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 Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 7:45 pm
This week a topic from the Shakespeare play, Henry The Fifth.
Act 3 scene four illustrates the question that I would like people to consider
Shakespeare Flu. The perdition of th' athversary hath been very great, reasonable great: marry, for my part, I think the duke hath lost never a man but one that is like to be executed for robbing a church; one Bardolph, if your majesty know the man: his face is all bubukles, and whelks, and knobs, and flames o' fire; and his lips blows at his nose, and it is like a coal of fire, sometimes plue and sometimes red; but his nose is executed, and his fire's out. K. Hen. We would have all such offenders so cut off: and we give express charge that in our marches through the country there be nothing compelled from the villages, nothing taken but paid for, none of the French upbraided or abused in disdainful language; for when lenity and cruelty play for a kingdom, the gentler gamester is the soonest winner.
Bardolph was one of Prince Harry's friends, before he took the throne in his restless youth. Harry knew very well that Bardolph was a thief.. and Bardolph even jokingly asked the Prince not to hang a thief when he became Thief. At the time, the Prince foreshadowed what was to come by saying, that "No, thou shalt." meaning that he wouldn't hang a thief, he would hang Bardolph.
It was a very hard thing for Harry to do.. but in the end he had to hang Bardolph.
Earlier in the play one of his other friends (Falstaff) died, apparently partly because his will to live had left him, because Harry had to "forget" he knew him.
So, why did Harry, now King Henry, had to abandon his old friends now that he was king?
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Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 7:56 pm
I haven't read this play, but from the quote you posted, it appears that KH wanted to be a just king and treat the people fairly.
It would be hard to convince people that you wanted justice if you refused to punish a thief who happened to be your friend.
What was Falstaff's story?
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Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:10 pm
that is a valid point, hard to be a fair king if you give lenincies
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Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:16 pm
Howdy and welcome back, DM5
Dharmagirl PM'd me that she'd started this thread, and now she's off doing something else.
Guess I'll have to go read Henry, huh?
Which is cool, I just finished a book, so there's an opening!
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Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:20 pm
You are right about Harry wanting to be fair and just but the answer extends further than this. Let's stretch out and elaborate on what you contributed, DG ^ Like, why did Harry have to kill Bardolf? Would another punishment have done? As for Falstaff, he apparently wished to remain the King's friend, but Harry would not have it. Shakespeare Host. As ever you came of women, come in quickly to Sir John. Ah, poor heart! he is so shaked of a burning quotidian tertian, that it is most lamentable to behold. Sweet men, come to him. Nym. The king hath run bad humours on the knight; that's the even of it. Pist. Nym, thou hast spoke the right; His heart is fracted and corroborate. Nym. The king is a good king: but it must be as it may; he passes some humours and careers. Pist. Let us condole the knight; for, lamb- kins, we will live. For the rest, we have to run over and read up on Henry the Fourth parts one and two.. which describe The Princes coming of Age. Henry the Fifth represents Harry as a man, while the earlier plays describe his life before takign the crown. In Henry 4th part 2 Harry foreshadows Falstaff's death in Henry 5 by telling Falstaff that he would forget him, after Falstaff asks him not to forget him. Paraphrased "forget the world but forget not poor old Jack Falstaff." Then, a few few lines down.."I know you not old man." *ack* Hard stuff. crying Welcome back, Dragonmat heart
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Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:22 pm
designergrl Howdy and welcome back, DM5 Dharmagirl PM'd me that she'd started this thread, and now she's off doing something else. Guess I'll have to go read Henry, huh? Which is cool, I just finished a book, so there's an opening! not so, DG! I was taking my time by trying to pull good quotes for you. I should have gone over to Henry the Fourth and pulled those Falstaff quotes but I wanted to give you a HALFway timely answer. rofl
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Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:24 pm
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Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:27 pm
And I ran off to get a copy at Gutenberg... sorry.
