So let me start off by saying I did not go to seminary and I do not know all the minute facets out there about end times belief. BUT I read scripture and I have watched A LOT of Chuck Missler videos.
Personally, I am PreMil, as I take a more literal interpretation of the bible, but I have quite a few Amil and Postmil friends. We are all the bride of Christ awaiting His return!
What eschatological view do you currently hold to? 3nodding
Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2026 6:10 pm
Elora Lore
So let me start off by saying I did not go to seminary and I do not know all the minute facets out there about end times belief. BUT I read scripture and I have watched A LOT of Chuck Missler videos.
Personally, I am PreMil, as I take a more literal interpretation of the bible, but I have quite a few Amil and Postmil friends. We are all the bride of Christ awaiting His return!
What eschatological view do you currently hold to? 3nodding
You don't have to go to seminary to have a coherent eschatological view. 3nodding
I am Amillennial. Though I dislike the word Amillennial because it suggests "No Millennium", which is not the Amillennial view.
If it helps, here's a rundown:
Amillennialism is the view that the 1000-year reign of Christ is happening right now. 1000 years in Jewish chronology is not a literal 1000 years but refers to the fullness of time allotted to something. The anti-Christ is a symbol representing anything that opposes Christianity and Christians, though there is good reason to believe it is also referring to a specific emperor of Rome.
Whore of Babylon? Same idea.
Christ is already reigning. Satan is already bound - what that means is that he cannot stop the Gospel from going forward into the world. I believe that there is no rapture. There is no literal "years of tribulation". These are the "last days" and have been the last days since Jesus came and preached about the Kingdom.
The Kingdom is at hand. This is what Jesus preached, among many other things of course, and that Kingdom is now here. We're just waiting for the final victory and the marriage supper, whenever that will be.
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Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2026 9:26 am
It's quiet...
...too quiet... ninja
Let's talk about....
PRETERISM
Have you heard of it? What do you think of it?
Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2026 5:53 pm
scarlet_teardrops
PRETERISM
Have you heard of it? What do you think of it?
Personally I don’t think all of prophecy has been fulfilled. There is still much to play out like the future restoration of Israel.
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Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2026 6:17 pm
Elora Lore
scarlet_teardrops
PRETERISM
Have you heard of it? What do you think of it?
Personally I don’t think all of prophecy has been fulfilled. There is still much to play out like the future restoration of Israel.
Are you of the Dispensational persuasion, then?
My main issue with full Preterism is that it says the resurrection has already happened. That's kind of a big oopsie, in my opinion.
Partial Preterism is a different story. That's the view that many prophecies have been fulfilled, but the Resurrection and glorification stuff hasn't happened yet. Some of the things Jesus predicted - no stone left unturned, abomination of desolation (Daniel passage referenced by Jesus in the Synoptics) - for example, happened in 70 AD.
Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2026 7:01 pm
Scarlet_Teardrops
Elora Lore
scarlet_teardrops
PRETERISM
Have you heard of it? What do you think of it?
Personally I don’t think all of prophecy has been fulfilled. There is still much to play out like the future restoration of Israel.
Are you of the Dispensational persuasion, then?
My main issue with full Preterism is that it says the resurrection has already happened. That's kind of a big oopsie, in my opinion.
Partial Preterism is a different story. That's the view that many prophecies have been fulfilled, but the Resurrection and glorification stuff hasn't happened yet. Some of the things Jesus predicted - no stone left unturned, abomination of desolation (Daniel passage referenced by Jesus in the Synoptics) - for example, happened in 70 AD.
I’m kind of weird where I think there was a physical fulfillment and I think it will also play out spiritually in our time. (The abomination etc)
I don’t know if I understand dispensationalism. Every time I ask someone to define it I get varying answers. sweatdrop Happy to hear your take on it!
I just think it’s clear God has plans for the jewish people to graft them back in.
Romans 11:11-12
11 I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did they? May it never be! But by their transgression salvation has come to the Gentiles, to make them jealous. 12 Now if their transgression is riches for the world and their failure is riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their fulfillment be!
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Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2026 7:21 pm
Elora Lore
Scarlet_Teardrops
Elora Lore
scarlet_teardrops
PRETERISM
Have you heard of it? What do you think of it?
