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 Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 3:14 pm
sweatdrop hee hee hee, What a title right?
Anyway, I' know I'm not the only one here who's probably noticed the costant fight between gaian's and their religions and beielf and ponit of riipping peoples head's off.
AND I KNOW I'm not the only one who wants to find a way to put an end to this.
But the thing is, most of us want to reach them with God, but, with all gaian's being as stubborn as we are ((lol))
We can never come to an agreement, compromise, truse, ect... mrgreen
So I wunna find some people who wunna help me out here on reaching some ^^
I've strated to go around the forms to talk about it, but I'm not starting anything yet.
SO if ya wunna help me plz post, and we'll try to get something together so we can at least calm stuff down, or altar ppls opinions ^^
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Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 6:39 pm
One of my favorite quotes: "Do not seek to save."
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Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 7:35 pm
aaahhh Y.Y
but i have so many friends that r not christian, so i find that being kind to them can even get them to go to chursh w/ me..
So maybeh if i can get more ppl to help meh out and stuff we can at least change ppls opinions
((but don't get me worng, i kno where ur coming from ^^, and actully agree sweatdrop , i just feel like i should at least try to do something))
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Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 10:36 pm
My policy of evangelism (in life as well as on Gaia) is that people are more likely to see God's love through you actions that through a speech. I am myself on Gaia...I don't hide what I believe, I can back it up as much as possible...but it comes down to relationship. I want people to come to God. But it is hard for many to see my intentions towards them are good and genuine online. I'm just myself. and it can and has sparked interesting conversations....God has given me some divine Gaian appointments, you could say. wink
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Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 11:33 pm
Draycore One of my favorite quotes: "Do not seek to save." ... what crackpot said that? o___o;
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Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 7:44 am
i like burnination Draycore One of my favorite quotes: "Do not seek to save." ... what crackpot said that? o___o; I don't remember, but I fully support the concept. IMHO, you shouldn't seek people to save them. Walking up to somebody to try and convert them to what you believe seems to be rather rude, and even sort of conceited in my opinion. A.) It his highly possible that they have their own beliefs B.) Even if they don't, who's to say want to hear yours... I don't walk up to gay people and try to make them straight, why would I walk up to a Jew and try and make them Christian? C.) Who's to say you're right anyways... Saul of Tarsus (sp?) thought he was doing the right thing too. Rather, I think you should seek people in the spirit of love. Love people, teach them love, and if you're actually loving the way God meant for you to love, I think people will ask you of their own free will, without you having to impose anything other than love on them.
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Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 2:59 pm
Draycore I don't remember, but I fully support the concept. IMHO, you shouldn't seek people to save them. Walking up to somebody to try and convert them to what you believe seems to be rather rude, and even sort of conceited in my opinion. ah, there's a thing called the Great Commission, spoken by Jesus. "Go out into all the world and preach the Gospel, in Judea, and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth" (might've gotten the places mixed up, but that's besides the point). He commanded us to preach the gospel to people. whether by our life or our words, it is necessary. Paul (who was once Saul of Tarsus) said, "Woe is me if I do not preach the Gospel!" (1 Cor. 9:16). the word used here in the Greek means "to announce good tidings", and i'm pretty sure "announce" implies spoken word. Draycore A.) It his highly possible that they have their own beliefs everyone has beliefs. we have beliefs. there is not a single person in the world that does not subscribe to some sort of world view, i.e. "beliefs". Draycore B.) Even if they don't, who's to say want to hear yours... I don't walk up to gay people and try to make them straight, why would I walk up to a Jew and try and make them Christian? comparing being gay to being a Christian is like comparing apples to oranges, so i hardly see how the analogy works in this situation. Draycore C.) Who's to say you're right anyways... Saul of Tarsus (sp?) thought he was doing the right thing too. right when it comes to what? my faith? because i know that that's right. or do you mean witnessing? then one just has to obey the Spirit of God within oneself and do what He wills. Draycore Rather, I think you should seek people in the spirit of love. Love people, teach them love, and if you're actually loving the way God meant for you to love, I think people will ask you of their own free will, without you having to impose anything other than love on them i completely agree. but who's to say that witnessing through words is not done in the spirit of love? i know many, MANY Christians who go out street witnessing with a genuine heart full of love for the unsaved without a selfish desire in their heart.
