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Scarlet_Teardrops Captain
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 Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2026 4:26 pm
Servant Of Yashua Scarlet_Teardrops Servant Of Yashua What is the name for the belief that this world was a trap for Satan that Adam and Eve fell into? And that Satan argues that this world is too hard to not choose sin over obedience? And that we are here to prove Satan wrong that we can choose to love what's righteous over evil. In Ezekiel 28:11-19 God speaks to Satan, explaining to him why he cast him out.In essence Satan got greedy. And in Gensis 6:1-4 it states why the angels fell too. In the same way I believe Eve was too tempting to Satan to pass up. In Corinthians 11:10 Paul states that he urges women to cover their heads during prayer and prophecy out of respect for the angels present during. (I must admit im completely overwhelmed by all the paragraphs and articles/theories, im not like the man who taught me. He could match you much better on the essay-ish form of writing. I very much respect your effort in doing it, and I humbly admit that it seems very daunting to me.)
I'm sorry you feel overwhelmed. But don't sweat it - you are more than welcome in this conversation.
So, I'm not familiar with the specifics of the idea you mention here about Earth and humanity being essentially a test to prove Satan wrong. That concept echoes a theme in Job, but it's not a formal concept in Christianity, as far as I can tell. But no one's knowledge is comprehensive. 3nodding
It's an interesting idea, at least.
I don't interpret Ezekiel 28:11-19 as being about Satan - it's only about the king of Tyre. So for me, that Scripture is off the table when it comes to discussions about Satan. Same with Isaiah 14 and the king of Babylon.
I'm not sure that 1 Corinthians 11:10 connects with Satan. I also believe that, in the context of the rest of 1 Corinthians 11, it becomes clear that Paul is speaking from a cultural understanding about cultural customs/practices.Servant of Yashua if you look into 1 Chronicles 21 and 2 Samuel combined you will see an account where God uses Satan to force David to sin. And when you see who is punished instead of David you will understand why. (Basically David's sin embolden others who were already harboring hatred towards him in their hearts to sin and thus they were punished. In the lament towards Satan in Ezekiel 28:11-19 you will see that it is in God's character to set the wicked up to prove who they are. (Or force them to show it) You will also see this in the account of Moses Vs Pharoah where God says he will harden Pharoahs heart every time. (Which makes it even more strange that Moses was furious with Pharoah for it)
I see the discrepancy between 2 Samuel 24 and 1 Chronicles 21 as theological development. 2 Samuel was probably written before 1 Chronicles was written, and the authors had different goals in mind. This is very clear with how the Chronicles interpret and understand Israel's history and the actions of its peoples and leaders. You harmonize the passages, and that is totally fine. But that's not how I read them.
God hardened pharaoh's heart, but pharaoh also hardened his heart. The passages in Exodus reflect a kind of interplay between pharaoh's response to God and then God's response to pharaoh. Early on, the text is ambiguous about who hardened the pharaoh's heart, because it does not actually articulate who is doing the hardening until later passages. Then, in some later passages, it says pharaoh hardened his heart. It is only starting in Exodus 9 that the text begins explicitly saying that God hardened pharaoh's heart.
This suggests the text is less about God essentially forcing pharaoh to sin and more into God hardening obstinance and resistance that is already present. You can interpret the ambiguous passages as God doing it, but the text does not explicitly state that it is God doing any hardening until later, after the text explicitly states that pharaoh hardened his own heart.Servant of Yashua I also believe (to add to the levitical correlation in Jesus' sacrifice) that when they had the Israelite put their hand on the animal before sacrificing it, that was to transfer the sin/demon onto the animal before delivering it to Sheol via its blood. Which would come back to what I said about Jesus entering Sheol via his blood. With the sin of the world taken, and through our belief in him we give him our sin/demons. And as high priest and sacrificed for good, faith is our act of atonement. However, there is also scriptural evidence that when Jesus reigns on earth for a thousand years there will be animal sacrifices once again. Which Paul had taken part in after the resurrection and after he was called by Jesus into service.
I do not understand Jesus' reign as being a literal thousand years on Earth. His reign is already happening. One day, He will return, but it will not be to reign for a literal thousand years. It will be to bring heaven to Earth and restore Earth as God's cosmic temple, which we see in the early Genesis passages with the Garden of Eden. That is when the resurrection of the dead will also take place.
Your interpretation of the animal being sent to Sheol and the connection between blood and Sheol is interesting. I'm not terribly familiar with that understanding. Care to elaborate? ^_^
Then you don't believe in demonic possession? In that Lament he clearly speaks to a cherubim angel. In the first chapter of Ezekiel they are described. If this is not enough to convince you then we can leave it off the table and see if we are able to agree on any other point.