Personally I don’t think all of prophecy has been fulfilled. There is still much to play out like the future restoration of Israel.
Are you of the Dispensational persuasion, then?
My main issue with full Preterism is that it says the resurrection has already happened. That's kind of a big oopsie, in my opinion.
Partial Preterism is a different story. That's the view that many prophecies have been fulfilled, but the Resurrection and glorification stuff hasn't happened yet. Some of the things Jesus predicted - no stone left unturned, abomination of desolation (Daniel passage referenced by Jesus in the Synoptics) - for example, happened in 70 AD.
I’m kind of weird where I think there was a physical fulfillment and I think it will also play out spiritually in our time. (The abomination etc)
I don’t know if I understand dispensationalism. Every time I ask someone to define it I get varying answers. sweatdrop Happy to hear your take on it!
I just think it’s clear God has plans for the jewish people to graft them back in.
Romans 11:11-12
11 I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did they? May it never be! But by their transgression salvation has come to the Gentiles, to make them jealous. 12 Now if their transgression is riches for the world and their failure is riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their fulfillment be!
No problem! Let me give you the no-nonsense, non-biased take. heart
Dispensationalism is a very new theological development (1800s), originating with John Nelson Darby. It's a lens for reading and understanding the entire Bible. Dispensationalism's core idea is that God works in Dispensations throughout history, and that Israel still has special prophecies to be fulfilled. It distinguishes between the Church and Israel as two separate peoples of God.
The idea of a 7-year tribulation, with a rapture before the tribulation, followed by a literal thousand-year reign of Jesus on Earth, finds its origin in Dispensationalism. A great many Christians, especially in the United States, have inherited a Dispensational framework without even realizing it.
Please note: Dispensational Premillenialism is distinct from Historic Premillenialism (also called Chiliasm), which is a very old understanding of the Millennial Reign of Christ.
So, there you have it! 3nodding
I'm not Dispensational by the way.
Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2026 7:37 pm
Scarlet_Teardrops
No problem! Let me give you the no-nonsense, non-biased take. heart
Dispensationalism is a very new theological development (1800s), originating with John Nelson Darby. It's a lens for reading and understanding the entire Bible. Dispensationalism's core idea is that God works in Dispensations throughout history, and that Israel still has special prophecies to be fulfilled. It distinguishes between the Church and Israel as two separate peoples of God.
The idea of a 7-year tribulation, with a rapture before the tribulation, followed by a literal thousand-year reign of Jesus on Earth, finds its origin in Dispensationalism. A great many Christians, especially in the United States, have inherited a Dispensational framework without even realizing it.
Please note: Dispensational Premillenialism is distinct from Historic Premillenialism (also called Chiliasm), which is a very old understanding of the Millennial Reign of Christ.
So, there you have it! 3nodding
I'm not Dispensational by the way.
Thanks for the explanation! I do believe in the rapture before the great tribulation, and the thousand yr reign of Christ, but whether the trib is 7 yrs I I’m not sure.
I think Jesus is returning soon. I think Genesis is a good parallel to see where we are, and I kind of hold out hope it’s before 2030. Seeing what’s coming down the elitist pike…
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Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2026 8:49 pm
Elora Lore
Scarlet_Teardrops
No problem! Let me give you the no-nonsense, non-biased take. heart
Dispensationalism is a very new theological development (1800s), originating with John Nelson Darby. It's a lens for reading and understanding the entire Bible. Dispensationalism's core idea is that God works in Dispensations throughout history, and that Israel still has special prophecies to be fulfilled. It distinguishes between the Church and Israel as two separate peoples of God.
The idea of a 7-year tribulation, with a rapture before the tribulation, followed by a literal thousand-year reign of Jesus on Earth, finds its origin in Dispensationalism. A great many Christians, especially in the United States, have inherited a Dispensational framework without even realizing it.
Please note: Dispensational Premillenialism is distinct from Historic Premillenialism (also called Chiliasm), which is a very old understanding of the Millennial Reign of Christ.
So, there you have it! 3nodding
I'm not Dispensational by the way.
Thanks for the explanation! I do believe in the rapture before the great tribulation, and the thousand yr reign of Christ, but whether the trib is 7 yrs I I’m not sure.
