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Is chivalry dead?
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Sombergoddess
Captain

PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:15 pm


Debate is good for the soul and I liked the idea in the suggestions thread to debate stuff. Here's a topic my friends and I have debated in the past

Is chivalry really dead? Should it be? and as good Wicca/Pagans should we teach our sons/future sons the imporantness of Chivalry?

What do you all think? And this does apply to Wicca... respect of woman and such always apply to wicca lol.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 2:22 am


No I don't think it's dead. And I am teaching my son. he's only five but he already likes to carry heavy things for his sisters ( well tries too.) he holds the doors opean for ladies like when we go to a store. I think it is very improtant. But I also have to teach him the importance that women can do things themselves. heart

Bayleigh of the Dark Moon


Sombergoddess
Captain

PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 2:58 am


I totally Agree...
I don't have any children yet... but I try to impress the importance of holding door and stuff on my friends son. He's so cute... He even knows the whole age before beauty thing..... when he's holding a door he'll say "OK... great Grandma goes frist" it's so cute I want to pinch hims cheeks lol.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:48 pm


I don't think chivalry is quite dead. It may seem dead because of how many modern men act toward women, but there are a few men in the world who are still chivalrous(sp?) toward women and girls. I do not have kids (I'm 14 years old) but when I am much older and I do have kids I want to teach chivalry to them.

Tari_Leralonde


Sombergoddess
Captain

PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 10:45 am


lol..... not much of a debate.... so far we all seem to agree.
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 11:18 am


Lol you've got that right

Tari_Leralonde


Terror of Win

PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 5:02 pm


What is chivalry anyways?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 12:13 am


GefallenFox
What is chivalry anyways?


courtesy towards women

the medieval principles governing knighthood and knightly conduct

the code of behavior associated with medieval knighthood.

the qualities idealised by knighthood, such as bravery, courtesy, honour, fidelity, and defence of the weak.

Sombergoddess
Captain


Terror of Win

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 1:15 pm


Oh. I knew it was about Knights, I came from a history of Knights, Warriors, Dukes, and Royal Blood. But I didnt know about the curitousy to women. Just like I thought dogs came from eggs haha. Im retarded.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 7:33 pm


I don't think chivalry is completely dead, but it has decreased a lot.

I'm kind of torn myself, but I like someone elses uidea here (Baleigh of the Moon, was it?).

When I have children, girl or boy, I'm going to teach them the importance of it. I mean, a girl can hold the door open for a guy too, or for other people in general. I think I'll teach any son I may have to be kind and respectful of women, to realize they are strong too, and are capable of much, but every now and then it's nice to do something for them, like holding a door open, or giving them flowers, and taking their hand as they geto ut of a vehicle, etc.

I'll teach any daughter I may have to take a boys' offering of a hand or an open door graciously, but to not expect it all the time, and to make sure it is well known that they are every bit as capable of doing those same things for themselves, and in return for others.

This is the 21st century, after all.

Rebel_Dynasty

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Sombergoddess
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 11:10 pm


I think I get what you're saying... need to teach girls that they can stand on they're own two feet and don't NEED a man or anyone to help them, and that they should respect everyone the same way they expect to be respected. Which I totally agree with.

but... and this has nothing to do with anything anyone said.... just a rant on my part lol.

I am also a firm believer that the sexs are not equal or the same. No matter how much we maynot want to admit it... Most Men will always be stronger than most woman. Just as there are things that woman are better at than man. I think we need to stop trying to raise our boys and girls the same. It makes for confused boys. We need to embrace the things that make the sexs different, and each child different from the next for that matter. I'm not saying don't let boys play with dolls or don't let girls sword fight. Let kids play the way they want to play you know. My friend has three kids and she treats them all the same... She won't let her boys wrestle or sword fight or even play tag because they're to violent and create stigmas of singleing people out. I say that they're boys and thats what boys do... if you don't let them be boys then then they're gonna be bored and not have a male idenity. Her boys are little terrors and I really think it's because she only allows them to play with unisex and girls toys. They can't even have GI joes, because they might play war games with them. They spend all they're time watching Care Bears and playing tea party and dolls with they're sister. I think They need an outlet for all that testosterone.