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Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2026 4:31 pm
Scarlet_Teardrops Servant Of Yashua Then you don't believe in demonic possession? In that Lament he clearly speaks to a cherubim angel. In the first chapter of Ezekiel they are described. If this is not enough to convince you then we can leave it off the table and see if we are able to agree on any other point.
I do believe in demonic possession. I do not believe that these passages indicate that God is describing Satan, or that they are proof of demonic possession. There are much more obvious cases of demonic possession, especially as seen in the Gospels and in Acts.
Regarding Ezekiel and Isaiah - prophets use symbolic language all the time. I do not believe that lions will actually eat grass, nor do I believe that Isaiah actually had a hot coal touch his lips.
So, "anointed cherub" is figurative language. It's describing the King of Tyre as a cherub, but this is figurative language. He is not a cherub, nor is he possessed by a fallen cherub. And in Isaiah, Lucifer is not an actual name but a title (light bearer, "lucifer") rendered in Jerome's translation of the Hebrew Bible into the Latin Vulgate. The idea that Lucifer is the name of Satan is a Christian interpretation that came later - Jewish audiences during Isaiah's time would not have understood Isaiah as talking about Satan at all. Same with Ezekiel.
Scarlet_Teardrops Servant Of Yashua Scarlet_Teardrops Servant Of Yashua Scarlet_Teardrops
Would you be willing to elaborate on what you mean by "literally"? I want you to know that I take the Scriptures seriously. My view is that genre, audience, and authorial intent play an integral role in how we understand a passage.
I believe that Ezekiel and Isaiah were both pronouncing judgments on real kings. However, the judgments had figurative language. This was a common technique used by prophets.
What I mean by that is that if he speaks to a person and tells them he anointed them as guardian cherub, I believe there is a clear distinction between a human and a cherub. So in that instance I do believe he is talking to a former angel. There are other instances where I am aware others take things figuratively and metaphorically which I dont. Like I believe that God dulled his awareness when walking in the cool of the day in a physical form, so much so that he had to call out to Adam and Eve because he wasnt completely aware of what they were doing. (Not that you can get the slip on God but he can choose to dull his awareness. This is also why I believe goat skins and dugong hides were used in the tabernacle- to create a sound proof layer) i believe he actually had to check where Abel was for the same reason. I believe the serpent was a serpent and Eve's punishment of the snake biting the heel of her offspring and her offspring g crushing the head has nothing to do with prophecy and is a literal enmity placed between man and snakes just as Adam's punishment entails the land producing thorns and thistle for him. Im sure if we speak long enough you will see all the things I believe that differ, which i think would be really interesting, honestly. 3nodding
That's an interesting position to take, friend.
Regarding your explanation of God in the Garden dulling His senses - that's actually pretty fascinating to me! ^_^
So, your explanation is that while God is presenting Himself in a theophany (a physical manifestation of God), He can limit His senses? Can you tell me why you think He did this?
I would agree with you that original Jewish readers of the Genesis 3 account would have understood the serpent to be a serpent and that the enmity between humans and serpents was quite distinctly about the enmity between...humans and serpents.
Of course, my understanding of the Genesis creation accounts and the other mythic stories in the early chapters probably differs greatly from the rest of you in the guild. That's not an issue for me, though. I'm not adversarial about it. 3nodding
I look forward to our many conversations, friend! heart
I believe there are a few hints that God likes to enjoy his creation. One is in the sentence where it states he was walking around in the cool of the day (Genesis 3:8 ). Describing a pleasent sensation. I believe this hints that he was choosing to enjoy the weather the way you or I would. Then there's enjoying the food and dining experience Abraham prepared for him (Gensis 18 ). And also note that it was an outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah that he chose to check on in corporeal form and a situation which caught even the angels off guard when they went to check in person. Which seems to me like he decided to pay no attention to those cities until the complaints grew too much), and in Psalm 50 he states "if i were hungry I would not tell you." Another pretty interesting one is that he made Aaron wear bells so that he could jingle them to announce his presence before entering the tent of meeting or he would die (Exodus 28:35). 🤭 Makes me think something happens in there that's too secret for anyone, including Aaron, to see. And whoever is in there is not aware of anyone approaching the tent. I believe there is also a link between why God tells Moses to take off his sandals because the place where he is standing is holy ground (Gensis 3:5), and Jesus tells his disciples to shake the sand off the bottom of their sandals as testament against the place that will not recieve their words (Matthew 10:14). And then it took Elijah 40 days and 40 nights to reach that mountain with no food or water, only what the angel gave him to eat to revive him (1 Kings 19:8 ). And i believe its because God likes his solitude sometimes and we would never know where he decides to enjoy his creation from unless we were like Elijah. And Jesus refers to him as the greatest man who was born of a woman. (Matthew 11:11) Oh.. that reminds me also I hold the belief that Elijah's spirit was placed in the womb of Elizabeth and the baby was named John. Basically, the idea of reincarnation but specifically for Elijah who I believe was the first to be caught up to heaven without first going through Sheol. (2 Kings 2:11)(As opposed to Enoch who was taken to Sheol without his body first dying. However i have no real indicator of where he was actually taken, tbh) Amd Jesus himself puts it plainly for his disciples, yes John the Baptist is the Elijah who was to come. I have to admit in the past I havent been as patient as I am now. Im enjoying not being adversarial about it either. Besides you've been very gracious and respectful, and that is how I earnestly aim to be in everything. heart
This is really interesting and I want to engage it.
