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Violet_Abyss Vice Captain
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 Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 1:10 pm
The Pledge of Allegiance
I Pledge Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands,
one Nation under God,
indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. So, the question is, should we take one Nation under God out of the The Pledge of Allegiance? Quote: The pledge was first written by Francis Bellamy for the Youth’s Companion magazine in 1892, which was selling flags. The Pledge was for their advertising campaign. Such glorious origins! What Bellamy wrote was “I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.” His intentions were to promote obedience to the country. Quote: The next alteration of the wording was the addition of “under God.” This was pushed by the Knights of Columbus. They recited the Pledge before their meetings, and in 1951 added “under God” to their own recitation. They said this is because Lincoln had said the words in his Gettysburg Address and therefore it’s appropriate to add. Actually, Lincoln didn’t say those words. Oh well. So of course, The Knights also tried to get Congress to add it to the official Pledge. The really pivotal moment of this change was on Lincoln Sunday in 1954. Reverend Docherty was giving the sermon and convinced President Eisenhower, who was in attendance, that the addition of “under God” was a good idea. The president immediately got to work with Congress to get a bill passed to accomplish this. The reasons he gave for this change was thus: “In this way we are reaffirming the transcendence of religious faith in America’s heritage and future; in this way we shall constantly strengthen those spiritual weapons which forever will be our country’s most powerful resource in peace and war.” And on June 14, 1954, our country got a lot less secular. Quotes borrowed from here- Do you think that we should take out “one Nation under God”? - If you’re from another country, how do you think that it reflects on the U.S.A? - Do you think it’s just total BS?
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 1:29 pm
Quote: - Do you think that we should take out “one Nation under God”? Honestly, yes we should. The words "Under God" is a serious claim and one that if is not tue could border on blaphemy. Well, it isn't true. America is not under God, at least not anymore. So to leave it in there would be an insult to YHVH and all He stands for.
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Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 12:20 am
I personally think that they shouldn't make an student say the pledge. PERIOD. Especially with so much anti-American propaganda, immigrants, it's something akin to teaching one religion or belief (any, it doesn't matter) but then saying teaching religion isn't aloud. Pointless and for some even offensive. I'm not saying that we should drop our pride for our nation. But the pledge has become like a dinner prayer. Just said because we feel like we have too. If someone feels obligated, good for them. But forcing it, especially on Elementary School kids, is just as offensive as having 'under God' in there.
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Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 5:03 am
It's just kinda weird you're making a promise to a flag.
And it makes God look like a bit of a political gimmick.
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Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 9:03 am
Nemithena It's just kinda weird you're making a promise to a flag.
And it makes God look like a bit of a political gimmick. Well the flag is a symbol of America. Meaning you're pledging allegiance to America. Meaning the government is tricking us into pledging allegiance to a country we will probably move out and that support freedom of beliefs. No wonder we're so screwed up. D: [/satire]
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Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 12:09 pm
Nemithena It's just kinda weird you're making a promise to a flag.
And it makes God look like a bit of a political gimmick. Yeah...I have less of a problem with the "under God" bit than I do with the fact that American schoolchildren worship an inanimate object in a rather militant fashion.
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Violet_Abyss Vice Captain
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Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 1:47 pm
The Apple of His Eye I personally think that they shouldn't make an student say the pledge. PERIOD. Especially with so much anti-American propaganda, immigrants, it's something akin to teaching one religion or belief (any, it doesn't matter) but then saying teaching religion isn't aloud. Pointless and for some even offensive. I'm not saying that we should drop our pride for our nation. But the pledge has become like a dinner prayer. Just said because we feel like we have too. If someone feels obligated, good for them. But forcing it, especially on Elementary School kids, is just as offensive as having 'under God' in there. Where I went to school what I knew was that nobody had to say the pledge, but you had to stand because it was respectful. Which I sort of agree with, although I personally think the whole things is sort of BS.
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Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 7:01 pm
SinfulGuillotine Nemithena It's just kinda weird you're making a promise to a flag.
And it makes God look like a bit of a political gimmick. Yeah...I have less of a problem with the "under God" bit than I do with the fact that American schoolchildren worship an inanimate object in a rather militant fashion. I don't think we really have to worry, "Heil Bush" doesn't have nearly the proper rhythym to it, it'll never catch on.
