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Copycats, are they really just mimes?

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That One Halfling

Territorial Wolf

PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 7:20 pm


Pre-Note: All of my info is from my mind & Wiki. Not really good sources but oh well.

Okay, I've been wanting to make this topic for awhile. Why? Well because of the latest events at Virginia tech as well as threats at several schools, I've been thinking that this may be a cause of what, in my mind, I call the Laughing man complex.

First off, lets start with a general description of a Copycat:

Dictionary.com
v. cop·y·cat·ted, cop·y·cat·ting, cop·y·cats

v. intr.
To act as an imitator or mimic.

v. tr.
To imitate closely; mimic.

adj. Closely imitating or following another: a copycat version of a successful product; a copycat crime.


With this in mind, I go back to the recent school shooting of Virginia Tech. Sure it was much worse than Columbine, but those two wern't the first school shootings.

Kent state was one of the first, but it was only second. The first real school shooting was University of Texas at Austin massacre - Austin, Texas, United States; August 1, 1966. Four years before the 'accidnetal' shooting in Kent state.

In the Austin massicre, the killer was "shot dead" by police instead of the killer taking his own life. It seems like there were steps up to where the first school shooter took his own life.

Yet, it seems that they are all copycats of the austin massicre killer, shooting a school. Would you say that this is true? If not please state why.

Also, Laughing man was taken from Ghost in the shell. He was a stand alone hacker who soon had a following of people later in the anime and yet, they all wanted to do what he did on their own free will. Odd, Isn't it?

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 9:04 pm


Well it seems more like they are trying to improve the original with their own "unique" style. Probably for some odd reason such as being notived.
Or to make a statement. There are quite a few possiblities why someone would steal and alter the original version.

Also people might just wish to do the exact same thing to prove a similiar point etc.

However alot of this would have to be pyschologically examined.

I'll finish this post off when i get back right now i am rather tired.

Lotus Requiem


Maeph

PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 9:09 pm


The variables that go into a human making a single decision are too vast and plentiful to comprehend. Especially with cases like these, each individual had ended up in the place that they had because of a long culmination of events.
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 10:30 pm


I don't really see them as being copy-cat crimes, of course there are similarities between the shootings, but that doesn't mean one copied the other.

From the get go, man was a violent creature, we needed to be for survival. You often see people when they get angry screaming things to others a long the line of "I'm going to kill you!", because it's just a primal instinct and how we initially solved our problems.

Now the criminal in the Virginia Tech shooting hated the people around him, and he was very likely aware of what happened at Columbine and that was somewhere at the back of he's mind. Now i haven't researched he Virginia Tech shooting so my idea on how it went down might be false, but this is what I gathered from the news I've watched/read about the incident.

The killer was being counselled when he killed he's (EX?)Girl friend and the Counselor. He then went off, bought something at a store to aid him in what he was about to do, recorded some tapes then went off and killed all the people.

Basically, I didn't need to say that, but it's all in the past now. After he killed the first two people, he realised what was going to happen to him, and he'd probably already previously considered killing people, whether it be on a really basic level, so when he already did it, and knew what would happened, he probably thought about how the people at Columbine did, and thought that he preferred that over any other option that he had at that point. So, in my eyes, he acted on what he had already thought about, but might have been persuaded a little by the events at Columbine, but he didn't actually set out to copy them.

What I just wrote's all Bull sh-t, I'm not happy with it... So you probably shouldn't read it.

Sand From The Future(GTD)


That One Halfling

Territorial Wolf

PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 6:17 am


((and because I am home today for my insides decided to hate me because I had too much hot sauce on my pizza I can type this!))

Even though he might not've thought of himself as a copycat, to me it just seems too similar...then again with threats and all that they technicaly just want to induce panic. (which if I am remembering correctly, is a felony depending on the scale... Dx).
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 8:06 pm


I think having similar crimes is a given, even if people are not intentionally copying one another. People have similar ideas, even when they are not currently "sharing" them. Some psychologists had similar theories at the same time, though they were no where near one another and did not have contact (I don't remember the exact psychologists- it's late, and I haven't been in psychology in three years now sweatdrop ), and it's obvious when reading books that authors share many motifs, most unintentionally.

