Welcome to Gaia! ::

So I was going to start this really in-depth thread about the nature of pre-destination vs. free will, complete with literary references, but then I thought...naw, sex is more interesting. blaugh



As a homosexual raised in a devout Catholic family, my faith and my sexuality have often been a source of emotional woe. I went through the "God hates me" phase, and I went through the "I hate God" phase, but now that I feel at peace both with my religion and with my sexuality, my biggest battle in terms of homosexuality vs. Christianity is one of the social nature. For various reasons, the Christian community and the queer community are very much at odds with one another. Queers want legal rights, and many Christians, who feel that homosexuality is a sin, are trying to keep those legal rights from being granted.

Which leaves people like myself in a rather awkward situation. Obviously, I want to be legally married to my partner, I want to be able to raise children with him, I don't want to be fired from a job because of my sexuality, and I don't want to get lynched by angry street mobs for kissing my lover in public. But I also want to be involved in my religious community. I want to be involved in outreach programmes, youth projects, and be able to attend Mass without "SODOMITE" being stamped across my forehead in big neon letters.

I dislike the "us or them" mentality that this whole dynamic has created. It seems that if you're a Christian of the non-heterosexual persuation, you're a traitor to both sides and nobody wants you around. At your church, you're an evil sinner who will corrupt their children, and with queer activists, you're "helping the enemy."

Many people, on both "sides," seem to think that you're either queer or you're Christian, but not both.

And for the record, yes, I am being slightly over-dramatic for the sake of discussion.


Spoon-fed Discussion:
-Is this a "battle" that anyone should really be fighting?
-Does either side deserve to be as antagonised as they are?
-The age-old question: Can you be both queer and Christian?

Oh, I've found a parish that I'm very comfortable with. I didn't really me for this all to be about me specifically. More about the general feud that often goes on between the two communities, and how that can make it awkward for people who wish to be a part of both.

In a perfect world, everyone would read what actually exists as a sign on some churches, and do penance at the gate. Sexuality has got nothing to do what how good you'd be as a Christian, although, in the nature of Christians and gays being at each other's throats, it does seem to make one a particular kind of Christian.

And I'm sure you know exactly what I think of Considerations.
And the weird right-wing Protestants down the road, who're *this* far away from 'God hates fags'.

I also think it's just downright stupid for anyone to assume what everyone does - that there are no gay Christians, or that they're closeted at best; the BBC reported the adoption war as between 'the gays' and 'the Catholics' - annoyed me. I remember sitting through a talk on sexuality (by one of the aformentioned brand of Protestant), and ending up in with my face -wet- with tears within fifteen minutes (I had to listen for a whole bloody hour). And they're coming back in a week or so!
Or maybe tomorrow.....bollocks.
twisted
Sorry.

I think Christian groups can be more accepting of sexuality in general if they know one of *us* who's gay. And at any rate, homo- and bisexuality were mental illnesses pre-1992, so it is easy to understand why old Christians are totally against it all (but why (some) Catholic doctors still say sexuality can be mentally altered in a subject? no idea).

But, yeah, I've lost the ability to structure rants of late; sorry.

Enj, I'm haunting your guild! Now for some rambling:

I think that sometimes people are so caught up with "rules" that they forget the core of Christianity - Love.

I have a friend (Enj, I've talked with you about her before!) who is fervent in her belief that it is a disorder that can be cured. She says she's entitled to her belief as the next person who may believe that it is not a disorder but an aspect of one's being. Now I don't bother debating her on it anymore (it'd go nowhere) and just plainly respect her belief, but I ask that she does not condemn queers and act with Love toward them. She has agreed to this at least.

This is the main barrier - there are some sects of Christianity that is so tied up in the belief that homosexuality/transgender/bisexuality is a sin in of itself. At least the Catholic Church differentiates between being one - calling it a disorder - and the acts themselves - calling that the sin. Some Christians do not make that distinction and combine them instead. Also some of the loudest in this battle are those that are ignorant and do not understand the details. They just use hearsay to make their points, and then become upset when questioned. Why? Because questions rock their foundations, and this is a piece of their foundation. Enj, you do a much better job of describing that phenomenon.

For the most part, I think this battle is filled with people who don't know the entirety of the argument, and do not bother to research. Also many Christians, sadly enough, forget about Love when it comes to subjects like this.

Ooh....all the avatars are gone.
eek
Horror over, I did have something, said so many times before, to say.
Ah...yes. But it's more of a getting-it-out-of-my-system thing than a philosophical discovery.
sweatdrop
Nonetheless, it creeps me out like goodness knows what when people say:
a. they want an end to homosexuality
b. they think it is a totally disfigured way of being
c. they think it is a mere opinion
d. actually, it's usually a combination of all the above.
As if, you know, you can just choose. Like you were just a 'bad kid', and then as soon as you pray the gayness is washed away.

I mean, is it just me who thinks it's all a bit weird?

Aw..the therapy. rolleyes
And the "your parents obviously abused you and now you're gay you're going to recreate Lolita".
My goodness; I can't even laugh it's that funny.

We should let you loose with a knife.
A really long one.
And diplomatic immunity.

I always wondered how even people who agree to evolution believe that homosexuality etc. is just an illness, fashion, add whatever you want. When I tell those people that homosexuality is so fraggin' natural for many species throughout the world I get the rather silly argument that those (evolutionary successful) animals don't know what sin is and that this is what distinguishes humans from animals. As if evolutionary success was a sin. You just don't get into the heads of those people that the only thing distinguishing humans from animals is the power of imagination. And even here the borders are anything but clear. So, if animals of many different species are able to raise siblings successfully despite their homosexuality, why shouldn't we, as beings able of imagination successful as well? Heck, even prostitution is natural.

I think the whole public discussion is getting stupid when it comes to people claiming you have to chose a side. When taking a decent in-depth look I come to the conclusion that there are as many "sides" as there are individuals. Because in the end it all comes down to the question wether you take your belief seriously or not. And that is, as everybody already said, a matter of love and tolerance.