So do you think I ought to read H4 both parts before doing this one?
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Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:33 pm
designergrl And I ran off to get a copy at Gutenberg... sorry. So do you think I ought to read H4 both parts before doing this one? Ooooh. That's a good question. To REALLY pull away a good understanding of Harry and his development, you need to. But many students of Henry the 5th get caught up by way of a synopsis. I'd read all of it, but that's only because Shakespeare was a fav of mine in school and I have a good deal of his plays in video form. BTW if you can get a copy of The Riverside Shakespeare. It's the single best volume I have ever found for him. It has all of his work and includes his bio, a history of The Globe Theatre, and The King's Company, and a bit more. Most good schools make the kids buy this edition. Oh, and thanks for the gutenberg link! I should have linked to a site that has most of his work in the first link, as well (BTW I go into 'pedant' mode sometimes when I'm in teach mode.. I hope I don't get annoying ) Edit: speaking of teach mode.. I like this play because it has the speach of St. Crispan's Day and because the setting is the famous battle for the field of Agincourt. The best thign about the Branagh Henry the 5th was the one right after the battle and they had finished taking stock of who had died. What I liked were all the arrows strewn out over the field as Henry walked to the wagons carrying a dead boy in his arms. At Agincourt the English had won out with a relatively small army over a mounted knight army of more than 10,000 (supposedly) because of the English long bow. They just mowed them down. Anyway, the subtly of arrows dotting the landscape was the bit that caught my eye.
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Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:38 pm
I never read it either...can't get into shakespearian writting myself. However for the sake of having a starting point, i'll read the parts.
As to the why he killed his freind, it may be due the fear of being used as a king by the freind. Having that power would make him start questioning the motives of everyone around him. then the only way to not be used, was to distance from his formar freinds, when falstaff tried to remain his freind, he might have taken it as an attempt to maniputale him.
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Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:41 pm
no apology necessary... it's all good.
I have Riverside in storage... got to watch the weight limits in the RV! rofl
Download is good enough for on the road... and it fits in my PDA, which is certainly alot easier to read in bed, with the backlight and all. That's the sort of thing that becomes important to a chronic insomniac like me. xd
I'll download all three Henry plays, then decide.
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Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:44 pm
designergrl no apology necessary... it's all good. I have Riverside in storage... got to watch the weight limits in the RV! rofl Download is good enough for on the road... and it fits in my PDA, which is certainly alot easier to read in bed, with the backlight and all. That's the sort of thing that becomes important to a chronic insomniac like me. xd I'll download all three Henry plays, then decide. Now I know you're smart rofl But if you can. can you rent H5? Shakespeare is so meant to be watched. Everytime I've wacthed somethign and gone back to read him later I have always gotten more from the expreience.
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Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:48 pm
dragonmatt5 I never read it either...can't get into shakespearian writting myself. However for the sake of having a starting point, i'll read the parts. As to the why he killed his freind, it may be due the fear of being used as a king by the freind. Having that power would make him start questioning the motives of everyone around him. then the only way to not be used, was to distance from his formar freinds, when falstaff tried to remain his freind, he might have taken it as an attempt to maniputale him. There's even more to it than that.. but you're really astute. While reading the plays one gets the feelign that the old friends are trying to stay in his good graces so they can continue their old ways. Falstaff partied way too mucxh than was good for him, and was known to make a spectacle. Bardolf was a thief.. and then basically asked the king 'not to hang a thief" and they both knew he was asking the Prince not to hang him if he should catch HIM Bardolf. There were some elements of trying to use Harry *gives Matt a star* xd
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Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:52 pm
wow i got it right without even reading the summary til after i posted...now i like that kind of luck
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Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:53 pm
I get good people, don't I?
*blows on fingernails*
About renting -- I can get netflix to send it to me next time I'm in one place for a few days. They're great about constant changes to our mailing address.
I'm gonna have to go in about 10 minutes, my dears. Just so's ya knows.
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