However, we should take this particular conversation to a different thread, that way this thread about the atonement can stay on topic. Would you be interested in taking what you've written here and posting it in another thread?
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Scarlet_Teardrops Captain
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Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2026 4:32 pm
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Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2026 4:34 pm
Okay, now that it's all transferred over, we can continue this conversation without going off topic in the atonement theories thread. ^_^
So, to start off, tell me - what leads you to believe that Elijah's spirit was put into Elizabeth's womb and that he was named John? This is not something I've really ever heard before.
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Scarlet_Teardrops Captain
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Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2026 6:14 pm
Scarlet_Teardrops
Okay, now that it's all transferred over, we can continue this conversation without going off topic in the atonement theories thread. ^_^
So, to start off, tell me - what leads you to believe that Elijah's spirit was put into Elizabeth's womb and that he was named John? This is not something I've really ever heard before.
It has to do with the idea that he was called up to heaven without dying. In the final book of the old testament, I think is Micah. He says he is sending the spirit of Elijah to clear a path. When John was in the womb he lept for joy when Mary came close baring Jesus. I believe thi is because his spirit had met that of Jesus' in heaven. John the Baptist lived in the wilderness for so many years surviving of locusts and wild honey because this is something he had done before in his former life and he spent around a thousand years in heaven learning of his next assignment. Then, ofcourse there is the fact that Jesus plainly told his disciples that John is the Elijah spoken of in Micah. Sure John the Baptist told the Pharisees that he wasnt. Because technically that is true.. he is now John. 🤭 And Jesus gave the Pharisees the same treatment when they asked by who's authority does he do what he does. They weren't going to believe him, anyway.
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Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2026 6:32 pm
Servant Of Yashua Scarlet_Teardrops
Okay, now that it's all transferred over, we can continue this conversation without going off topic in the atonement theories thread. ^_^
So, to start off, tell me - what leads you to believe that Elijah's spirit was put into Elizabeth's womb and that he was named John? This is not something I've really ever heard before.
It has to do with the idea that he was called up to heaven without dying. In the final book of the old testament, I think is Micah. He says he is sending the spirit of Elijah to clear a path. When John was in the womb he lept for joy when Mary came close baring Jesus. I believe thi is because his spirit had met that of Jesus' in heaven. John the Baptist lived in the wilderness for so many years surviving of locusts and wild honey because this is something he had done before in his former life and he spent around a thousand years in heaven learning of his next assignment. Then, ofcourse there is the fact that Jesus plainly told his disciples that John is the Elijah spoken of in Micah. Sure John the Baptist told the Pharisees that he wasnt. Because technically that is true.. he is now John. 🤭 And Jesus gave the Pharisees the same treatment when they asked by who's authority does he do what he does. They weren't going to believe him, anyway.
I think you are remembering Malachi 4:5. Micah was a close guess, though!
Jesus does, indeed, say this in Matthew 11:14. I had never understood Jesus as meaning that John the Baptizer is literally Elijah reincarnated. My understanding was that Malachi 4:5 is saying that Elijah would come in spirit figuratively - as in, someone akin to Elijah.
But...I cannot say that your interpretation is actually invalid. As Jesus Himself said, "If you are willing to accept it..."
There is, however, another passage that might inform our interpretation. Luke 1:17, which says of John the Baptizer (NASB, emphasis mine): "And it is he who will go as a forerunner before Him in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of fathers back to their children, and the disobedient to the attitude of the righteous, to make ready a people prepared for the Lord."
In the spirit and power of Elijah suggests that John the Baptizer fits my earlier description - namely someone akin to Elijah.
But you are very consistent with the literalist lens you are using when you read the Scriptures.
I wonder how you interpret the Transfiguration, which appears in all three Synoptic Gospels. In the Transfiguration, as I am sure you are aware, Moses and Elijah appear on either side of Jesus.