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Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 12:14 am
The bickering is not going to stop, and proselytizing will only fuel the fire. There are forums that exist solely to debate on religion on Gaia, where proselytizing constantly is a banable offense.
I know of no non-Christians, personally, who have been moved by a speech enough to have their entire belief structure crumble, and reconstruct itself.
Note, that a lot of people simply do not believe in God, nor Jesus. Belief is not chosen. Proselytizing is about as useful as meandering into someone's yard-party barbeque type thing and preaching the evils of meat, as well as promoting vegatarianism. People's tastes will not just suddenly change.
If you want to proselytize, please refrain from doing so in the wrong forums, at the very least. Stay as far as possible from Extended Discussion, try to keep some distance from General Discussion, and have fun in the chatterbox.
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Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 12:20 am
i like burnination Draycore B.) Even if they don't, who's to say want to hear yours... I don't walk up to gay people and try to make them straight, why would I walk up to a Jew and try and make them Christian? comparing being gay to being a Christian is like comparing apples to oranges, so i hardly see how the analogy works in this situation. The analogy is appropriate. He was not comparing homosexuality and Christianity--he was comparing Judaism to homosexuality. Certainly, they are still unrelated... but that's what an analogy is. You won't run into many analogies that are not like apples to oranges. i like burnination Draycore C.) Who's to say you're right anyways... Saul of Tarsus (sp?) thought he was doing the right thing too. right when it comes to what? my faith? because i know that that's right. or do you mean witnessing? then one just has to obey the Spirit of God within oneself and do what He wills. Belief alone is not means of proof. You cannot possibly provide solid evidence for the existence of God, nor the "truth" of Christian scriptures without avoiding a multitude of logical fallacies. In this case, you use anecdotal evidence, and an appeal to belief. It is unknown as to whether or not Christianity is "right."
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Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 12:56 am
PirateEire Belief alone is not means of proof. You cannot possibly provide solid evidence for the existence of God, nor the "truth" of Christian scriptures without avoiding a multitude of logical fallacies. In this case, you use anecdotal evidence, and an appeal to belief. It is unknown as to whether or not Christianity is "right." did i say that belief was a means of proof? no. so basically all we are left with from that is "You cannot possibly provide solid evidence for the existence of God, nor the 'truth' or Christian scriptures without avoiding a multitude of logical fallacies." at this point i'd like to see what exactly these "logical fallacies" are and how they correspond with Christian apologetics. PirateEire The analogy is appropriate. He was not comparing homosexuality and Christianity--he was comparing Judaism to homosexuality. Certainly, they are still unrelated... but that's what an analogy is. You won't run into many analogies that are not like apples to oranges. my mistake. but my point was that faith and a sexual preference have little to nothing in common, and therefore the analogy doesn't work because telling someone to stop being gay is different than witnessing to someone. and granted, proselytizing is different IRL than on a forum, and frankly i prefer the former, simply because it's harder for the person to not give thought to what one has said.
