rather devious plans to "liquidate the peasants" and etc, in his Revolution Betrayed: what is the Soviet Union and where is it headed)

I share quotes from “The Revolutionary Vanguard” by M.I. BASMANOV, B.M. LEIBZON

“Wherever an alliance of the democratic forces is taking shape the Leftists endeavour to discredit it. In France they go to all lengths to attack the Left joint government programme and campaign against what they term as “united frontism,” “coalitionism” and the “bluff of unitarism.” The British Trotskyists consider that the policy of the French Communist Party spells out “attraction for parliamentarism” and urge the erection of impediments to the implementation of the French Communists’ programme guidelines. While branding as reformist any effort made by the Communist parties to strengthen anti-monopoly unity, the Leftists style themselves as proponents of the most resolute actions that allegedly can lead at once to the socialist revolution. The Il Manifesto group, which proclaimed itself a “party” in 1974, attacks the Communists and “opposes compromises with the reformists,” claiming that for Italy “there is only one alternative: the socialist revolution.”I The recipes offered by the Leftists for bringing the masses to the socialist revolution are as simplified as can be. They suggest demands and slogans that cannot be achieved under capitalism. They contend that the outcome of this “radicalisation of demands” will be that the working people, reduced to desperation, will see for themselves that capitalism must be replaced by socialism. Soon after Salvador Allende’s election as President in Chile the Leftists began demanding a general nationalisation of the land, the confiscation of all private enterprises, and so on. The Trotskyist Revolutionary Workers’ Party, Leftist and other groups opposed the unity of all the anti-imperialist and anti-oligarchy forces in the struggle for revolutionary reforms. On August 31, 1973, ten days before the fascist putsch, the Chilean Trotskyists demanded the resignation of the Allende Government.

“What is the unity of the pseudo-revolutionaries? The French Trotskyists declare: “No agreement is conceivable save on the basis of the programme of the Fourth International.” The British Trotskyists are prepared for “unity” only when it is “based on the transitional programme of the Fourth International.” Gerry Healy, one of the leaders of the London “International Committee of the Fourth International,” stated bluntly: “When we talk of unity with an opponent organisation it is to get rid of that organisation.”i While regarding the Left-radical organisations as rivals, the Trotskyists try to use them to recruit supporters.”

“But the Communists are aware that in the Leftist groups there are sincere romantics who believe they have found the best road to socialism. For that reason, while being irreconcilable to Leftism, the Communist parties do not regard every person coming under the influence of pseudorevolutionary feeling as lost to revolutionary action. The best way to fight Leftist elements is to promote broad and more active democratic unity. At the same time, the tangible successes of joint actions in the struggle against the monopolies undermine many of the roots nourishing Leftism.

If you wish for more quotes showing why the followers of Trotsky hinder the revolution due to their impractical policies I will be glad to elaborate more fully. Though I do caution you, I’m not personally criticizing you or making you out to be a wolf in sheep’s clothes – I just hope to allow you to see that true Marxism-Leninism is the proper course of action and is more politically feasible and thus more revolutionary than ultra-leftism due to its various flaws caused by its ahistorical and unscientific nature (many of which are not named in the quotes above for time’s sake).

Oh well.. anyways I don't think trotsky was killed at all.... I think.... He moved to kentucky and started a fried chicken bussiness

I think I should have also mentioned that we do not "blindly follow any marxist", we believe in analyzing and re analyzing all writtings to find the best possible answer or reason or best possible path to take etc.

We feel we must often be critical in our analysis when it comes to Lenin or Trotsky. In doing this we learn to understand what it is they were saying and how that can be interpreted today. We do not give any kind of "idol status" to anyone! and we do not act as if their writtings are written in stone or are the bible. We definitly do not say or do things with the attitude of "Trotsky said this so we will do it exactly as he said even though that was 70 years ago " or "Lenin did not do things eactly in this way so we wont either because we have to do things exactly as he did". We believe that every revolution is different and takes on different forms, therefore there will always be different methods for every country. People are different and things cannot always work like how they did in 1917 Russia.

Between Lenin and Trotsky niether of them were perfect, they both made their share of mistakes. Had they not and had they been perfect than Russia would be a true socialist country now.

Analysis is a very important factor in marxism for all marxists alike, if we do not analyize anything and blindly follow the words of whomever then it would be a great disaster, one in which communists have faced before.

Also whitout analyizing where would we be today as marxists? Marxism would not exist if Karl Marx had not analyized things for himself and worked out formulas.

I feel this should be as marxists no matter what tendency this should be our goal, to analyze so we can truely understand and learn from history, unless we wish to repeat it.

With all that said though, the writting of Lenin and Trotsky are great to learn from and you should not let a certain bunch of people turn you off to reading things from either of them. There is alot of knowledge there to be learned from the both and we should use whatever tools we have access to.

You know, the more we argue between types of Marxism, the more we get off track, and the farther from revolution we really become.... I hate arguing this. I mean, I'm a guy who reads as much Lenin and Trotsky as I do Huey P. Newton (Black Panthers, for those who don't know).

The last thing you want to argue about communists is is communism... It's like talking Christianity with Christians.... It's all about whose is better and whose is truer, and everyone forgets that they are united for the same goals.

And no, I'm not a member. I really don't join any political organizations. Just collect literature.

Oh, I DID join Campus Republicans for a film project. But that's a different issue altogether.