This does take place after John the Baptizer has been executed. Is that why Elijah could be reincarnated as John the Baptizer and then appear with Jesus later?
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Scarlet_Teardrops Captain
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Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2026 7:52 pm
Scarlet_Teardrops Servant Of Yashua Scarlet_Teardrops
Okay, now that it's all transferred over, we can continue this conversation without going off topic in the atonement theories thread. ^_^
So, to start off, tell me - what leads you to believe that Elijah's spirit was put into Elizabeth's womb and that he was named John? This is not something I've really ever heard before.
It has to do with the idea that he was called up to heaven without dying. In the final book of the old testament, I think is Micah. He says he is sending the spirit of Elijah to clear a path. When John was in the womb he lept for joy when Mary came close baring Jesus. I believe thi is because his spirit had met that of Jesus' in heaven. John the Baptist lived in the wilderness for so many years surviving of locusts and wild honey because this is something he had done before in his former life and he spent around a thousand years in heaven learning of his next assignment. Then, ofcourse there is the fact that Jesus plainly told his disciples that John is the Elijah spoken of in Micah. Sure John the Baptist told the Pharisees that he wasnt. Because technically that is true.. he is now John. 🤭 And Jesus gave the Pharisees the same treatment when they asked by who's authority does he do what he does. They weren't going to believe him, anyway.
I think you are remembering Malachi 4:5. Micah was a close guess, though!
Jesus does, indeed, say this in Matthew 11:14. I had never understood Jesus as meaning that John the Baptizer is literally Elijah reincarnated. My understanding was that Malachi 4:5 is saying that Elijah would come in spirit figuratively - as in, someone akin to Elijah.
But...I cannot say that your interpretation is actually invalid. As Jesus Himself said, "If you are willing to accept it..."
There is, however, another passage that might inform our interpretation. Luke 1:17, which says of John the Baptizer (NASB, emphasis mine): "And it is he who will go as a forerunner before Him in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of fathers back to their children, and the disobedient to the attitude of the righteous, to make ready a people prepared for the Lord."
In the spirit and power of Elijah suggests that John the Baptizer fits my earlier description - namely someone akin to Elijah.
But you are very consistent with the literalist lens you are using when you read the Scriptures.
I wonder how you interpret the Transfiguration, which appears in all three Synoptic Gospels. In the Transfiguration, as I am sure you are aware, Moses and Elijah appear on either side of Jesus.
This does take place after John the Baptizer has been executed. Is that why Elijah could be reincarnated as John the Baptizer and then appear with Jesus later?
Yes I believe this is so. I believe a doorway to Sheol opened up (my understanding of Sheol, even with what I've been taught, feels lacking so I may have to look into this further to find the connection. Athough.. it would be reasonable to say that he chose to first speak to Moses and Elijah, who were in Sheol, through a doorway on esrth before officially going down there and preaching to the rest), and the white cloud was less of a cloud but more of an erasure of reality to show God's glory underneath as a being of pure light, which may have appeared as a cloud. And Jesus' transfiguration is completely akin to when Moses' face would be radiant after coming down from the mountain when talking to God. It is a revealing of the spirit of light of one who is connected with God. I do very much like this lens. 😁
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Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2026 9:42 am
Servant Of Yashua Scarlet_Teardrops Servant Of Yashua Scarlet_Teardrops
Okay, now that it's all transferred over, we can continue this conversation without going off topic in the atonement theories thread. ^_^
So, to start off, tell me - what leads you to believe that Elijah's spirit was put into Elizabeth's womb and that he was named John? This is not something I've really ever heard before.
It has to do with the idea that he was called up to heaven without dying. In the final book of the old testament, I think is Micah. He says he is sending the spirit of Elijah to clear a path. When John was in the womb he lept for joy when Mary came close baring Jesus. I believe thi is because his spirit had met that of Jesus' in heaven. John the Baptist lived in the wilderness for so many years surviving of locusts and wild honey because this is something he had done before in his former life and he spent around a thousand years in heaven learning of his next assignment. Then, ofcourse there is the fact that Jesus plainly told his disciples that John is the Elijah spoken of in Micah. Sure John the Baptist told the Pharisees that he wasnt. Because technically that is true.. he is now John. 🤭 And Jesus gave the Pharisees the same treatment when they asked by who's authority does he do what he does. They weren't going to believe him, anyway.
I think you are remembering Malachi 4:5. Micah was a close guess, though!
Jesus does, indeed, say this in Matthew 11:14. I had never understood Jesus as meaning that John the Baptizer is literally Elijah reincarnated. My understanding was that Malachi 4:5 is saying that Elijah would come in spirit figuratively - as in, someone akin to Elijah.