I think Jesus is returning soon. I think Genesis is a good parallel to see where we are, and I kind of hold out hope it’s before 2030. Seeing what’s coming down the elitist pike…
You're welcome. ^_^
It sounds like you hold to some Dispensational concepts, but not necessarily all of them.
Charles Ryrie is a key Dispensational theologian you'd want to read to get a really full grasp of how that theological framework interacts with Scripture.
One of the primary reasons I reject Dispensationalism is because I do not see the Church and Israel as separate. The language that Jesus and Paul both use suggest that the Church is the final form of the people of God, what with the grafting of Gentiles and so on. That sounds like one body that already existed, and the Gentiles are just being added in. Peter also refers to the Church using OT language about Israel - a chosen people, royal priesthood, holy nation, a people for God (1 Peter 2:9-10).
And even you would seemingly agree with that, what with your mention of the Jewish people being grafted back in (I don't disagree).
I don't know when Jesus will return, but I suspect it will be a long time from now. Too many people still expect Him to return imminently. The event is supposed to be like a thief in the night - unexpected.
Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2026 8:17 am
Scarlet_Teardrops
You're welcome. ^_^
It sounds like you hold to some Dispensational concepts, but not necessarily all of them.
Charles Ryrie is a key Dispensational theologian you'd want to read to get a really full grasp of how that theological framework interacts with Scripture.
One of the primary reasons I reject Dispensationalism is because I do not see the Church and Israel as separate. The language that Jesus and Paul both use suggest that the Church is the final form of the people of God, what with the grafting of Gentiles and so on. That sounds like one body that already existed, and the Gentiles are just being added in. Peter also refers to the Church using OT language about Israel - a chosen people, royal priesthood, holy nation, a people for God (1 Peter 2:9-10).
And even you would seemingly agree with that, what with your mention of the Jewish people being grafted back in (I don't disagree).
I don't know when Jesus will return, but I suspect it will be a long time from now. Too many people still expect Him to return imminently. The event is supposed to be like a thief in the night - unexpected.
I've never heard of him, I'll keep him on the back-burner as a resource!
I don't see the church and Israel as separate either as far as salvation goes. I see them as distinct, as Paul does make distinctions between them and as we both agree, the Jewish people will be grafted back in.
Taking a look at Romans 11: When Paul talks about the Jewish people being grafted back in, he calls them "God's people" and "Israel."
Romans 11:1-2
1 I say then, God has not rejected His people, has He? May it never be! For I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew.
So here as well we see the remnant of those Paul refers to as Israelites. It's clear God has a distinct plan for these that are called Israelites.
Romans 11:7-16
7 What then? What Israel is seeking, it has not obtained, but those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were hardened; [exphasis mine]
8 just as it is written, “GOD GAVE THEM A SPIRIT OF STUPOR, EYES TO SEE NOT AND EARS TO HEAR NOT, DOWN TO THIS VERY DAY.”
9 And David says, “LET THEIR TABLE BECOME A SNARE AND A TRAP, AND A STUMBLING BLOCK AND A RETRIBUTION TO THEM.
10 “LET THEIR EYES BE DARKENED TO SEE NOT, AND BEND THEIR BACKS FOREVER.” 11 I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did they? May it never be! But by their transgression salvation has come to the Gentiles, to make them jealous. 12 Now if their transgression is riches for the world and their failure is riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their fulfillment be! [emphasis mine] 13 But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, 14 if somehow I might move to jealousy my fellow countrymen and save some of them. 15 For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? 16 If the first piece of dough is holy, the lump is also; and if the root is holy, the branches are too. [emphasis mine]
When we look at 1 Peter we see the roles and identity of those in Christ, as it was for the Israelites who trusted in the Messiah before the revelation of Jesus, but to my knowledge Paul doesn't call us Israelites.
1 Peter 2:9-10
9 But you are A CHOSEN PEOPLE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR GOD’S OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 10 for you once were NOT A PEOPLE, but now you are THE PEOPLE OF GOD; you had NOT RECEIVED MERCY, but now you have RECEIVED MERCY.
Paul calls the Jews the natural branches, the gentiles are not natural, but grafted in.
