So things have come to head here. Our puppy is trained as far as peeing outside, but pooping is still an issue. I can get her to poop outside if I watch her closely and put her out often, and if I go outside with her and stay outside for a while, but she has one spot in the house she has designated as her poop area. My strategy has been to keep her out of that area so it's not an issue, but my wife wants her to be trained, period. I'm usually in charge of the puppy so the issue doesn't come up that often. This morning my wife got up early with the pup and let her in that area and she got in the poop stance, and long story short she chased her into bed where I was sleeping and I ended up with a huge bloody scratch behind my ear.
Now the wife says we *have* to have a crate. I have resisted this because I am not a jailer, and the pup cries and cries when she is put in a room by herself for just half an hour. I can't see putting her in a crate. She's a puppy and is it really right to lock up an adolescent? It just seems wrong to me and don't want anything to do with it. She's never been crated and to introduce it at 8 months old seems cruel to me. So I'd like to hear from those who have experience with this.
Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 10:27 pm
Actually, crate training is a good idea even if potty training weren't an issue.
Its only a bad, cruel thing if done wrong. Done correctly, a dog will come to see a crate as a safe, private and comfortable GOOD place. A place they can go to get away from stress, a place they can relax and all other things stop.
My dog knows that if there is a lot going on in the house that he doesn't want to deal with, he can go to his crate and if anyone, like visiting kids, tries to mess with him when he has gone there, THEY will get reprimanded (its one of the first rules any guest in my home gets: If the dog goes to the crate you do not bother him, that is his place.)
It also makes traveling, vet trips and emergencies far less stressful and traumatic if the dog has already learned that containment is not a bad thing. That they're safe and secure in a pen, that it isn't punishment. A dog that has never been crated, but is suddenly required to be kenneled at a vet, a boarding facility, a crate for transport, ect... Will face a LOT more stress and may potentially end up seriously injuring themselves trying to escape. Its best they learn early, in a safe and familiar environment.
What I do to crate train, is I first leave the crate out in the open, door open and don't close it. I hide high value treats in the crate to encourage the dog to check it out. I'll tuck a new toy in it now and then. The dog learns its safe and rewarding going in and out of the crate. Gradually, I'll close the door behind the dog, just for a few moments, if the dog fusses I ignore it. As soon as they calm down, I slip them a high value reward into the crate and if they remain calm for another few seconds, I open the door. The dog learns that the crate is still safe and waiting patiently until the door opens results in another good thing. When I start leaving them for longer lengths of time, I start leaving high value chew toys that they can ONLY have in the crate. When they leave the crate, the chew toy is taken away. When they go back in, they can have it back.
Once they're comfortable with the crate, under no circumstances is the dog permitted to be bothered when crated. If they go in, any training, play, reprimand, ect. Stops entirely. It is their place. When I go to let them out, I'm quiet and don't make a big deal about it. Once they're out and had their stretch, then I greet them.
A crate is only a bad thing if you make it one or misuse it. Used and introduced correctly, its invaluable to the well-being of the dog. smile
ETA: You are right to try and prevent the dog from going to that spot though. Prevention is a BIG part of potty training. Your wife permitting access to the spot, and thus accidents, will prolong potty training. Using a really good cleaning product, like citrus scented nature's miracle, will help reduce the dog's desire to re-use the area by removing most of the scent of their past accidents and whatever encouraged them to use that spot in the first place, but ultimately breaking the habit by removing access will be the most effective (but I'd still give the area a good scrub down). Hope that helps, good luck. smile
StrawberryGumiho
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Lycanthropos
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Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 5:51 am
StrawberryGumiho
Actually, crate training is a good idea even if potty training weren't an issue.
Its only a bad, cruel thing if done wrong. Done correctly, a dog will come to see a crate as a safe, private and comfortable GOOD place. A place they can go to get away from stress, a place they can relax and all other things stop.
My dog knows that if there is a lot going on in the house that he doesn't want to deal with, he can go to his crate and if anyone, like visiting kids, tries to mess with him when he has gone there, THEY will get reprimanded (its one of the first rules any guest in my home gets: If the dog goes to the crate you do not bother him, that is his place.)