But...I cannot say that your interpretation is actually invalid. As Jesus Himself said, "If you are willing to accept it..."
There is, however, another passage that might inform our interpretation. Luke 1:17, which says of John the Baptizer (NASB, emphasis mine): "And it is he who will go as a forerunner before Him in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of fathers back to their children, and the disobedient to the attitude of the righteous, to make ready a people prepared for the Lord."
In the spirit and power of Elijah suggests that John the Baptizer fits my earlier description - namely someone akin to Elijah.
But you are very consistent with the literalist lens you are using when you read the Scriptures.
I wonder how you interpret the Transfiguration, which appears in all three Synoptic Gospels. In the Transfiguration, as I am sure you are aware, Moses and Elijah appear on either side of Jesus.
This does take place after John the Baptizer has been executed. Is that why Elijah could be reincarnated as John the Baptizer and then appear with Jesus later?
Yes I believe this is so. I believe a doorway to Sheol opened up (my understanding of Sheol, even with what I've been taught, feels lacking so I may have to look into this further to find the connection. Athough.. it would be reasonable to say that he chose to first speak to Moses and Elijah, who were in Sheol, through a doorway on esrth before officially going down there and preaching to the rest), and the white cloud was less of a cloud but more of an erasure of reality to show God's glory underneath as a being of pure light, which may have appeared as a cloud. And Jesus' transfiguration is completely akin to when Moses' face would be radiant after coming down from the mountain when talking to God. It is a revealing of the spirit of light of one who is connected with God. I do very much like this lens. 😁
That's an interesting view of the Transfiguration, friend.
If I may ask - do you believe that reincarnation is something that happens to everyone, or was it just a special thing in Elijah's case?
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Scarlet_Teardrops Captain
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Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2026 1:31 am
Scarlet_Teardrops Servant Of Yashua Scarlet_Teardrops Servant Of Yashua Scarlet_Teardrops
Okay, now that it's all transferred over, we can continue this conversation without going off topic in the atonement theories thread. ^_^
So, to start off, tell me - what leads you to believe that Elijah's spirit was put into Elizabeth's womb and that he was named John? This is not something I've really ever heard before.
It has to do with the idea that he was called up to heaven without dying. In the final book of the old testament, I think is Micah. He says he is sending the spirit of Elijah to clear a path. When John was in the womb he lept for joy when Mary came close baring Jesus. I believe thi is because his spirit had met that of Jesus' in heaven. John the Baptist lived in the wilderness for so many years surviving of locusts and wild honey because this is something he had done before in his former life and he spent around a thousand years in heaven learning of his next assignment. Then, ofcourse there is the fact that Jesus plainly told his disciples that John is the Elijah spoken of in Micah. Sure John the Baptist told the Pharisees that he wasnt. Because technically that is true.. he is now John. 🤭 And Jesus gave the Pharisees the same treatment when they asked by who's authority does he do what he does. They weren't going to believe him, anyway.
I think you are remembering Malachi 4:5. Micah was a close guess, though!
Jesus does, indeed, say this in Matthew 11:14. I had never understood Jesus as meaning that John the Baptizer is literally Elijah reincarnated. My understanding was that Malachi 4:5 is saying that Elijah would come in spirit figuratively - as in, someone akin to Elijah.
But...I cannot say that your interpretation is actually invalid. As Jesus Himself said, "If you are willing to accept it..."
There is, however, another passage that might inform our interpretation. Luke 1:17, which says of John the Baptizer (NASB, emphasis mine): "And it is he who will go as a forerunner before Him in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of fathers back to their children, and the disobedient to the attitude of the righteous, to make ready a people prepared for the Lord."
In the spirit and power of Elijah suggests that John the Baptizer fits my earlier description - namely someone akin to Elijah.
But you are very consistent with the literalist lens you are using when you read the Scriptures.
I wonder how you interpret the Transfiguration, which appears in all three Synoptic Gospels. In the Transfiguration, as I am sure you are aware, Moses and Elijah appear on either side of Jesus.
This does take place after John the Baptizer has been executed. Is that why Elijah could be reincarnated as John the Baptizer and then appear with Jesus later?
Yes I believe this is so. I believe a doorway to Sheol opened up (my understanding of Sheol, even with what I've been taught, feels lacking so I may have to look into this further to find the connection. Athough.. it would be reasonable to say that he chose to first speak to Moses and Elijah, who were in Sheol, through a doorway on esrth before officially going down there and preaching to the rest), and the white cloud was less of a cloud but more of an erasure of reality to show God's glory underneath as a being of pure light, which may have appeared as a cloud. And Jesus' transfiguration is completely akin to when Moses' face would be radiant after coming down from the mountain when talking to God. It is a revealing of the spirit of light of one who is connected with God. I do very much like this lens. 😁
That's an interesting view of the Transfiguration, friend.