Romans 11:23-24
And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree?
To be clear, the grafting in is not grafting into the Church, the root is not the Church, the root is Christ.
God has a clear plan for those called Israel:
Romans 11:25-27
25 For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in;
26and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written, “THE DELIVERER WILL COME FROM ZION, HE WILL REMOVE UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB.”
27“THIS IS MY COVENANT WITH THEM, WHEN I TAKE AWAY THEIR SINS.”
28 From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God’s choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers; 29for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30For just as you once were disobedient to God, but now have been shown mercy because of their disobedience, 31so these also now have been disobedient, that because of the mercy shown to you they also may now be shown mercy. 32For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all.
33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways! 34For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, OR WHO BECAME HIS COUNSELOR? 35Or WHO HAS FIRST GIVEN TO HIM THAT IT MIGHT BE PAID BACK TO HIM AGAIN? 36For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever. Amen.
Here it seems like all Israel will be saved once the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. It seems like there will be a day when they will recognize their Messiah. So God's plan is all will be one in Christ, but the working out of that plan for Israel is still to come to fruition after the fullness of the gentiles.
Matthew 23:37-38
37“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who have been sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. 38Behold, your house is being left to you desolate! 39For I say to you, from now on you will not see Me until you say, ‘BLESSED IS THE ONE WHO COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD!’”
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Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2026 8:56 am
Scarlet_Teardrops
I don't know when Jesus will return, but I suspect it will be a long time from now. Too many people still expect Him to return imminently. The event is supposed to be like a thief in the night - unexpected.
Why do you suspect it will be a long time from now? Scripture is clear we will not know the day or the hour, but Jesus forewarns us of what those days will be like right before His coming.
Matthew 24
1 Jesus left the temple area and was going on His way when His disciples came up to point out the temple buildings to Him. 2 But He responded and said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down.”
3 And as He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”
4 And Jesus answered and said to them, “See to it that no one misleads you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will mislead many people. 6 And you will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pains.
9 “Then they will hand you over to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. 10 And at that time many will fall away, and they will betray one another and hate one another. 11 And many false prophets will rise up and mislead many people. 12 And because lawlessness is increased, most people’s love will become cold. 13 But the one who endures to the end is the one who will be saved. 14This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.
15 “Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place—let the reader understand— 16 then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. 17 Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get things out of his house. 18 And whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak. 19 But woe to those women who are pregnant, and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 Moreover, pray that when you flee, it will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath. 21 For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will again. 22 And if those days had not been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the [r]elect those days will be cut short. 23 Then if anyone says to you, ‘Behold, here is the Christ,’ or ‘He is over here,’ do not believe him. 24 For false christs and false prophets will arise and will provide great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect. 25 Behold, I have told you in advance. 26 So if they say to you, ‘Behold, He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Behold, He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe them. 27 For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes as far as the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28 Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.
29 “But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory. 31 And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET BLAST, and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.
32 “Now learn the parable from the fig tree: as soon as its branch has become tender and sprouts its leaves, you know that summer is near; 33 so you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.
36 “But about that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. 37 For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. 38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40 At that time there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left.
42 “Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming. 43 But be sure of this, that if the head of the house had known at what time of the night the thief was coming, he would have been on the alert and would not have allowed his house to be broken into. 44 For this reason you must be ready as well; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will.
45 “Who then is the faithful and sensible slave whom his master put in charge of his household slaves, to give them their food at the proper time? 46 Blessed is that slave whom his [ak]master finds so doing when he comes. 47 Truly I say to you that he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 48 But if that evil slave says in his heart, ‘My master is not coming for a long time,’ 49 and he begins to beat his fellow slaves, and he eats and drinks with those habitually drunk; 50 then the master of that slave will come on a day that he does not expect, and at an hour that he does not know, 51 and he will cut him in two and assign him a place with the hypocrites; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
You may laugh at this, but personally I think the timeline with Genesis also reflects that He is coming within our lifetime. On the fourth day God made the Sun, in the 4 thousandth year, Jesus, the Son of God came in the flesh to give light to the world.