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Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 5:10 am
i like burnination did i say that belief was a means of proof? no. so basically all we are left with from that is "You cannot possibly provide solid evidence for the existence of God, nor the 'truth' or Christian scriptures without avoiding a multitude of logical fallacies." at this point i'd like to see what exactly these "logical fallacies" are and how they correspond with Christian apologetics. They're the exact fallacies that require you to have faith in God, instead of just knowing He's there. i like burnination my mistake. but my point was that faith and a sexual preference have little to nothing in common, and therefore the analogy doesn't work because telling someone to stop being gay is different than witnessing to someone. and granted, proselytizing is different IRL than on a forum, and frankly i prefer the former, simply because it's harder for the person to not give thought to what one has said. First, I didn't mean to imply "telling" someone to be straight. The point of the analogy was that it's not your place to tell someone how to live their life. I wouldn't walk up to someone that is homosexual and tell them that I think they should be heterosexual because that's just how I am, why would I tell a Jew that I think they should be Christian because that's just how I am? Maybe if I reflected my Christian ways through actions of love, the Jew would consider becoming Christian simply because s/he sees how it affects me. For people that feel strongly about what they believe (which brings us back to point A, I thought it was assumed, but it doesn't seem that you took it that way) spiritually, saying you believe differently means that to some extent, to some degree, you believe that at some point, about at least one thing, that they are wrong (in the proper context). And back up to point C, there is no way for you to know that they are not right. Proselytizing (my new favorite word) to those people of firm beliefs, is rather rude and imposing, in my opinion. Now I'm not saying that sharing the word of God with people that have been deprived of his teachings is a bad thing. I'm all for preaching to those who don't know. And I believe those were the type of people that Jesus was talking about in those scriptures you were speaking of. But speaking to people that have made their own decision about what they believe is true, whether it be a form of Christianity, Judaism, Muslim, etc, should have their opinions respected, in my opinion.
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Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 8:24 am
i like burnination PirateEire Belief alone is not means of proof. You cannot possibly provide solid evidence for the existence of God, nor the "truth" of Christian scriptures without avoiding a multitude of logical fallacies. In this case, you use anecdotal evidence, and an appeal to belief. It is unknown as to whether or not Christianity is "right." did i say that belief was a means of proof? no. so basically all we are left with from that is "You cannot possibly provide solid evidence for the existence of God, nor the 'truth' or Christian scriptures without avoiding a multitude of logical fallacies." at this point i'd like to see what exactly these "logical fallacies" are and how they correspond with Christian apologetics. As I said--there are a multitude of logical fallacies you could run into when proselytizing any belief, or lack thereof. Hard atheists run into the same exact problem. I cannot possibly give each and every single one to you, because they are innumerous. Boulded are the couple of fallacies you've already used in the duration of this thread. I have heard plenty of them arguing the existence of God as well. Strawmen, ad hominems, false dilemmas, poisoning the well, gambler's fallacies, and appeals to fear, belief, emotion, tradition, popularity, authority, and common practice. Point is, as no evidence exists for the existence of God, nor the infallibility of the Bible, those things cannot be absolutely proven. Similarly, no counter-evidence exists, and it is therefore also impossible to disprove the existence of God. Which brings us back to Draycore's point: "Who's to say you're right." You aren't right simply because you believe you're right. It is pretentious to go around claiming that you are, and all non-Christians are wrong. What's right for you may not be right for them.
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Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 11:03 pm
PirateEire i like burnination PirateEire Belief alone is not means of proof. You cannot possibly provide solid evidence for the existence of God, nor the "truth" of Christian scriptures without avoiding a multitude of logical fallacies. In this case, you use anecdotal evidence, and an appeal to belief. It is unknown as to whether or not Christianity is "right." did i say that belief was a means of proof? no. so basically all we are left with from that is "You cannot possibly provide solid evidence for the existence of God, nor the 'truth' or Christian scriptures without avoiding a multitude of logical fallacies." at this point i'd like to see what exactly these "logical fallacies" are and how they correspond with Christian apologetics. As I said--there are a multitude of logical fallacies you could run into when proselytizing any belief, or lack thereof. Hard atheists run into the same exact problem. I cannot possibly give each and every single one to you, because they are innumerous. Boulded are the couple of fallacies you've already used in the duration of this thread. I have heard plenty of them arguing the existence of God as well. Strawmen, ad hominems, false dilemmas, poisoning the well, gambler's fallacies, and appeals to fear, belief, Point is, as no evidence exists for the existence of God, nor the infallibility of the Bible, those things cannot be absolutely proven. Similarly, no counter-evidence exists, and it is therefore also impossible to disprove the existence of God. Which brings us back to Draycore's point: "Who's to say you're right." You aren't right simply because you believe you're right. It is pretentious to go around claiming that you are, and all non-Christians are wrong. What's right for you may not be right for them. I love you! You seem to have a very good understanding of the scriptures point even being atheist. I understand exactly what you are saying. But, It is written in the Bible that preaching is a duty of ours. And this is not saying that we are to go around and to tell people they are wrong but we are to try to share the good news with the world around us like the Apostles did. If we do get into a Debate with someone what we should say when they ask us questions is "what I believe....Etc." and then we can give evidence to support our claim. We should never us the words when someone makes a statement of what they belive, No or wrong. WE just should continue to listen to the person no matter how wrong we truly believe them to be in our heart. Like they could say something like "Joseph stalin was the messiah." and have no proof and we are to say " well I believe Jesus was the messiah and this is why i believe so...etc" And for the person who quoted dont go look for people to save, If this were so, Why Did Jesus say, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation" in Mark 16:15? I believe if Christians had this point of view, We would be missing half the new Testament. If this were true the Apostles would have never preached to Rome and Corinth or any of the other nations and we wouldnt be sitting here discussing this.