If I may ask - do you believe that reincarnation is something that happens to everyone, or was it just a special thing in Elijah's case?
Scripture says everyone goes to one place and then they never have anything to do with anything in earth again. Elijah went to heaven, he still had something to do before going to Sheol. So no. Once you pass into Sheol you pass into Sheol. The only exception was Samuel because King Saul was a king of Israel. The same way David was permitted to kill one of his mighty men and have the next king by the woman he killed him for, Saul was allowed to disturb Samuel's rest. And it was a detestable thing to do. But please don't get me wrong. I've done detestable things, and I only want to move further away from the idea of doing them. I am not the judge. I can't even say where in Sheol Saul's spirit went. I'd have to see if it states that he was gathered to his people, maybe. I think that's usually a clear indicator.. but I don't know that much yet. David did bury him later with his tribe. Which I believe does play a significant role in the resurrection. All the tribes are going to resurrect and reclaim their ancestral lands. What are your thoughts on the resurrection, btw?
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Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2026 5:37 am
Servant Of Yashua Scarlet_Teardrops Servant Of Yashua Scarlet_Teardrops Servant Of Yashua Scarlet_Teardrops
Okay, now that it's all transferred over, we can continue this conversation without going off topic in the atonement theories thread. ^_^
So, to start off, tell me - what leads you to believe that Elijah's spirit was put into Elizabeth's womb and that he was named John? This is not something I've really ever heard before.
It has to do with the idea that he was called up to heaven without dying. In the final book of the old testament, I think is Micah. He says he is sending the spirit of Elijah to clear a path. When John was in the womb he lept for joy when Mary came close baring Jesus. I believe thi is because his spirit had met that of Jesus' in heaven. John the Baptist lived in the wilderness for so many years surviving of locusts and wild honey because this is something he had done before in his former life and he spent around a thousand years in heaven learning of his next assignment. Then, ofcourse there is the fact that Jesus plainly told his disciples that John is the Elijah spoken of in Micah. Sure John the Baptist told the Pharisees that he wasnt. Because technically that is true.. he is now John. 🤭 And Jesus gave the Pharisees the same treatment when they asked by who's authority does he do what he does. They weren't going to believe him, anyway.
I think you are remembering Malachi 4:5. Micah was a close guess, though!
Jesus does, indeed, say this in Matthew 11:14. I had never understood Jesus as meaning that John the Baptizer is literally Elijah reincarnated. My understanding was that Malachi 4:5 is saying that Elijah would come in spirit figuratively - as in, someone akin to Elijah.
But...I cannot say that your interpretation is actually invalid. As Jesus Himself said, "If you are willing to accept it..."
There is, however, another passage that might inform our interpretation. Luke 1:17, which says of John the Baptizer (NASB, emphasis mine): "And it is he who will go as a forerunner before Him in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of fathers back to their children, and the disobedient to the attitude of the righteous, to make ready a people prepared for the Lord."
In the spirit and power of Elijah suggests that John the Baptizer fits my earlier description - namely someone akin to Elijah.
But you are very consistent with the literalist lens you are using when you read the Scriptures.
I wonder how you interpret the Transfiguration, which appears in all three Synoptic Gospels. In the Transfiguration, as I am sure you are aware, Moses and Elijah appear on either side of Jesus.
This does take place after John the Baptizer has been executed. Is that why Elijah could be reincarnated as John the Baptizer and then appear with Jesus later?
Yes I believe this is so. I believe a doorway to Sheol opened up (my understanding of Sheol, even with what I've been taught, feels lacking so I may have to look into this further to find the connection. Athough.. it would be reasonable to say that he chose to first speak to Moses and Elijah, who were in Sheol, through a doorway on esrth before officially going down there and preaching to the rest), and the white cloud was less of a cloud but more of an erasure of reality to show God's glory underneath as a being of pure light, which may have appeared as a cloud. And Jesus' transfiguration is completely akin to when Moses' face would be radiant after coming down from the mountain when talking to God. It is a revealing of the spirit of light of one who is connected with God. I do very much like this lens. 😁
That's an interesting view of the Transfiguration, friend.
If I may ask - do you believe that reincarnation is something that happens to everyone, or was it just a special thing in Elijah's case?