I believe we are coming to two thousand years since Jesus' death and resurrection, and that He is coming for His church at the end of it. The Seventh thousand years I believe will be the the Millenia in which we rule with Jesus on the earth.
2 Peter 3:8
"With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day."
It is a bit difficult for me to express what I mean, but I believe the Bible has multiple layers of meaning that work together.
Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2026 10:26 am
Elora Lore
I've never heard of him, I'll keep him on the back-burner as a resource!
I don't see the church and Israel as separate either as far as salvation goes. I see them as distinct, as Paul does make distinctions between them and as we both agree, the Jewish people will be grafted back in.
Taking a look at Romans 11: When Paul talks about the Jewish people being grafted back in, he calls them "God's people" and "Israel."
Romans 11:1-2
1 I say then, God has not rejected His people, has He? May it never be! For I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew.
So here as well we see the remnant of those Paul refers to as Israelites. It's clear God has a distinct plan for these that are called Israelites.
Romans 11:7-16
7 What then? What Israel is seeking, it has not obtained, but those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were hardened; [exphasis mine]
8 just as it is written, “GOD GAVE THEM A SPIRIT OF STUPOR, EYES TO SEE NOT AND EARS TO HEAR NOT, DOWN TO THIS VERY DAY.”
9 And David says, “LET THEIR TABLE BECOME A SNARE AND A TRAP, AND A STUMBLING BLOCK AND A RETRIBUTION TO THEM.
10 “LET THEIR EYES BE DARKENED TO SEE NOT, AND BEND THEIR BACKS FOREVER.” 11 I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did they? May it never be! But by their transgression salvation has come to the Gentiles, to make them jealous. 12 Now if their transgression is riches for the world and their failure is riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their fulfillment be! [emphasis mine] 13 But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, 14 if somehow I might move to jealousy my fellow countrymen and save some of them. 15 For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? 16 If the first piece of dough is holy, the lump is also; and if the root is holy, the branches are too. [emphasis mine]
When we look at 1 Peter we see the roles and identity of those in Christ, as it was for the Israelites who trusted in the Messiah before the revelation of Jesus, but to my knowledge Paul doesn't call us Israelites.
1 Peter 2:9-10
9 But you are A CHOSEN PEOPLE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR GOD’S OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 10 for you once were NOT A PEOPLE, but now you are THE PEOPLE OF GOD; you had NOT RECEIVED MERCY, but now you have RECEIVED MERCY.
Paul calls the Jews the natural branches, the gentiles are not natural, but grafted in.
Romans 11:23-24
And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree?
To be clear, the grafting in is not grafting into the Church, the root is not the Church, the root is Christ.
God has a clear plan for those called Israel:
Romans 11:25-27
25 For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in;
26and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written, “THE DELIVERER WILL COME FROM ZION, HE WILL REMOVE UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB.”
27“THIS IS MY COVENANT WITH THEM, WHEN I TAKE AWAY THEIR SINS.”
28 From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God’s choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers; 29for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30For just as you once were disobedient to God, but now have been shown mercy because of their disobedience, 31so these also now have been disobedient, that because of the mercy shown to you they also may now be shown mercy. 32For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all.
33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways! 34For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, OR WHO BECAME HIS COUNSELOR? 35Or WHO HAS FIRST GIVEN TO HIM THAT IT MIGHT BE PAID BACK TO HIM AGAIN? 36For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever. Amen.
Here it seems like all Israel will be saved once the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. It seems like there will be a day when they will recognize their Messiah. So God's plan is all will be one in Christ, but the working out of that plan for Israel is still to come to fruition after the fullness of the gentiles.
Matthew 23:37-38
37“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who have been sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. 38Behold, your house is being left to you desolate! 39For I say to you, from now on you will not see Me until you say, ‘BLESSED IS THE ONE WHO COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD!’”
It kind of seems like you're trying to debate with me about this, when we essentially agree?
I don't think we need to debate unless you see Israel and the Church as two distinct peoples of God (I do not).
Please clarify.
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Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2026 10:54 am
Elora Lore
Why do you suspect it will be a long time from now? Scripture is clear we will not know the day or the hour, but Jesus forewarns us of what those days will be like right before His coming.
