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Willful Sin

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Jaedana

PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2022 12:10 pm


At church the other day the pastor said we can willfully sin it is okay because we are forgiven. That there is no reason to repent when we sin. Jesus would be a liar if we are condemned for any sin.

I have heard this before from this man I know.
I know as we get closer to Christ we do not want to sin. But to me willful sin just does not sound right.
What do you think?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 6:00 pm


Samsora Jade
At church the other day the pastor said we can willfully sin it is okay because we are forgiven. That there is no reason to repent when we sin. Jesus would be a liar if we are condemned for any sin.

I have heard this before from this man I know.
I know as we get closer to Christ we do not want to sin. But to me willful sin just does not sound right.
What do you think?


This is an idea I've heard in my life as well. I've heard the whole, "Jesus loves me and will forgive me no matter what," but from what I've researched - this can't be true.

I agree with your gut that it doesn't sound right because of course, as you've mentioned, we want to get closer to Christ and not sin.

We are told that there are those that won't enter the Kingdom of Heaven in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 NIV:

Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

------------------

If those that are saved could sin and do whatever sinful desires they want, that goes against God's words. We're told that there are those that won't inherit the kingdom of God/Heaven. If we don't pray and ask for forgiveness when we do sin and keep sinning - that is someone who is unrepentant. Those with unrepentant hearts aren't going to inherit the Kingdom of God. We are called to repent and this idea ignores that.

This idea sounds like it comes from people that a lot of the times haven't fully devoted themselves to God. Perhaps the people that converted to Christianity and were like, "Now what?" without adequate follow up and support or those that want the Christian label in hopes of being saved, but want to promote the things they want. Perhaps they have the idea, but haven't been told or taught otherwise.

This reminds me of a well thought out sermon called Hell's Best Kept Secret and it truly is worth a listen and it's a free resource! (no downloads required, stream is available on the webpage):

https://www.livingwaters.com/hells-best-kept-secret/


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Jaedana

PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 4:26 am


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Samsora Jade
At church the other day the pastor said we can willfully sin it is okay because we are forgiven. That there is no reason to repent when we sin. Jesus would be a liar if we are condemned for any sin.

I have heard this before from this man I know.
I know as we get closer to Christ we do not want to sin. But to me willful sin just does not sound right.
What do you think?


This is an idea I've heard in my life as well. I've heard the whole, "Jesus loves me and will forgive me no matter what," but from what I've researched - this can't be true.

I agree with your gut that it doesn't sound right because of course, as you've mentioned, we want to get closer to Christ and not sin.

We are told that there are those that won't enter the Kingdom of Heaven in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 NIV:

Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

------------------

If those that are saved could sin and do whatever sinful desires they want, that goes against God's words. We're told that there are those that won't inherit the kingdom of God/Heaven. If we don't pray and ask for forgiveness when we do sin and keep sinning - that is someone who is unrepentant. Those with unrepentant hearts aren't going to inherit the Kingdom of God. We are called to repent and this idea ignores that.

This idea sounds like it comes from people that a lot of the times haven't fully devoted themselves to God. Perhaps the people that converted to Christianity and were like, "Now what?" without adequate follow up and support or those that want the Christian label in hopes of being saved, but want to promote the things they want. Perhaps they have the idea, but haven't been told or taught otherwise.

This reminds me of a well thought out sermon called Hell's Best Kept Secret and it truly is worth a listen and it's a free resource! (no downloads required, stream is available on the webpage):

https://www.livingwaters.com/hells-best-kept-secret/


Thank you so much. And I like living waters, it is nice. I have subscribed to them, now.
You are a big help. biggrin
PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 3:48 pm


Samsora Jade
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Samsora Jade
At church the other day the pastor said we can willfully sin it is okay because we are forgiven. That there is no reason to repent when we sin. Jesus would be a liar if we are condemned for any sin.

I have heard this before from this man I know.
I know as we get closer to Christ we do not want to sin. But to me willful sin just does not sound right.
What do you think?


This is an idea I've heard in my life as well. I've heard the whole, "Jesus loves me and will forgive me no matter what," but from what I've researched - this can't be true.

I agree with your gut that it doesn't sound right because of course, as you've mentioned, we want to get closer to Christ and not sin.

We are told that there are those that won't enter the Kingdom of Heaven in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 NIV:

Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

------------------

If those that are saved could sin and do whatever sinful desires they want, that goes against God's words. We're told that there are those that won't inherit the kingdom of God/Heaven. If we don't pray and ask for forgiveness when we do sin and keep sinning - that is someone who is unrepentant. Those with unrepentant hearts aren't going to inherit the Kingdom of God. We are called to repent and this idea ignores that.

This idea sounds like it comes from people that a lot of the times haven't fully devoted themselves to God. Perhaps the people that converted to Christianity and were like, "Now what?" without adequate follow up and support or those that want the Christian label in hopes of being saved, but want to promote the things they want. Perhaps they have the idea, but haven't been told or taught otherwise.

This reminds me of a well thought out sermon called Hell's Best Kept Secret and it truly is worth a listen and it's a free resource! (no downloads required, stream is available on the webpage):

https://www.livingwaters.com/hells-best-kept-secret/


Thank you so much. And I like living waters, it is nice. I have subscribed to them, now.
You are a big help. biggrin


You're welcome biggrin hope you are finding the answers that you're searching for!


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2022 11:52 am


I'd like to chime into the conversation to add what I've learned through orthodoxy. The church views sin differently than in Protestantism in that sin is something that strays us further from the Eucharist or path to being closer with Christ our God or rather is due to us straying from it. We are led into temptations of the flesh and we ask Christ to forgive us of our transgressions both known and unknown.

When talking to my priest regarding this subject during a coffee hour he had mentioned that we are compelled to do such things when in moments we are not filled with the Holy Spirit or when we are straying too far from it, so a man that strays from the Holy Spirit is more inclined to do bad things. This is a more mystical approach to it but find it fall in line with my first point of straying from or being strayed from the Eucharist.

Be the bee has a good discussion on this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hduyBIB4n0Q

Another great resource: https://slife.org/sin-definition-for-christians/

John 1:8-10 covers the subject quite well:
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

Also John 3:6-8:
4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

I plan sometime soon to visit my local monastery to ask one of the monks to better understand this myself as they may have a different answer to this. I hope that what I said helps somewhat although it may be a bit confusing if you're unfamiliar with some orthodox terminology.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2022 1:20 am


MaterialFuture
I'd like to chime into the conversation to add what I've learned through orthodoxy. The church views sin differently than in Protestantism in that sin is something that strays us further from the Eucharist or path to being closer with Christ our God or rather is due to us straying from it. We are led into temptations of the flesh and we ask Christ to forgive us of our transgressions both known and unknown.

When talking to my priest regarding this subject during a coffee hour he had mentioned that we are compelled to do such things when in moments we are not filled with the Holy Spirit or when we are straying too far from it, so a man that strays from the Holy Spirit is more inclined to do bad things. This is a more mystical approach to it but find it fall in line with my first point of straying from or being strayed from the Eucharist.

Be the bee has a good discussion on this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hduyBIB4n0Q

Another great resource: https://slife.org/sin-definition-for-christians/

John 1:8-10 covers the subject quite well:
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

Also John 3:6-8:
4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

I plan sometime soon to visit my local monastery to ask one of the monks to better understand this myself as they may have a different answer to this. I hope that what I said helps somewhat although it may be a bit confusing if you're unfamiliar with some orthodox terminology.


Thank you for the resources. I do not know anything at all about orthodox terminology at all. Thank you for taking the time to post to help me understand.

Jaedana

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