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Super Ivan Drago Vice Captain
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 Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 10:13 am
Whenever I go into Extended Discussion (a place that is far from what it claims to be) and see Christian threads about homosexuality, it usually breaks down into the Christians saying that A) those parts of the Bible are old and basically "thrown away" or B) I get linked to this massive thread claiming that in the more accurately translated version of the Bible, it says that homosexuality is not forbidden.
Now, I always get linked to that Gaia thread which claims to be proof that homosexuality is not a sin (along with some condescending remarks.) But whenever I read the "real" Bible quotes, I still get the same message. And when I say that, I usually get flamed and then get told that "you are interpreting it the wrong way!"
But if it is open to interpretation, doesn't it mean it's just that? Open to interpretation? And thus the word of God are the words of those who interpret it and thus there is no such thing as a "true" or "bad" Christian?
It makes me wonder how they could even take a stance on anything.
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Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 6:31 pm
It seems like there is a lot of cherry-picking of verses that support particular stances of any given individuals. It happens on both sides of the homosexuality issue. Both tend not to realize how bizarre their stance of "the bible is the word of god except when it isn't" is.
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Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 5:16 pm
If I remember correctly, this was the biggest difference in the Catholic church and the original Protestant church: the Catholics claimed the bible was open to interpretation (only by the pope, who is descended in a direct [non-biological] line from Peter, who was appointed by Jesus himself, aka apostlic sucession) and the Protestants who believed the bible was literal. Of course, later churchs said it was interpreted by person X or organization Y, and it devolved into the 25K plus Christian denominations in the world today.
[Edit: Perhaps someone should add to the fallacies post the ad populum: since a lot of people believe it, it must be true. I don't know how prevalent it is, but in a lot of ED posts on atheism vs. theism the whole 'look how many people believe in some sort of god, they cant all be wrong!' thing comes up too often.]
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Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:13 pm
People who use the argument "The new version says otherwise!" to defend homosexuality as not a sin aren't doing anything that people prior to the KJV version of the bible weren't doing themselves.
However, you do have to consider that the applicable books of the bible are very old. It is (very) possible that you are misinterpreting it by placing the text in a 21st century context. If I called Angelina Jolie "hot" in a book, people 5 centuries in the future would probably think I was referring to her body temperature.
And then, of course, there's the inherent skepticism that should arise when anyone is told "God writes in human language."
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Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 9:36 pm
Who are these guys you're talking with?! Maybe it's where I grew up, but the very Fred Phelps anti-gay sentiment of the Bible is strongly followed by the Christian's I've met. The ideas you're stating here would be coming from people who see the Bible as a complement to their lives, not the ones who build their lives around it because they caught the virus from their parents. According to the bible, homosexuality is a sin, plain and clear. From the KJV - "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." Leviticus 20:12-14 And if these people are saying that the covenant of grace ushered in by Christ changes that, then it alters all sins including robbery, murder, rape, deceit, adultery, bestiality, graven images and even the ghastliest of all sins, shaving!
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Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 9:51 pm
Well, I have taken part in about 3 threads on the subject and have read many others on the subject. And every single one always goes this way- 1) Someone says that homosexuality is wrong according to the bible. 2) A Christian Gaian gets P.O.'d, replies with a condescending comment, then links to this thread. It never fails. It's like clockwork. And that is why I call them "ePopes" and "eTheologians." Because 100% of what they say, despite being on the same side as me (minus the imaginary friend part,) is based on an interpretation. An interpretation that is not guided by evidence or research, but is interpreted though bias and their need to justify their religion while keeping with current trends. And yet, they act as though their interpretation is fact and other Gaians act as though that thread is, well, the bible.
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Super Ivan Drago Vice Captain
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Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 10:49 am
Theo, Christians don't follow Leviticus. That book imposes the death penalty for eating ham. They're not supposed to follow it anyway. They just follow what their sect tells them to follow, because Jesus was too lenient and practically said "there's nothing wrong with anything if you do it out of love."
Also, I live in Texas and almost every Christian I've met loathes the Westboro Baptists, even if they consider homosexuality a sin.
Besides, literal interpretation of that passage in Leviticus only condemns bisexual orgies.
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Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 7:11 pm
Well, to give some perspective, I was a Christian for many years in a conservative Baptist church in Texas.
I traveled the Southern US with them, so my exposure to Christianity may be reds state/roadkill Christian influenced. I've met, before, during and after, many moderate and even liberal Christians.
Still, the thing I was pointing to was the colossal, vast, gaping differences between what the Bible says and what people wish it said.
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Super Ivan Drago Vice Captain
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Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:11 pm
From my personal experience, a great deal of Christians who hate homosexuality feel that way do to personal fear/bias, and then hide behind the bible for an excuse. Spewing hate against gays without a mention of the bible... until they are asked why it should matter to them. Then they start quoting the bible like it's their own personal deus ex machina.
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Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:46 pm
A very accurate portrayal.
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Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 10:57 pm
Theophrastus Well, to give some perspective, I was a Christian for many years in a conservative Baptist church in Texas. I traveled the Southern US with them, so my exposure to Christianity may be reds state/roadkill Christian influenced. I've met, before, during and after, many moderate and even liberal Christians. Still, the thing I was pointing to was the colossal, vast, gaping differences between what the Bible says and what people wish it said. Honestly, the bible could stand some updating. Christianity has been pandering to society since the beginning and it's worked so well that I'm not sure why they would want to stop. I mean, that they have no original holidays is pretty telling to the religion's willingness to ignore its past out of a desire for more donations. Also: I, too was a Texan conservative baptist. I wish I could get a do-over on those years.
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Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:09 pm
Honestly, I feel it helped me gain a lot of perspective on society, and I'm sure that, as I rose through the ranks (I held a notable position in the church at one point), I learned some good skills.
Given, it's nothing you couldn't pick up through any other social group with a formalized structure, but if nothing else, all those years help me remember just why I am an Atheist, a liberal and a happy person.
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