Matthew 24
1 Jesus left the temple area and was going on His way when His disciples came up to point out the temple buildings to Him. 2 But He responded and said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down.”
3 And as He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”
4 And Jesus answered and said to them, “See to it that no one misleads you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will mislead many people. 6 And you will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pains.
9 “Then they will hand you over to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. 10 And at that time many will fall away, and they will betray one another and hate one another. 11 And many false prophets will rise up and mislead many people. 12 And because lawlessness is increased, most people’s love will become cold. 13 But the one who endures to the end is the one who will be saved. 14This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.
15 “Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place—let the reader understand— 16 then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. 17 Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get things out of his house. 18 And whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak. 19 But woe to those women who are pregnant, and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 Moreover, pray that when you flee, it will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath. 21 For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will again. 22 And if those days had not been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the [r]elect those days will be cut short. 23 Then if anyone says to you, ‘Behold, here is the Christ,’ or ‘He is over here,’ do not believe him. 24 For false christs and false prophets will arise and will provide great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect. 25 Behold, I have told you in advance. 26 So if they say to you, ‘Behold, He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Behold, He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe them. 27 For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes as far as the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28 Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.
29 “But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory. 31 And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET BLAST, and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.
32 “Now learn the parable from the fig tree: as soon as its branch has become tender and sprouts its leaves, you know that summer is near; 33 so you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.
36 “But about that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. 37 For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. 38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40 At that time there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left.
42 “Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming. 43 But be sure of this, that if the head of the house had known at what time of the night the thief was coming, he would have been on the alert and would not have allowed his house to be broken into. 44 For this reason you must be ready as well; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will.
45 “Who then is the faithful and sensible slave whom his master put in charge of his household slaves, to give them their food at the proper time? 46 Blessed is that slave whom his [ak]master finds so doing when he comes. 47 Truly I say to you that he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 48 But if that evil slave says in his heart, ‘My master is not coming for a long time,’ 49 and he begins to beat his fellow slaves, and he eats and drinks with those habitually drunk; 50 then the master of that slave will come on a day that he does not expect, and at an hour that he does not know, 51 and he will cut him in two and assign him a place with the hypocrites; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
You may laugh at this, but personally I think the timeline with Genesis also reflects that He is coming within our lifetime. On the fourth day God made the Sun, in the 4 thousandth year, Jesus, the Son of God came in the flesh to give light to the world.
I believe we are coming to two thousand years since Jesus' death and resurrection, and that He is coming for His church at the end of it. The Seventh thousand years I believe will be the the Millenia in which we rule with Jesus on the earth.
2 Peter 3:8
"With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day."
It is a bit difficult for me to express what I mean, but I believe the Bible has multiple layers of meaning that work together.
I mean this with no disrespect, but...
Countless Christians in the past have been convinced that they would see Jesus' return in their day, and they pointed to the signs of the times in their days. Every generation has seen wars, disasters, and moral decline. There have been horrific times in history, too. Look at 536 AD, or The Black Death in 1300s Europe. So...
...what makes our time different?
I'm not going to laugh at you. That is disrespectful and a violation of our Code of Conduct. You're also my friend.
What I will say is that that's an interesting interpretation of historical events with Genesis. It's elegant, because I'm assuming that means that the 1000-year reign of Jesus would be the seventh millennium (seven-thousand correlated with the Sabbath on the seventh day).
I completely disagree with it, though.
But...supposing that your timeline is correct, Jesus won't be returning until well into the 2000s. We are at the beginning of this millennium, so it wouldn't be happening anytime soon, even by your timeline, would it?
Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2026 8:32 am
Scarlet_Teardrops
Elora Lore
I've never heard of him, I'll keep him on the back-burner as a resource!
I don't see the church and Israel as separate either as far as salvation goes. I see them as distinct, as Paul does make distinctions between them and as we both agree, the Jewish people will be grafted back in.
Taking a look at Romans 11: When Paul talks about the Jewish people being grafted back in, he calls them "God's people" and "Israel."
Romans 11:1-2
1 I say then, God has not rejected His people, has He? May it never be! For I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew.
So here as well we see the remnant of those Paul refers to as Israelites. It's clear God has a distinct plan for these that are called Israelites.