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Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 7:43 pm
Having "under god" in the pledge is not personally ofensive because i live my life "under god" but i can easily see how it would affect others,
seeing as the entire nation doesn't
therefore i believe that one of two things should happen
a] It should be re-written
b] it should be illegal to force the children of any school, public or private, to recite the plegde
or maybe both
I say the second thing because at my school, although they can't give us a true punishment, per district policy, they often give us more work or keep us after class if we refuse to say the pledge.
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Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 8:06 pm
SpaZZtaSt!C Having "under god" in the pledge is not personally ofensive because i live my life "under god" but i can easily see how it would affect others, seeing as the entire nation doesn't therefore i believe that one of two things should happen a] It should be re-written b] it should be illegal to force the children of any school, public or private, to recite the plegde or maybe both I say the second thing because at my school, although they can't give us a true punishment, per district policy, they often give us more work or keep us after class if we refuse to say the pledge. What?! That's total BS! I bet you could do something about that.
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Violet_Abyss Vice Captain
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Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 1:09 pm
Violet_Abyss - Do you think that we should take out “one Nation under God”? Yes. America is a secular nation, and our national pledge should reflect such. With the current wording, government is endorsing one faith (monotheistic, particularly Christian) above others which is...undesired. It is also somewhat disrespectful to a monotheistic God (particularly Yahweh) seeing as it is outdated propaganda, and is also a slight against those of Communist political /economic affiliation. Quote: - Do you think it’s just total BS? ...it is propaganda. The intention is to inspire pride (by the youth) in America. I can see why it would be beneficial for a nation to have this. So complete BS? No. I'm not sure I'm fond of the idea of a national pledge though, especially when pushed upon the youth.
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Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 1:13 pm
SpaZZtaSt!C Having "under god" in the pledge is not personally ofensive because i live my life "under god" but i can easily see how it would affect others, seeing as the entire nation doesn't therefore i believe that one of two things should happen a] It should be re-written b] it should be illegal to force the children of any school, public or private, to recite the plegde or maybe both I say the second thing because at my school, although they can't give us a true punishment, per district policy, they often give us more work or keep us after class if we refuse to say the pledge. Define 'true punishment' and what do they do when they keep you after class? Merely talk to you, lecture you...? I had a substitute last year and I did not stand for the pledge. He kept me after to discuss with me why I chose not to but his primary concern was my safety, not punishment...?
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Posted: Wed May 02, 2007 2:26 pm
Aino Ailill SpaZZtaSt!C Having "under god" in the pledge is not personally ofensive because i live my life "under god" but i can easily see how it would affect others, seeing as the entire nation doesn't therefore i believe that one of two things should happen a] It should be re-written b] it should be illegal to force the children of any school, public or private, to recite the plegde or maybe both I say the second thing because at my school, although they can't give us a true punishment, per district policy, they often give us more work or keep us after class if we refuse to say the pledge. Define 'true punishment' and what do they do when they keep you after class? Merely talk to you, lecture you...? I had a substitute last year and I did not stand for the pledge. He kept me after to discuss with me why I chose not to but his primary concern was my safety, not punishment...? I mean like a referal to the office or a detention they can't give us a punishment like that because it's against district policy to force us to say the pledge, but some teachers feels strongly about it and make us anyway
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Posted: Wed May 02, 2007 2:52 pm
SpaZZtaSt!C Aino Ailill SpaZZtaSt!C Having "under god" in the pledge is not personally ofensive because i live my life "under god" but i can easily see how it would affect others, seeing as the entire nation doesn't therefore i believe that one of two things should happen a] It should be re-written b] it should be illegal to force the children of any school, public or private, to recite the plegde or maybe both I say the second thing because at my school, although they can't give us a true punishment, per district policy, they often give us more work or keep us after class if we refuse to say the pledge. Define 'true punishment' and what do they do when they keep you after class? Merely talk to you, lecture you...? I had a substitute last year and I did not stand for the pledge. He kept me after to discuss with me why I chose not to but his primary concern was my safety, not punishment...? I mean like a referal to the office or a detention they can't give us a punishment like that because it's against district policy to force us to say the pledge, but some teachers feels strongly about it and make us anyway If it's against district policy couldn't you do something about it? Like, complain to some higher power?
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Violet_Abyss Vice Captain
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Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 5:29 am
I cannot really attend in this discussion, but: I think, the pledge is a lie today.
One nation under God? What about the other religions? Aren't they also Americans?
And this one nation under God thing has the bitter taste of: "We're better than any other nation." sad Better than any other religion or race...
Just my two cents...
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