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Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 11:06 pm
Draycore But speaking to people that have made their own decision about what they believe is true, whether it be a form of Christianity, Judaism, Muslim, etc, should have their opinions respected, in my opinion. that, my friend, is a troublesome bug i like to call "apathy". to me, witnessing is like telling someone to put on a parachute because the airplane they're in is going to crash. would you not offer a parachute someone simply because they think the airplane will not crash? an evangelist by the name of Ray Comfort once received a letter from a hardcore atheist attacking him, simply because he was not doing all he could to reach the unsaved, which to the atheist meant that Comfort did not truly believe his faith was real. and why should we stop at just telling people who've never heard the Gospel? to use my airplane analogy again, why should we only tell people who've never heard of parachutes? PirateEire You aren't right simply because you believe you're right. It is pretentious to go around claiming that you are, and all non-Christians are wrong. What's right for you may not be right for them. must i say it again? i'm not using my zealousness for my faith as a defense for Christianity, because then what makes me different from the lunatic in the mental ward who believes the whole world is out to get him? very little, i'd say. i was simply stating that i know my belief to be right, NOT (emphasis being on "not") using it in an apologetic sense, that is, as an "appeal to belief". and basically, i don't subscribe to the idea of relativism, moral or otherwise, except of course in matters of opinion, such as whether or not it's a nice day outside.
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Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 11:23 pm
i like burnination Draycore But speaking to people that have made their own decision about what they believe is true, whether it be a form of Christianity, Judaism, Muslim, etc, should have their opinions respected, in my opinion. that, my friend, is a troublesome bug i like to call "apathy". to me, witnessing is like telling someone to put on a parachute because the airplane they're in is going to crash. would you not offer a parachute someone simply because they think the airplane will not crash? an evangelist by the name of Ray Comfort once received a letter from a hardcore atheist attacking him, simply because he was not doing all he could to reach the unsaved, which to the atheist meant that Comfort did not truly believe his faith was real. and why should we stop at just telling people who've never heard the Gospel? to use my airplane analogy again, why should we only tell people who've never heard of parachutes? PirateEire You aren't right simply because you believe you're right. It is pretentious to go around claiming that you are, and all non-Christians are wrong. What's right for you may not be right for them. must i say it again? i'm not using my zealousness for my faith as a defense for Christianity, because then what makes me different from the lunatic in the mental ward who believes the whole world is out to get him? very little, i'd say. i was simply stating that i know my belief to be right, NOT (emphasis being on "not") using it in an apologetic sense, that is, as an "appeal to belief". and basically, i don't subscribe to the idea of relativism, moral or otherwise, except of course in matters of opinion, such as whether or not it's a nice day outside. You Bring out some very Good points Brother. Trust me I have enthusiasm about preaching too. And even though we believe fully our Belief is true, other people Don't. And we are to respect them and not thell them that they are wrong.
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