Romans 11:7-16
7 What then? What Israel is seeking, it has not obtained, but those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were hardened; [exphasis mine]
8 just as it is written, “GOD GAVE THEM A SPIRIT OF STUPOR, EYES TO SEE NOT AND EARS TO HEAR NOT, DOWN TO THIS VERY DAY.”
9 And David says, “LET THEIR TABLE BECOME A SNARE AND A TRAP, AND A STUMBLING BLOCK AND A RETRIBUTION TO THEM.
10 “LET THEIR EYES BE DARKENED TO SEE NOT, AND BEND THEIR BACKS FOREVER.” 11 I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did they? May it never be! But by their transgression salvation has come to the Gentiles, to make them jealous. 12 Now if their transgression is riches for the world and their failure is riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their fulfillment be! [emphasis mine] 13 But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, 14 if somehow I might move to jealousy my fellow countrymen and save some of them. 15 For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? 16 If the first piece of dough is holy, the lump is also; and if the root is holy, the branches are too. [emphasis mine]
When we look at 1 Peter we see the roles and identity of those in Christ, as it was for the Israelites who trusted in the Messiah before the revelation of Jesus, but to my knowledge Paul doesn't call us Israelites.
1 Peter 2:9-10
9 But you are A CHOSEN PEOPLE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR GOD’S OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 10 for you once were NOT A PEOPLE, but now you are THE PEOPLE OF GOD; you had NOT RECEIVED MERCY, but now you have RECEIVED MERCY.
Paul calls the Jews the natural branches, the gentiles are not natural, but grafted in.
Romans 11:23-24
And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree?
To be clear, the grafting in is not grafting into the Church, the root is not the Church, the root is Christ.
God has a clear plan for those called Israel:
Romans 11:25-27
25 For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in;
26and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written, “THE DELIVERER WILL COME FROM ZION, HE WILL REMOVE UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB.”
27“THIS IS MY COVENANT WITH THEM, WHEN I TAKE AWAY THEIR SINS.”
28 From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God’s choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers; 29for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30For just as you once were disobedient to God, but now have been shown mercy because of their disobedience, 31so these also now have been disobedient, that because of the mercy shown to you they also may now be shown mercy. 32For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all.
33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways! 34For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, OR WHO BECAME HIS COUNSELOR? 35Or WHO HAS FIRST GIVEN TO HIM THAT IT MIGHT BE PAID BACK TO HIM AGAIN? 36For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever. Amen.
Here it seems like all Israel will be saved once the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. It seems like there will be a day when they will recognize their Messiah. So God's plan is all will be one in Christ, but the working out of that plan for Israel is still to come to fruition after the fullness of the gentiles.
Matthew 23:37-38
37“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who have been sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. 38Behold, your house is being left to you desolate! 39For I say to you, from now on you will not see Me until you say, ‘BLESSED IS THE ONE WHO COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD!’”
It kind of seems like you're trying to debate with me about this, when we essentially agree?
I don't think we need to debate unless you see Israel and the Church as two distinct peoples of God (I do not).
Please clarify.
What’s the difference between debate and discussion?
I thought I was clarifying what I believe through the scripture references. sweatdrop I think God still has plans for Israel. Method of salvation is the same in Christ. Timing is different.
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Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2026 9:07 am
Scarlet_Teardrops
Elora Lore
Why do you suspect it will be a long time from now? Scripture is clear we will not know the day or the hour, but Jesus forewarns us of what those days will be like right before His coming.
Matthew 24
1 Jesus left the temple area and was going on His way when His disciples came up to point out the temple buildings to Him. 2 But He responded and said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down.”
3 And as He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”
4 And Jesus answered and said to them, “See to it that no one misleads you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will mislead many people. 6 And you will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pains.
9 “Then they will hand you over to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. 10 And at that time many will fall away, and they will betray one another and hate one another. 11 And many false prophets will rise up and mislead many people. 12 And because lawlessness is increased, most people’s love will become cold. 13 But the one who endures to the end is the one who will be saved. 14This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.
