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Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 3:10 pm
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Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 4:30 pm
Don't you wanna come with me? Don't you wanna feel my bones on your bones? It's only natural.
I remember debating this topic for at least two or three days in high school. @___@
Jesus was God. Therefore, he couldn't sin. Jesus was Man. Therefore, he could sin. So... Put the two together and you get that he could sin but didn't/couldn't. Which is rather contradictory but I think the whole issue itself is trifles and is pointless debate to raise hackles.
Don't you wanna swim with me? Don't you wanna feel my skin on your skin? It's only natural.
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Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 4:32 pm
Kari Seregon Don't you wanna come with me? Don't you wanna feel my bones on your bones? It's only natural.
I remember debating this topic for at least two or three days in high school. @___@
Jesus was God. Therefore, he couldn't sin. Jesus was Man. Therefore, he could sin. So... Put the two together and you get that he could sin but didn't/couldn't. Which is rather contradictory but I think the whole issue itself is trifles and is pointless debate to raise hackles.
Don't you wanna swim with me? Don't you wanna feel my skin on your skin? It's only natural. it is still an interesting topic to discuss, not necessarily debate.
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Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 6:26 pm
WOW! Awesome topic! This never really ever crossed my mind as a possibility! biggrin This is just fantastic! :3 A real brain teaser. Hmmm, from what I've read of Christ and of God. He made us in his image, we have emotions and God has emotions. Anger, love, sadness all that jazz. But he can't sin because sinning is basically doing something that is unholy, unholy being something against God's will. The simplest way I can put it, if God was to say look lustful on someone (which is impossible as we all know) lustful looking wouldn't be sin anymore would it? Because it wouldn't be out of his will therefore as he did it he wouldn't of sinned? Right? That make sense doesn't it? A scripture example of that was eating the fruit of the knew of the knowledge of good and evil. It was sin to eat the fruit simple because it was outside of God will. But because God is the same all the time, he can't change his will simple because his the same I believe that God exists in all states of time. He doesn't know how many times a girl going to break your heart because he can see into the future rather his at the future. Scripture I am at the end and at the beginning. Now, as for Jesus on earth, he couldn't sin because to sin would to be changing God orginal will because he was God with us. But he could be tempted because Satan was the GREAT tempter. And it's his weapon against us. Quote: Tempt: 1. to entice or allure to do something often regarded as unwise, wrong, or immoral. 2. to attract, appeal strongly to, or invite: The offer tempts me. 3. to render strongly disposed to do something: The book tempted me to read more on the subject. 4. to put (someone) to the test in a venturesome way; provoke: to tempt one's fate. 5. Obsolete. to try or test. All of them look as if it more TRYING to do stuff. To try entice or allure, to try and attract or appeal strongly to. It all trying not doing, if I was to try and tempt you to buy my car but you didn't what I was doing was tempting regardless of what you choose. Jesus had emotions, and was outside the perfectness of heaven, it was quiet possible for satan to attack (tempt) him. Doesn't mean he would of ever succeeded but he STILL tried to tempted him. Therefore Jesus went through what we go through.
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Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 9:56 pm
Quote: Now, as for Jesus on earth, he couldn't sin because to sin would to be changing God orginal will because he was God with us. But he could be tempted because Satan was the GREAT tempter. And it's his weapon against us. but how could He have been tempted if He was God? Christ would've known all things, and wouldn't that have allowed Him to see through Satan's lies and disallow Him to be tempted?
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Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:03 pm
Type Text Here Now, as for Jesus on earth, he couldn't sin because to sin would to be changing God orginal will because he was God with us. But he could be tempted because Satan was the GREAT tempter. And it's his weapon against us. Though Satan would only tempt men. He is man's adversary, though he is no adversary of God's. He acts only with YHVH's permission. Though there's the issue. If Jesus was both God and a man, Satan would not have tried to tempt him, but he would at the same time... The only logical explainations I can give for Satan attempting to tempt Jesus is: 1) Jesus was always a man, and not God--at least during his lifespan he was not God. 2) The "Father" had Satan work to tempt the "son" as a test of faith, for that "man" aspect of him made him likely to sin. Though, Jesus passed that test, and may have very well been God in this case.
