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 Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 6:19 pm
The most common definition for virginity is simply: never engaged in sexual intercourse. This definition is the one I encounter the most. To further define this common definition, I will use the common definition of sexual intercourse: insertion of p***s into a v****a.
However, this definition is unsatisfactory, for it doesn't cover sexual relations between those of the same sex. For example, two woman, who have never had sexual intercourse with a man, have sex together. By the above definition, they would still be virgins, but yet they indulge in sexual behavior with each other on a daily basis. Would not both of them lose their virginity the first time they shared sex with each other?
Also sex between two men do not even involve a v****a. So the above definition does not work for these two situations.
This now leads us to the question of what exactly is virginity?
Is it a state of being that is more spiritual in nature? Or is it based primarily upon the physical response to sex such as an orgasm?
What other definitions of virginity exists?
Also, here are some personal questions for you to digest: How would you define virginity? What does it mean to you? Do you consider yourself a virgin, and why do you think you are one?
Discuss, my friends!
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Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 2:01 pm
Did it really need a double entendre?!
Back from Berlin and stressed, so I'll reply later!
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Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 6:47 pm
Nemithena Did it really need a double entendre?!
Back from Berlin and stressed, so I'll reply later!
Don't stress yourself out too much!
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Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:44 am
At least for women having sex with each other I'd tend to some kind of medical definition: The "breach" (right term?) of the virginal membrane. The only problem with this is that the membrane of some women doesn't brake until the birth of their first child.
So I'd say the loss of virginity happens when you're engaged in sexual intercourse in whatever way that is more than petting. This would even include a**l (hetero) sex to avoid pregnancy, for example.
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:23 am
Kittie2038 At least for women having sex with each other I'd tend to some kind of medical definition: The "breach" (right term?) of the virginal membrane. The only problem with this is that the membrane of some women doesn't brake until the birth of their first child. So I'd say the loss of virginity happens when you're engaged in sexual intercourse in whatever way that is more than petting. This would even include a**l (hetero) sex to avoid pregnancy, for example. Er, the loss of your hymen can also happen during sports... Sometimes. Well, the loss of the physical virginity is overrated. It is considered mature to loose your virginity. But after having it lost I must say under the circumstances it happened it hasn't changed anything for me. More important is the loss of mental virginity, your innocence. Almost everyday we may loose a bit of it. This is getting mature.
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:10 pm
Cadiya Kittie2038 At least for women having sex with each other I'd tend to some kind of medical definition: The "breach" (right term?) of the virginal membrane. The only problem with this is that the membrane of some women doesn't brake until the birth of their first child. So I'd say the loss of virginity happens when you're engaged in sexual intercourse in whatever way that is more than petting. This would even include a**l (hetero) sex to avoid pregnancy, for example. Er, the loss of your hymen can also happen during sports... Sometimes. Well, the loss of the physical virginity is overrated. It is considered mature to loose your virginity. But after having it lost I must say under the circumstances it happened it hasn't changed anything for me. More important is the loss of mental virginity, your innocence. Almost everyday we may loose a bit of it. This is getting mature. I'd certainly agree that losing your virginity is more psychological than anything else...
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Violet_Abyss Vice Captain
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Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 11:34 pm
It's interesting how some of us define it as more physical and others as more psychological, yet we seem to agree that there is an psychological element involved.
Why would losing one's virginity be considered "becoming mature?" Is this due to the idea that losing one's virginity is a "rite of passage?" If this is so, then there is not only a physical and psychological aspect to virginity, but also a sociological aspect.
But then what does this "rite of passage" signify?
Is virginity valued as something more than just a "rite of passage?"
One idea is that virginity is the action of "saving oneself" for the one person in which one will share the rest of one's life and/or marry. Thoughts?
(I want to hear all of your thoughts first before I voice mine, mostly because I posted this as a discussion to see what others had to say, and I didn't want my thoughts accidentally influencing others - or sparking a disagreement since right now I just want to hear everyone's initial thoughts.)