Scripture says everyone goes to one place and then they never have anything to do with anything in earth again. Elijah went to heaven, he still had something to do before going to Sheol. So no. Once you pass into Sheol you pass into Sheol. The only exception was Samuel because King Saul was a king of Israel. The same way David was permitted to kill one of his mighty men and have the next king by the woman he killed him for, Saul was allowed to disturb Samuel's rest. And it was a detestable thing to do. But please don't get me wrong. I've done detestable things, and I only want to move further away from the idea of doing them. I am not the judge. I can't even say where in Sheol Saul's spirit went. I'd have to see if it states that he was gathered to his people, maybe. I think that's usually a clear indicator.. but I don't know that much yet. David did bury him later with his tribe. Which I believe does play a significant role in the resurrection. All the tribes are going to resurrect and reclaim their ancestral lands. What are your thoughts on the resurrection, btw?
Thank you for clarifying. 3nodding
That's an interesting view on Elijah. So, once he was executed as John the Baptizer, he went to Sheol?
Also, I have another question - if Samuel's spirit was capable of being disturbed, do you think other spirits are capable of being disturbed? After all, the Bible doesn't record every single event in history.
My thoughts on the resurrection of the dead are that there will be one resurrection at the end of this age - in my understanding, "the last days" have been going on since the time of Jesus. I'm not sure how close we are or are not to His return. When He does return at the end of this age, there will be a resurrection for everyone. And everyone will face judgment. The righteous will be with Him, and the unrighteous shall meet their final end.
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Scarlet_Teardrops Captain
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Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2026 9:15 pm
Scarlet_Teardrops Servant Of Yashua Scarlet_Teardrops Servant Of Yashua Scarlet_Teardrops
I think you are remembering Malachi 4:5. Micah was a close guess, though!
Jesus does, indeed, say this in Matthew 11:14. I had never understood Jesus as meaning that John the Baptizer is literally Elijah reincarnated. My understanding was that Malachi 4:5 is saying that Elijah would come in spirit figuratively - as in, someone akin to Elijah.
But...I cannot say that your interpretation is actually invalid. As Jesus Himself said, "If you are willing to accept it..."
There is, however, another passage that might inform our interpretation. Luke 1:17, which says of John the Baptizer (NASB, emphasis mine): "And it is he who will go as a forerunner before Him in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of fathers back to their children, and the disobedient to the attitude of the righteous, to make ready a people prepared for the Lord."
In the spirit and power of Elijah suggests that John the Baptizer fits my earlier description - namely someone akin to Elijah.
But you are very consistent with the literalist lens you are using when you read the Scriptures.
I wonder how you interpret the Transfiguration, which appears in all three Synoptic Gospels. In the Transfiguration, as I am sure you are aware, Moses and Elijah appear on either side of Jesus.
This does take place after John the Baptizer has been executed. Is that why Elijah could be reincarnated as John the Baptizer and then appear with Jesus later?
Yes I believe this is so. I believe a doorway to Sheol opened up (my understanding of Sheol, even with what I've been taught, feels lacking so I may have to look into this further to find the connection. Athough.. it would be reasonable to say that he chose to first speak to Moses and Elijah, who were in Sheol, through a doorway on esrth before officially going down there and preaching to the rest), and the white cloud was less of a cloud but more of an erasure of reality to show God's glory underneath as a being of pure light, which may have appeared as a cloud. And Jesus' transfiguration is completely akin to when Moses' face would be radiant after coming down from the mountain when talking to God. It is a revealing of the spirit of light of one who is connected with God. I do very much like this lens. 😁
That's an interesting view of the Transfiguration, friend.
If I may ask - do you believe that reincarnation is something that happens to everyone, or was it just a special thing in Elijah's case?
Scripture says everyone goes to one place and then they never have anything to do with anything in earth again. Elijah went to heaven, he still had something to do before going to Sheol. So no. Once you pass into Sheol you pass into Sheol. The only exception was Samuel because King Saul was a king of Israel. The same way David was permitted to kill one of his mighty men and have the next king by the woman he killed him for, Saul was allowed to disturb Samuel's rest. And it was a detestable thing to do. But please don't get me wrong. I've done detestable things, and I only want to move further away from the idea of doing them. I am not the judge. I can't even say where in Sheol Saul's spirit went. I'd have to see if it states that he was gathered to his people, maybe. I think that's usually a clear indicator.. but I don't know that much yet. David did bury him later with his tribe. Which I believe does play a significant role in the resurrection. All the tribes are going to resurrect and reclaim their ancestral lands. What are your thoughts on the resurrection, btw?
Thank you for clarifying. 3nodding
That's an interesting view on Elijah. So, once he was executed as John the Baptizer, he went to Sheol?
Also, I have another question - if Samuel's spirit was capable of being disturbed, do you think other spirits are capable of being disturbed? After all, the Bible doesn't record every single event in history.