Sorry....... I was over there the other day and I had to get that out.... It kinda fit the topic so......
PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:33 pm


I get what you mean; I don't think it's right for her to stifle what makes her sons what they are; boys!

I wasn't suggesting that all girls should be tom-boys and all boys should be flamboyant ^^; (I know you said it didn't really have anything to do what someone else said, but I thought I'd put it in anyway), but rather that if a girl likes hotwheels, and a boy likes to play with cabbage patch dolls or something that they should be allowed to do so.

By doing what she's doing (not letting her boys play with boy things when they want to) she is repressing (or suppressing? Are those words interchangeable here?) they're natural masculine energies, and though they are subdued now, they'll go out of control when they rebel against her. They'll have far more of it later on if they're refused the right to release it now. Same goes for girls; if a father, or even a mother, forces her girl to be more masculine, she'll be far too feminine later.

I also semi-agree with the other point you made; due to evolution over the ages, males have more muscle mass than women, but it does not make them better. In a sense, we balance each other out. Men are stronger, and thus, eat more than we do to keep the muscles mass. They were the original hunter/gatherers of caveman times, (I can't remember the scientific term >.>) and protected their mates and children.

The women protected their children too (much as other mother animals do) but we have more aerodynamic bodies. We're built smaller than guys so that we can dodge danger more efficiently. We can put up quite a fight if we need to, but we're more the flight type.

But, we also have both energies within us. Girls have a dominant feminine energy, and some masculine, whereas it is vice versa for men.

I don't need a man to protect me, but I feel safer when my fiance is near.

Basically, I think both genders should respect each other for what they are. If we wish to strive for more (if a women wants an equally strong muscle mass to a man, or a man would rather be more stream-line like a women) then I also condone that. Our personal goals are our own, after all.

But, you're right. My children will be free to choose. I played with ninja turtles, hotwheels, video games, etc. But I also owned barbies, my little ponies, and prtend kitchens and make-up sets.

I got the best of both worlds, and it helped me develop a sense of self, even though it was difficult being caught between the two genders.

It made for a more challenging experience, and a worthwhile one, I might add.

Rebel_Dynasty

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Sombergoddess
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:55 pm


right my parents raised me the same way... Pretty much any toy I wanted I got. Well not really.... i wasn't spoiled lol. I mean... If I wanted thundercat action figures... there was just as good a chance that I'd get them as if I'd asked for a barbie... I was never told... No thats a boy toy. and I know lots of girls that say the same thing. So whats the hang up with letting a boy play with "girls toys". The little boy in my life gets called a she whenever he takes his baby doll out lol! I really don't get society today. But I guess thats all besides the point.

My point above was really that we should encourge gender rolls on kids because it helps form their identity.... but I get what your saying to about not forcing things on them too. I'm tottaly for letting them play with each others toys!
PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 8:03 pm


Exactly; 3nodding I've also seen it work in other ways, too. If a girl is forced to be overly girly, she will rebel, and go full-out tomboy, and if a boy is forced to be too macho, he will likely wind up flamboyant.

It doesn't always happen, but it has.

As for me, I'm still the same old tomboy deep inside, but I'm a woman too, and I'm not ashamed of it. I'm a bringer of life, I'm more emotionally adept than most men, I have my talents as well.

No shame in any of it; regardless of gender, we all have our strengths and weaknesses. It's what makes us who we are, and shapes our future.

Rebel_Dynasty

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Sombergoddess
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 4:56 pm


I totally agree! haha, I wish more people would chime in on the subject... give us something to debate! Like the person who voted yes lol.
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Sanctuary of the Goddess

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