It also makes traveling, vet trips and emergencies far less stressful and traumatic if the dog has already learned that containment is not a bad thing. That they're safe and secure in a pen, that it isn't punishment. A dog that has never been crated, but is suddenly required to be kenneled at a vet, a boarding facility, a crate for transport, ect... Will face a LOT more stress and may potentially end up seriously injuring themselves trying to escape. Its best they learn early, in a safe and familiar environment.
What I do to crate train, is I first leave the crate out in the open, door open and don't close it. I hide high value treats in the crate to encourage the dog to check it out. I'll tuck a new toy in it now and then. The dog learns its safe and rewarding going in and out of the crate. Gradually, I'll close the door behind the dog, just for a few moments, if the dog fusses I ignore it. As soon as they calm down, I slip them a high value reward into the crate and if they remain calm for another few seconds, I open the door. The dog learns that the crate is still safe and waiting patiently until the door opens results in another good thing. When I start leaving them for longer lengths of time, I start leaving high value chew toys that they can ONLY have in the crate. When they leave the crate, the chew toy is taken away. When they go back in, they can have it back.
Once they're comfortable with the crate, under no circumstances is the dog permitted to be bothered when crated. If they go in, any training, play, reprimand, ect. Stops entirely. It is their place. When I go to let them out, I'm quiet and don't make a big deal about it. Once they're out and had their stretch, then I greet them.
A crate is only a bad thing if you make it one or misuse it. Used and introduced correctly, its invaluable to the well-being of the dog. smile
ETA: You are right to try and prevent the dog from going to that spot though. Prevention is a BIG part of potty training. Your wife permitting access to the spot, and thus accidents, will prolong potty training. Using a really good cleaning product, like citrus scented nature's miracle, will help reduce the dog's desire to re-use the area by removing most of the scent of their past accidents and whatever encouraged them to use that spot in the first place, but ultimately breaking the habit by removing access will be the most effective (but I'd still give the area a good scrub down).
Hope that helps, good luck. smile
Very valuable info... Thanks!
Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2015 12:15 am
StrawberryGumiho
Actually, crate training is a good idea even if potty training weren't an issue.
Its only a bad, cruel thing if done wrong. Done correctly, a dog will come to see a crate as a safe, private and comfortable GOOD place. A place they can go to get away from stress, a place they can relax and all other things stop.
My dog knows that if there is a lot going on in the house that he doesn't want to deal with, he can go to his crate and if anyone, like visiting kids, tries to mess with him when he has gone there, THEY will get reprimanded (its one of the first rules any guest in my home gets: If the dog goes to the crate you do not bother him, that is his place.)
It also makes traveling, vet trips and emergencies far less stressful and traumatic if the dog has already learned that containment is not a bad thing. That they're safe and secure in a pen, that it isn't punishment. A dog that has never been crated, but is suddenly required to be kenneled at a vet, a boarding facility, a crate for transport, ect... Will face a LOT more stress and may potentially end up seriously injuring themselves trying to escape. Its best they learn early, in a safe and familiar environment.
What I do to crate train, is I first leave the crate out in the open, door open and don't close it. I hide high value treats in the crate to encourage the dog to check it out. I'll tuck a new toy in it now and then. The dog learns its safe and rewarding going in and out of the crate. Gradually, I'll close the door behind the dog, just for a few moments, if the dog fusses I ignore it. As soon as they calm down, I slip them a high value reward into the crate and if they remain calm for another few seconds, I open the door. The dog learns that the crate is still safe and waiting patiently until the door opens results in another good thing. When I start leaving them for longer lengths of time, I start leaving high value chew toys that they can ONLY have in the crate. When they leave the crate, the chew toy is taken away. When they go back in, they can have it back.
Once they're comfortable with the crate, under no circumstances is the dog permitted to be bothered when crated. If they go in, any training, play, reprimand, ect. Stops entirely. It is their place. When I go to let them out, I'm quiet and don't make a big deal about it. Once they're out and had their stretch, then I greet them.