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Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 12:06 am
PirateEire Type Text Here Now, as for Jesus on earth, he couldn't sin because to sin would to be changing God orginal will because he was God with us. But he could be tempted because Satan was the GREAT tempter. And it's his weapon against us. Though Satan would only tempt men. He is man's adversary, though he is no adversary of God's. He acts only with YHVH's permission. Though there's the issue. If Jesus was both God and a man, Satan would not have tried to tempt him, but he would at the same time... The only logical explainations I can give for Satan attempting to tempt Jesus is: 1) Jesus was always a man, and not God--at least during his lifespan he was not God. 2) The "Father" had Satan work to tempt the "son" as a test of faith, for that "man" aspect of him made him likely to sin. Though, Jesus passed that test, and may have very well been God in this case. Ohhhh the plot thickens ^_^; Both you and burnination basically said the same thing. Well I still think that being tempting and being tempted are very different, maybe it was a case of satan thinking "I better at least give it a shot?" I mean he doesn't know everything to my knowledge. Also it couldn't of been really Jesus being man on earth cause he says he is the father a few times -- maybe it was that he was God made flesh that made it so, being in sin all the time and not having the full power of God flowing through him, thus satan wanted to at least try. It's intresting, I gotta' a bit of a brain block right now so sorry for nothing more than stupidity. x.x
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Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 7:44 am
Type Text Here PirateEire Type Text Here Now, as for Jesus on earth, he couldn't sin because to sin would to be changing God orginal will because he was God with us. But he could be tempted because Satan was the GREAT tempter. And it's his weapon against us. Though Satan would only tempt men. He is man's adversary, though he is no adversary of God's. He acts only with YHVH's permission. Though there's the issue. If Jesus was both God and a man, Satan would not have tried to tempt him, but he would at the same time... The only logical explainations I can give for Satan attempting to tempt Jesus is: 1) Jesus was always a man, and not God--at least during his lifespan he was not God. 2) The "Father" had Satan work to tempt the "son" as a test of faith, for that "man" aspect of him made him likely to sin. Though, Jesus passed that test, and may have very well been God in this case. Ohhhh the plot thickens ^_^; Both you and burnination basically said the same thing. Well I still think that being tempting and being tempted are very different, maybe it was a case of satan thinking "I better at least give it a shot?" I mean he doesn't know everything to my knowledge. Also it couldn't of been really Jesus being man on earth cause he says he is the father a few times -- maybe it was that he was God made flesh that made it so, being in sin all the time and not having the full power of God flowing through him, thus satan wanted to at least try. It's intresting, I gotta' a bit of a brain block right now so sorry for nothing more than stupidity. x.x Though Satan can only act by YHVH's permission. So, would God have given him permission to attempt to tempt his fleshy incarnation?
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Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:22 am
PirateEire Though Satan can only act by YHVH's permission. So, would God have given him permission to attempt to tempt his fleshy incarnation? that depends on what you mean by permission. in Job Satan comes up to Heaven to challenge God on the subject of whether or not His servants serve Him simply because they get something out of it. it wouldn't be very wise to say this happens in the case of every little thing that Satan wants to do, but at the same time Satan is still in the will of God in every thing it does. this may mean that God simply let Satan do his thing on the Son. i'm not sure if you were implying that Satan went up to God and said "yo God, can i tempt your Son?" and God gave a stamp of approval. if you weren't, then i just wasted a paragraph. Christ had two natures: a fleshly nature (Romans 8:3) and a God nature (John 1:1). how these two natures interacted, one can only speculate. Christ's God nature disallowed Him to be tempted, for James 1 says that God tempts no one and He cannot be tempted by sin. but on the flipside, obviously man is tempted by sin. so is it possible that His fleshly nature was tempted, but His God nature completely disallowed Him from being tempted? if so, then was He still tempted?
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Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:46 am
i like burnination i'm not sure if you were implying that Satan went up to God and said "yo God, can i tempt your Son?" and God gave a stamp of approval. if you weren't, then i just wasted a paragraph. Naw, I was thinking more of a: Satan: YHVH, your son can't really be your son nor you... YHVH: Ur, well, he is. Deal. Satan: I don't believe it. He's just some man. YHVH: Wanna bet? Satan: Hellz yeeaahh. We'll see if he's really you and your son. I'm gonna go and mess with him now. YHVH: Whatever. Enjoy being completely embarassed when I say I told you so. (Look! Consent!) Satan: Psh, whatever. YHVH: Go away now.
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Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:56 am
PirateEire i like burnination i'm not sure if you were implying that Satan went up to God and said "yo God, can i tempt your Son?" and God gave a stamp of approval. if you weren't, then i just wasted a paragraph. Naw, I was thinking more of a: Satan: YHVH, your son can't really be your son nor you... YHVH: Ur, well, he is. Deal. Satan: I don't believe it. He's just some man. YHVH: Wanna bet? Satan: Hellz yeeaahh. We'll see if he's really you and your son. I'm gonna go and mess with him now. YHVH: Whatever. Enjoy being completely embarassed when I say I told you so. (Look! Consent!) Satan: Psh, whatever. YHVH: Go away now. so in the same vein of when Satan challenges God in Job, yeah?
