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 Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 7:53 am
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Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:45 am
So it's okay to kill people if you anesthetize them first? I predict black market sales of midazolam and fentanyl will skyrocket.
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Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:58 am
La Veuve Zin So it's okay to kill people if you anesthetize them first? I predict black market sales of midazolam and fentanyl will skyrocket. No, it is NOT all right to kill people if you anesthetize them. Maybe I just didn't make a clear argument (that happens a lot). I'm saying that saying fetuses don't feel pain is not a good argument because no one knows. I will say that since abortion is legal (at the moment), fetuses should be anesthetized before abortion. Let me just say here that I am totally pro-life, with the only exception being the mother's life. O_o And I use the word say entirely too much....
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Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 10:34 am
Thats my question. "A fetus cant feel pain."
"Why does that matter?"
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Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 10:43 am
dude, i agree, but i also see her point.
It's rather sadistic to say the least to kill something that might feel pain whithout giving it some painkillers first.
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Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 10:44 am
Pain doesn't matter, some people on both sides that I know say that abortion isn't good if the fetuses feel pain, or that abortion is good because it won't feel pain, but many times they're the same people who couldn't care less about the agony a baby goes through when it's being circumcised because it won't remember... will the fetus remember?
Anyway, the point is that abortion kills, it won't feel pain once it's dead... what matters is that it's eliminated, and it doesn't get to choose. It loses 80 or more years of existance on Earth, so whether or not it feels pain doesn't bother me as much as that. How can anyone even bring up pain when a life's being taken away?
Also, I do care that it hurts so much, but I can't believe people would say it's okay to kill something because it can't feel. sweatdrop
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Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:51 am
MiNdCaNdY dude, i agree, but i also see her point. It's rather sadistic to say the least to kill something that might feel pain whithout giving it some painkillers first. Exactly. Nothing, NOTHING, can ever make up for depriving a fetus of its life, I agree totally with that. I'm just sickened at the thought that they might suffer agony in the process of being killed. Serial killers are treated more humanely than that.
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Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 4:28 pm
  I understand the feeling, and I agree with you...except that administering the painkillers can cause pain as well, maybe as much, maybe even more than a quick death. We don't know if it would help, or if it would make it worse.
I know you don't mean it's okay at all to kill, but many people don't think it even matters if they can feel pain. 
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Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:31 pm
O_o People used to feel that way about animals too, but fortunately we've progressed beyond that. I guess the painkillers could cause pain, depending on how they're administered. I guess the only way to avoid the problem altogether is simply not to abort... smile
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Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:22 pm
Winged Isis La Veuve Zin So it's okay to kill people if you anesthetize them first? I predict black market sales of midazolam and fentanyl will skyrocket. No, it is NOT all right to kill people if you anesthetize them. Maybe I just didn't make a clear argument (that happens a lot). No, no, hon, you just didn't catch my sarcasm. wink I agree, just because a fetus might not be able to feel pain does not make it okay to kill them.
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Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:00 am
La Veuve Zin Winged Isis La Veuve Zin So it's okay to kill people if you anesthetize them first? I predict black market sales of midazolam and fentanyl will skyrocket. No, it is NOT all right to kill people if you anesthetize them. Maybe I just didn't make a clear argument (that happens a lot). No, no, hon, you just didn't catch my sarcasm. wink I agree, just because a fetus might not be able to feel pain does not make it okay to kill them. Ah. Sorry about that. Without visual or vocal clues, sometimes I miss sarcasm. I really think that the fact that fetuses may actually FEEL pain makes abortion even worse, myself.
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Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 8:27 pm
I dont confused
Heres why. I dont clsaify the weight of life by how much pain it can feel, how much it can think, how advanced it is, what it looks like. These are superficial to me. All life is equal as far as I'm concerned.
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Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 9:30 pm
I think it does make it worse simply because it's less humane. A tomato is alive. Corn is alive. Lettuce is alive. But they feel no pain, and that is what makes me willing to kill and eat them without any ethical dilemmas.
There are humane and inhumane ways to do things when you set out to kill things...and I mean that in terms of, more humane than if done a different way, not, it's totally humane to kill as long as it's done a certain way. If someone is going to cut off my leg against my will, I'd much rather that person drug me so that I can't feel it than make me feel the pain while it's happening. Either way I don't want to lose my leg, but one way it's less agonizing.
It's just my point of view, though.
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Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 5:52 pm
.::Ebony says::. I don't think that the question of whether or not the fetus can feel pain justifies, in any way, shape, or form, the abortion process.
No matter how it's carried out, the end is going to be the same for the child. One option is less humane than the other, yes, in the sense that the child won't be writhing in pain as it gets torn apart. But that's just the option, while it's happening.
The end is still the same.
I agree that there is a humane and an inhumane way of killing animals for food. Because, well, it's for food. It's for survival. (Assuming you're like Pyro and literally can't live without meat.)
Abortion shouldn't be a necessity, like eating meat is. S'just what I think.
Anyway, back on topic ...
Pyro basically summarized my views in a smaller block of text.
"The fetus can't feel pain."
"So?" .::[/Ebony]::.
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Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:05 pm
No one's saying it makes it okay to any degree.
Like I said, it's not humane. It's just less humane to purposely cause a painful death, as opposed to purposely causing a painless death. Death is bad either way. But consider that just as meat is only necessary in rare cases, abortion is necessary in rare cases as well. In those cases, is it better that the death be painful or painless? Which one feels more humane? If something really is necessary, like killing animals for food (in cases like Pyro's), then why does it matter if the animal is killed in a painful or painless matter?
In the same regard, people who view elective abortion as necessary...is it better for it to be painful or painless? If it doesn't matter then, why does it matter in the case of animals? It won't make the death part any better in BOTH cases. It'll only make it more comfortable. So why is it less humane for an animal to die a painful death so that people can eat meat (when they need to or when they don't need to and just want to) but equal in the case of humans?
It sounds weird to me, to say it's less humane to have a painful death in animals than it is in humans. It sounds like animal comfort is more important than human comfort.
I was serious about the leg thing. If someone was cutting my leg off, I'd cry, "The least you can do is make it as painless as possible!" It doesn't make it okay that my leg is being taken off. It just makes it easier on me. Is it more disgusting when a murderer kills someone with a quick shot to the head, or a long and painful process involving mutilation while the victim is alive and feeling everything? Both cases bring the same end, but which one is more sadistic? Which one causes more suffering? Are they equal?
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