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Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 3:59 pm
You know, the title makes me smile every time I see it.
On another note, in a risky and expensive comsetic surgical procedure, on can have a hyman reconstruction. Why you'd actively want it (ie. why you would want it when it is not against your own will), I have no idea.
I would disagree to virginity being a rite of passage; it seems silly to me to assume that having a man put his thing inside me is going to make me grow up. Yes, if I was young, then it would shatter my childhood. But I don't see it doing anything particularly noteworthy for those of us considered 'old enough', if we were to engage in intercourse for a first time.
I think the idea of "loosing one's virginity" is interesting, and expresses our social emphasis on it. It also strikes me as weird that there's a push to loose it, and then the big issue about when and how and with whom to loose it, and finally the repulsion of peers as to its loss. I perfer to stay as out of it as I can, but it's not very nice to see friends hurt because they didn't really think things through.
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Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 10:21 pm
Nemithena You know, the title makes me smile every time I see it. Quote: On another note, in a risky and expensive comsetic surgical procedure, on can have a hyman reconstruction. Why you'd actively want it (ie. why you would want it when it is not against your own will), I have no idea. Quote: I would disagree to virginity being a rite of passage; it seems silly to me to assume that having a man put his thing inside me is going to make me grow up. Yes, if I was young, then it would shatter my childhood. But I don't see it doing anything particularly noteworthy for those of us considered 'old enough', if we were to engage in intercourse for a first time. Quote: I think the idea of " loosing one's virginity" is interesting, and expresses our social emphasis on it. It also strikes me as weird that there's a push to loose it, and then the big issue about when and how and with whom to loose it, and finally the repulsion of peers as to its loss. I perfer to stay as out of it as I can, but it's not very nice to see friends hurt because they didn't really think things through.
This leads me to another question: why do men value virginity lower than women? In the sense, that to be a virgin is seen as pathetic and "loserish" by most men? (These questions based on what my male friends have told me.)
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Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 4:21 am
Anarya This leads me to another question: why do men value virginity lower than women? In the sense, that to be a virgin is seen as pathetic and "loserish" by most men? (These questions based on what my male friends have told me.) Well, sexuality and potence are very important themes for adolecent males. On the one hand the very macho approach of masculinity, on the other hand it is a proof of being desireable. This mixture minus the whole "Keep your virginity", which is mostly apllied onto women/girls, makes being a virgin less valueable for boys, I think.
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Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:58 pm
You'll notice there are places in the world where huge numbers of women are sex workers, with any "decent" girl keeping herself pure, while the men can do what they like with the contents of their trousers.
I honestly don't think having a p***s heighens your sex drive. So I'm not into physical stimulus alone....that doesn't mean I'm any less horny than the average scrotum-owner. Making sex a physical activity alone ruins it for anyone with a feminine taste - generally, women actually need the before and the after to really enjoy it - generally, men are more easily excited by visual elements. In general terms.
I think the idea of virginity is often unfairly applied, in terms of sex (boy vs. girl sort of...this is sounding worse by the minute) bodily sex, to the female more than to the male; women must be pure, men must not be. No-one escapes some sort of pressure. Virginity and lack of it....does it really define what's within a person? It's so superficial. I just want to know people and be a person and be down with the Lord. I think it's stupid when people ask me "what 've done with J". Does it really matter? I have plenty of people who genuinely think I've had sex with him, whereas we just...haven't. We don't want to do that right now, and it just makes me want to.... scream .
Sorry...it's just annoying.
Hymen reconstructions can be done if a woman would like to marry a particularly picky person, when it comes to bridal honor. Many cultures, including many in the Western world, prize virgins so highly women want this done. One can also have various parts of the vulva "made pretty" (why would it look any less gross smaller?), and something very risky, where only one doctor in the country does it, and was only done it for, like, a year, to your clitoris for £600 a s**t....four months it lasts?