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Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 12:15 pm
i like burnination PirateEire i like burnination i'm not sure if you were implying that Satan went up to God and said "yo God, can i tempt your Son?" and God gave a stamp of approval. if you weren't, then i just wasted a paragraph. Naw, I was thinking more of a: Satan: YHVH, your son can't really be your son nor you... YHVH: Ur, well, he is. Deal. Satan: I don't believe it. He's just some man. YHVH: Wanna bet? Satan: Hellz yeeaahh. We'll see if he's really you and your son. I'm gonna go and mess with him now. YHVH: Whatever. Enjoy being completely embarassed when I say I told you so. (Look! Consent!) Satan: Psh, whatever. YHVH: Go away now. so in the same vein of when Satan challenges God in Job, yeah? Pretty much, because Satan, unlike YVHV is not all knowing and he does have doubt as an imperfect being--especially when it comes to mankind. He doubted Job's faith and was wrong, just as he doubted Jesus's divinity and was wrong.
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Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 2:22 am
PirateEire i like burnination PirateEire i like burnination i'm not sure if you were implying that Satan went up to God and said "yo God, can i tempt your Son?" and God gave a stamp of approval. if you weren't, then i just wasted a paragraph. Naw, I was thinking more of a: Satan: YHVH, your son can't really be your son nor you... YHVH: Ur, well, he is. Deal. Satan: I don't believe it. He's just some man. YHVH: Wanna bet? Satan: Hellz yeeaahh. We'll see if he's really you and your son. I'm gonna go and mess with him now. YHVH: Whatever. Enjoy being completely embarassed when I say I told you so. (Look! Consent!) Satan: Psh, whatever. YHVH: Go away now. so in the same vein of when Satan challenges God in Job, yeah? Pretty much, because Satan, unlike YVHV is not all knowing and he does have doubt as an imperfect being--especially when it comes to mankind. He doubted Job's faith and was wrong, just as he doubted Jesus's divinity and was wrong. I agree here, I do think he just wanted to give it a shot, he probable saw it better to atleast try. XD But I think the Godly nature in Jesus always overcame no-matter what, or we wouldn't have a sinner sacrifice. ^_^; =o I don't think he was tempted. To the point of it being possible that he would falter into it, but I still think Satan atempted to, but the God in him overcame, therefore Jesus can say his faced temptation and won so stop complaining about it and overcome it like I did.
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Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 7:09 am
Type Text Here PirateEire i like burnination PirateEire i like burnination i'm not sure if you were implying that Satan went up to God and said "yo God, can i tempt your Son?" and God gave a stamp of approval. if you weren't, then i just wasted a paragraph. Naw, I was thinking more of a: Satan: YHVH, your son can't really be your son nor you... YHVH: Ur, well, he is. Deal. Satan: I don't believe it. He's just some man. YHVH: Wanna bet? Satan: Hellz yeeaahh. We'll see if he's really you and your son. I'm gonna go and mess with him now. YHVH: Whatever. Enjoy being completely embarassed when I say I told you so. (Look! Consent!) Satan: Psh, whatever. YHVH: Go away now. so in the same vein of when Satan challenges God in Job, yeah? Pretty much, because Satan, unlike YVHV is not all knowing and he does have doubt as an imperfect being--especially when it comes to mankind. He doubted Job's faith and was wrong, just as he doubted Jesus's divinity and was wrong. I agree here, I do think he just wanted to give it a shot, he probable saw it better to atleast try. XD But I think the Godly nature in Jesus always overcame no-matter what, or we wouldn't have a sinner sacrifice. ^_^; =o I don't think he was tempted. To the point of it being possible that he would falter into it, but I still think Satan atempted to, but the God in him overcame, therefore Jesus can say his faced temptation and won so stop complaining about it and overcome it like I did. I think it might be a statement as well that Jesus as a man was able to resist temptation from Satan--and that human beings very well could resist said temptation too, if they are faithful enough. The man in Jesus is what people relate to, whereas the God in Jesus is what people respect and revere. So, you've got a role model, and an effective object of worship. Blah. Babble.
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Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 8:13 am
i like burnination Kari Seregon Don't you wanna come with me? Don't you wanna feel my bones on your bones? It's only natural.
I remember debating this topic for at least two or three days in high school. @___@
Jesus was God. Therefore, he couldn't sin. Jesus was Man. Therefore, he could sin. So... Put the two together and you get that he could sin but didn't/couldn't. Which is rather contradictory but I think the whole issue itself is trifles and is pointless debate to raise hackles.
Don't you wanna swim with me? Don't you wanna feel my skin on your skin? It's only natural. it is still an interesting topic to discuss, not necessarily debate. Don't you wanna come with me? Don't you wanna feel my bones on your bones? It's only natural.
Yessir, that's true. But sometimes people are so set in their thinking that they refuse to budge for the other opinion... and a fight ensues!
Don't you wanna swim with me? Don't you wanna feel my skin on your skin? It's only natural.
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