A crate is only a bad thing if you make it one or misuse it. Used and introduced correctly, its invaluable to the well-being of the dog. smile
ETA: You are right to try and prevent the dog from going to that spot though. Prevention is a BIG part of potty training. Your wife permitting access to the spot, and thus accidents, will prolong potty training. Using a really good cleaning product, like citrus scented nature's miracle, will help reduce the dog's desire to re-use the area by removing most of the scent of their past accidents and whatever encouraged them to use that spot in the first place, but ultimately breaking the habit by removing access will be the most effective (but I'd still give the area a good scrub down). Hope that helps, good luck. smile
For some reason, the phrase "high value" in reference to chew toys and doggie treats is really amusing me. It's giving me a mental picture of dogs in business suits that look like they're trading stocks or something, but when you look closer, they're actually photos of treats and chew toys. xd
*ahem* Anyway. This is really interesting info and very helpful! My parents believed that the way to train your pets was mostly just to smack them when they did the wrong thing, which really didn't end up being a very effective method. I'm planning to look for a dog at some point in the future and have heard that using a crate could be really good for dogs, but I had no idea how to get the dog to know that. xd
When I was a kid, we had a pretty big German Shepherd that we got as a puppy. My parents had a really hard time with him in his adolescence. They couldn't leave him in the house alone at that age because he tore everything up and pooped inside, but when they put him in the backyard he'd just jump over or dig under the fence. They eventually filled the hole under the fence with cement because replacing the dirt was useless, but when he kept hopping over, they built him a GIANT crate.
They made a foundation slab of concrete... like 15 or 20 feet square... and built a kennel on it with chain-link fencing. It was basically a big topless cube; the sides were way too high for any dog to jump over. They put a big tarp over half of it for shade, they put his dog house in there, and they also put in a kiddie pool that they filled every day for him to play in, in addition to his water bucket and toys. That thing was awesome; I used to play in there with my friend all the time! One of my most vivid childhood memories is my friend and me in there, tossing Barbie dolls in the air and catching them, and then I miss the doll and she comes down at juuuust the wrong angle and snaps one of my teeth in half. gonk It was a permanent tooth, so I've still got the cap on it! xd
Anyway, the dog didn't like the kennel as much. First, he learned how to open the dog-proof latch. At first, my parents were convinced that they must have not latched it all the way, but after the second or third time, he broke it, and they realized he was just a genius. So then they started wrapping a chain around the door to keep it closed. So he took the door off its hinges on the other side. When they put a chain around that side too, he pushed the ENTIRE kennel off the foundation and squeezed out underneath it. burning_eyes
That dog was dedicated. sweatdrop He was actually a really good dog once he got a little older and calmed down. After a year or two we were able to leave him in the house when we were gone. But I bet that first period of time would've gone better with some training like that!
I opted to hold off on the crate for a few weeks, just to see if I could house train the pup on my own. Sure enough, she did come around. My friend who has had many many dogs told me that the pup would also learn from our older, already house trained dog. I left the pee-pee pads on the floor for quite a while just to be sure.
She quit peeing in the house first, but kept pooping indoors, so that's why I left the pads so long, even though she didn't always use the pads for poop. Luckily she never had a messy poop. She would occasionally still do a nighttime pee indoors as she is timid about going outside at night by herself. I just resolved myself that I have to go out with her for her final pee and that solved the issue. Two weeks after finding the last poop I took up the pads, and I haven't found any mess since.
She's perfectly comfortable everywhere in the house, though she prefers to stay with me or the older dog. She rarely ventures in the fenced backyard by herself, and when she does go alone, she usually stays close to the house. If a person or the other dog goes out with her, she runs and plays and has a great time. She also barks at people, a lot. Other than the three humans who live in the house, if anyone else comes into our space, even people who come with some regularity, she barks and/or growls at them. I take her most places I go in the car, so she gets a lot of exposure to people. I'm wondering if it's because she's small.
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