I don't know how much sense that made- I'm on my way to bed, and it sounded right in my head...

Lady Pica

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MyOwnBestCritic

Dapper Dabbler

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 8:39 pm


Maybe. Or maybe they're just psycho and the voices tell them to kill people. We'll never really know; excellent observations, however.
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2007 6:40 am


They may mimic each others actions, in that essence they are copy-cats. The motivation, to each, however remains personal and unique. The idea suicide as a conclusion to a killing spree is nothing new either. Throughout history as a result of economical depression (such as that of the 1930's) farmers have murdered their families and commited suicide themselves. Why? because they were incapable of providing. This is off topic though. Anyway, the Charles Whitman massacre is similar to, but not the same motive as the most recent school shootings, Columbine and VT. Charles Whitman was mentally ill, he admitted in a letter found on his dead wife that "maybe research can prevent future tragedies like this." His motivation remains unclear to this day expect that he was self-admitting that he wasn't himself recently.

With Columbine and VT the motivation was similar and more correlation can be concluded. Each of these was a result of being "bullied" or "picked on". There is also the connection between Cho and Whitman of mental illness. The Columbine shooters could also probably be considered mentally ill, however, evidence to this end is lacking.

The Problem of Cho:
Neither Whitman nor Harris and Klebold left a message saying "copy me." Cho, to this extent left his "manifesto". This makes him somewhat of an older brother influence for future Harris and Klebolds to follow. Cho knew what he was doing by mailing his package to NBC. He knew that if he mailed it to the police, or some other government authority that it may have been altered or not get the publicity he wanted. The media happily abliged Cho by throwing his manifesto up all over the news and the web. This action will make it so that he will not be doomed to obscurity (as most people couldn't tell you who Charles Whitman is). In the end, Cho's manifesto left an open invitation for copy-cats. Thankfully, we haven't, and hopefully won't, ever see one.

Waya X Adisi


Maku the Dark

Wheezing Smoker

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2007 9:17 am


Perhaps it could be a copycat since he did confess that he wish to be a martyr much like the Columbine kids in his video. With that, it kinda makes me think that his inspiration for the shooting could of been past school shooting, especially with how planned out this attack was. *shrugs* Perhaps though it is an evolution of problem. Perhaps a sign in the change of time, but either way, there is a chance it was copy cat. Though I must note one thing is that most school shooting isn’t just in the US, but Germany had once a bad case as well as another European country. Maybe it’s the culture that is the cause for such an irrational action to occur with narcissistic people who feel they aren’t getting the attention they want. Though yeah, one thing that is common with all school shooting is the fact that the person commit the act is narcissistic and self-centered (as documented by Newsweek). These people believe they are performing a justice to the world by committing these act and will be martyr for the world to appreciate.
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2007 6:43 pm


I actually think these people probably don't care. There's something about killing other people that goes beyond imitating a school shooting. Maybe it just helps reinforce their idea of what reasonable resolution is.

Maybe I'm being optimistic here but does anyone think that such a thing matters to a guy who is willing to kill so many people? I don't think it's nearly the same as hacking mimics or things like it.

Mongler Of Cocks


tatterkin

PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 2:48 am


Are these event really copy cat crimes, there's similarities yes. At the same time there could be similarities drawn between other crimes, but these similarities are compared and concluded after the event: the interpretation is by another person.
The only way to know for sure if these were copy cats would be to ask the perpetrators.
To one extent or another we are all affected by what has happened in the past; event often send ripples back out into society’s people react to what has happened.
To put in an old adage “history repeats itself"

(I'm not sure if I've put what I mean clearly, so I apologize if it makes little sense)
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 7:13 pm


Swamp Sparrow
I think having similar crimes is a given, even if people are not intentionally copying one another. People have similar ideas, even when they are not currently "sharing" them.


Someone can do some crime and know it's been done before without copying them.

It almost like saying that I shouldn't wear pants because it's already been done before and I might be copying.

NonchalantConcern

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