My thoughts on the resurrection of the dead are that there will be one resurrection at the end of this age - in my understanding, "the last days" have been going on since the time of Jesus. I'm not sure how close we are or are not to His return. When He does return at the end of this age, there will be a resurrection for everyone. And everyone will face judgment. The righteous will be with Him, and the unrighteous shall meet their final end.
Are you aware of the third temple and the sacrifices as well as the abomination that causes desolation? Allow me to clarify, only a King of Israel can get whatever he wants. So unless you are the King of Israel you're not disturbing any other spirits. 🤭
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Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2026 9:12 am
Servant Of Yashua Are you aware of the third temple and the sacrifices as well as the abomination that causes desolation? Allow me to clarify, only a King of Israel can get whatever he wants. So unless you are the King of Israel you're not disturbing any other spirits. 🤭
Can you elaborate on what you mean by "only a King of Israel can get whatever he wants"? Why only a King of Israel?
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Scarlet_Teardrops Captain
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Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2026 7:02 pm
Scarlet_Teardrops Servant Of Yashua Are you aware of the third temple and the sacrifices as well as the abomination that causes desolation? Allow me to clarify, only a King of Israel can get whatever he wants. So unless you are the King of Israel you're not disturbing any other spirits. 🤭
Can you elaborate on what you mean by "only a King of Israel can get whatever he wants"? Why only a King of Israel?
This unfortunately is something I'm not entirely studied up on and never asked too many questions about. I just know I was taught that God honors the King of Israel and Scripture says that people no longer have any part in the world once they die. So it's not people that mediums call upon but beings in heavenly places that encourage them to do what God finds detestable. And Saul had a habit of twisting what God had commanded him to do and doing his own ill-thought-out things. And for David to be able to off one of his mighty men by sending him into battle is odd too. Uriah was a mighty man, untouchable, invincible in battle and he was very loyal to God even above David's suggestion to go home and relax. His loyalty to God is what allowed him to be blessed with might and a wife so beautiful that David sinned to get her, albeit unknowingly. This is a difficult one to teach/explain.
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Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2026 8:25 pm
Servant Of Yashua Scarlet_Teardrops Servant Of Yashua Are you aware of the third temple and the sacrifices as well as the abomination that causes desolation? Allow me to clarify, only a King of Israel can get whatever he wants. So unless you are the King of Israel you're not disturbing any other spirits. 🤭
Can you elaborate on what you mean by "only a King of Israel can get whatever he wants"? Why only a King of Israel?
This unfortunately is something I'm not entirely studied up on and never asked too many questions about. I just know I was taught that God honors the King of Israel and Scripture says that people no longer have any part in the world once they die. So it's not people that mediums call upon but beings in heavenly places that encourage them to do what God finds detestable. And Saul had a habit of twisting what God had commanded him to do and doing his own ill-thought-out things. And for David to be able to off one of his mighty men by sending him into battle is odd too. Uriah was a mighty man, untouchable, invincible in battle and he was very loyal to God even above David's suggestion to go home and relax. His loyalty to God is what allowed him to be blessed with might and a wife so beautiful that David sinned to get her, albeit unknowingly. This is a difficult one to teach/explain.
That's a fair and honest answer, my friend. 3nodding
So, do you believe in the concept of "soul sleep"? It seems like you might. This isn't a problem, of course. I'm just curious. ^_^
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Scarlet_Teardrops Captain
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Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2026 9:50 pm
Scarlet_Teardrops Servant Of Yashua Scarlet_Teardrops Servant Of Yashua Are you aware of the third temple and the sacrifices as well as the abomination that causes desolation? Allow me to clarify, only a King of Israel can get whatever he wants. So unless you are the King of Israel you're not disturbing any other spirits. 🤭
Can you elaborate on what you mean by "only a King of Israel can get whatever he wants"? Why only a King of Israel?
This unfortunately is something I'm not entirely studied up on and never asked too many questions about. I just know I was taught that God honors the King of Israel and Scripture says that people no longer have any part in the world once they die. So it's not people that mediums call upon but beings in heavenly places that encourage them to do what God finds detestable. And Saul had a habit of twisting what God had commanded him to do and doing his own ill-thought-out things. And for David to be able to off one of his mighty men by sending him into battle is odd too. Uriah was a mighty man, untouchable, invincible in battle and he was very loyal to God even above David's suggestion to go home and relax. His loyalty to God is what allowed him to be blessed with might and a wife so beautiful that David sinned to get her, albeit unknowingly. This is a difficult one to teach/explain.
That's a fair and honest answer, my friend. 3nodding
So, do you believe in the concept of "soul sleep"? It seems like you might. This isn't a problem, of course. I'm just curious. ^_^
idk what is it?
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