15 “Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place—let the reader understand— 16 then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. 17 Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get things out of his house. 18 And whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak. 19 But woe to those women who are pregnant, and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 Moreover, pray that when you flee, it will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath. 21 For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will again. 22 And if those days had not been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the [r]elect those days will be cut short. 23 Then if anyone says to you, ‘Behold, here is the Christ,’ or ‘He is over here,’ do not believe him. 24 For false christs and false prophets will arise and will provide great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect. 25 Behold, I have told you in advance. 26 So if they say to you, ‘Behold, He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Behold, He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe them. 27 For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes as far as the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28 Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.
29 “But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory. 31 And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET BLAST, and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.
32 “Now learn the parable from the fig tree: as soon as its branch has become tender and sprouts its leaves, you know that summer is near; 33 so you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.
36 “But about that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. 37 For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. 38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40 At that time there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left.
42 “Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming. 43 But be sure of this, that if the head of the house had known at what time of the night the thief was coming, he would have been on the alert and would not have allowed his house to be broken into. 44 For this reason you must be ready as well; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will.
45 “Who then is the faithful and sensible slave whom his master put in charge of his household slaves, to give them their food at the proper time? 46 Blessed is that slave whom his [ak]master finds so doing when he comes. 47 Truly I say to you that he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 48 But if that evil slave says in his heart, ‘My master is not coming for a long time,’ 49 and he begins to beat his fellow slaves, and he eats and drinks with those habitually drunk; 50 then the master of that slave will come on a day that he does not expect, and at an hour that he does not know, 51 and he will cut him in two and assign him a place with the hypocrites; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
You may laugh at this, but personally I think the timeline with Genesis also reflects that He is coming within our lifetime. On the fourth day God made the Sun, in the 4 thousandth year, Jesus, the Son of God came in the flesh to give light to the world.
I believe we are coming to two thousand years since Jesus' death and resurrection, and that He is coming for His church at the end of it. The Seventh thousand years I believe will be the the Millenia in which we rule with Jesus on the earth.
2 Peter 3:8
"With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day."
It is a bit difficult for me to express what I mean, but I believe the Bible has multiple layers of meaning that work together.
I mean this with no disrespect, but...
Countless Christians in the past have been convinced that they would see Jesus' return in their day, and they pointed to the signs of the times in their days. Every generation has seen wars, disasters, and moral decline. There have been horrific times in history, too. Look at 536 AD, or The Black Death in 1300s Europe. So...
...what makes our time different?
I'm not going to laugh at you. That is disrespectful and a violation of our Code of Conduct. You're also my friend.
What I will say is that that's an interesting interpretation of historical events with Genesis. It's elegant, because I'm assuming that means that the 1000-year reign of Jesus would be the seventh millennium (seven-thousand correlated with the Sabbath on the seventh day).
I completely disagree with it, though.
But...supposing that your timeline is correct, Jesus won't be returning until well into the 2000s. We are at the beginning of this millennium, so it wouldn't be happening anytime soon, even by your timeline, would it?
Oh yeah, I’m well aware that Christians have been convinced Jesus would come in their day…and we’re closer now than we were before! Heheh
I wouldn’t say I’m convinced, (because how can one know for sure?) but we are now living in a largely post-Christian world where evil is called good, and good, evil. On a scale, I would wonder, that is similar to the days of Noah in it’s deviation from God. (Trans-humanism being one interesting parallel I see.)
I see a lot of openly demonic things in the public sphere that used to be hidden, and it’s met largely with acceptance. (I thank God it’s not everything, like the horror of the Epstein files, but there’s hypocrisy even then in the acceptance of abortion. And thus far there’s no justice for the horror being done to those children even though it’s been brought to light.)
If the Satanists have their way, from what I understand the one-world religion is slated for 2027 on their timeline.
I’m a bit confused about your comment on my timeline. I’m speaking 2000 years since the resurrection, which is coming up what, within the next 5 years or so? That would be my thinking if Jesus came approx 4BC?
It would be nice to be raptured before agenda 2030 hits. But it might also mean death from persecution before then too. Either way we go to be with the Lord.
Eschatologically I hold to these things loosely. Ultimately, whatever happens I don’t believe we will experience the wrath of God. So however that plays out~ But His coming is immanent so I’m happy of He wants to come today! Maranatha! xd