But...yeah.
We have a bit of a vanity problem.
And, goodness, and honor problem.
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Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 1:27 pm
Anarya This leads me to another question: why do men value virginity lower than women? In the sense, that to be a virgin is seen as pathetic and "loserish" by most men? (These questions based on what my male friends have told me.) Aha! This is something I can answer. (I haven't forgotten about you, Anarya. I just haven't come up with a good answer yet.) Anyway, historically, the reason that virginity and fidelity is more valued in women than it is in men is that...well, women get pregnant. When a man married a woman, it was important that she was a virgin so that he could be (reasonably) sure that any child conceived shortly after their wedding was indeed his child, and not the child of someone that she'd slept with shortly before they got married. And female fidelity is generally more expected for the same reason: so that everyone can be sure that the father is indeed the woman's husband. Also, possibly because of this (not sure if the two are technically related, but it seems likely), women were, for a very long time, property of their husband. And most men didn't like owning "second-hand goods," as awful as that sounds. Since the modern western world was birthed from a patriarchal society, a lot of those attitudes have sort of been subconsciously retained, even though the sexes are far more equal and we've realised that females do indeed have orgasms. More and more though, I'm seeing males valuing their virginity as much as many females, and females being just as eager to lose their virginity as many males. The social attitudes about sex are indeed changing, but there's still quite a bit retained from back when women weren't even expected (and certainly weren't required) to enjoy sex.
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Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 1:10 pm
Enj, that's interesting concerning the history.
Though I am curious as to the views of sex and how they relate to virginity. For I think the two are related and cannot be separated. For if one views sex as just something fun to do - like drinking or playing a game, then being a virgin holds less value. But if sex is viewed as something special given to someone one deeply loves, then virginity holds a much higher value.
Is there any other ways of viewing sex? And of these views, are any healthier than others?
Also, Nemi, you bring up an interesting point - does virginity really define what's within a person?
I'm going to have to think about that one more.
Cadiya ~ you bring up the masculinity aspect of all of this, which I find intriguing.
I am curious as to what exactly is considered masculine and what exactly is considered feminine. How did these views come about?
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Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 2:02 pm
I'm sure to some traditionalist Jews, marital sex is a women's right, and not a man's. But in popular culture, this has always been, and still is, reversed. Sex is the couples' way of saying "yes, I love you", but that doesn't mean there's one way of doing it. The "yes, I love you" is said in disregard of what you partner may not be; we love people for the lot that they are, rather than the little that they are not. Love doesn't care about virginity. Love just loves the person. And love is spoken through sex.
Yeah, sex can be screwed up. But so can other methods of showing love.
All people have qualities assosiated with those with vaginas, and qualities assosiated with those with testicles. If you want to label those 'catagories' of qualities and base your expectations of people around them, that's fine with me. Just don't expect me to follow you. I could swear, a lot of the time, I shouldn't have had a womb, but for the rest of the time, it just reiterates why I oppose the current socio-political norm.
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Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:05 pm
Nemithena I'm sure to some traditionalist Jews, marital sex is a women's right, and not a man's. But in popular culture, this has always been, and still is, reversed. Sex is the couples' way of saying "yes, I love you", but that doesn't mean there's one way of doing it. The "yes, I love you" is said in disregard of what you partner may not be; we love people for the lot that they are, rather than the little that they are not. Love doesn't care about virginity. Love just loves the person. And love is spoken through sex. Quote: Yeah, sex can be screwed up. But so can other methods of showing love. Quote: All people have qualities assosiated with those with vaginas, and qualities assosiated with those with testicles. If you want to label those 'catagories' of qualities and base your expectations of people around them, that's fine with me. Just don't expect me to follow you. I could swear, a lot of the time, I shouldn't have had a womb, but for the rest of the time, it just reiterates why I oppose the current socio-political norm.
What quality makes men different than women besides biology? And vice versa?
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