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Reply Disc: Elder Dragon Highlander:
Philosophy in approaching EDH

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Dark-oneechan

Gracious Grabber

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:44 am


I know every play group has expectations and sometimes houserules. I also know we all each have our own styles and philosophy around deck construction.

I'm still new to the EDH format and wanted to compare notes on philosophy pertaining to approach this format.

The group that introduced me told me the following:

1) You like old cards, you can play them in this format
2) It's a slower format so you can try less lethal things

I'm predominantly a vintage player. So I tend to have the attitude that budget is irrelevant. If I am going to play an effect, lets play it optimally. This serves me well top 8ing at eternal events. But this is a casual format.

So I am curious as mentioned to how my short list of things I try to achieve in any EDH deck I design stack up against the wider community, they are as follows:

1) I want to take terrible old cards with hilarious potential and break them into functioning (eg: naked singularity, caltrops)

2) I want to play magic the way it used to be played. I want to kill with crazy spell interactions, artifacts and enchantments. Creature beats is modern magic, where is the fun in that?

3) if I must combo, I shall do it in such a stupid way as to be headdesk worthy.

4) I will utilise all the resources at my disposal to ensure the deck works from stalling tactics, the entire card pool and irrelevant budget. I want to show the younger players what amazing cards there are out there other than those in standard.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:26 pm


That's interesting. Very different to my approach, to the extent that I have a single codified approach.

I really don't care about oldschool vs modern in any way. I came to magic with a great deal of prior TCG experience so maybe that has something to do with it.

I like creatures. I like them best when they're utility/control of some kind, preferably recursive, but I also have no problem turning dudes sideways.

More than anything I like interaction. Not social interaction between players so much, though there's nothing wrong with that, but mechanical interaction. Within a deck and between decks. I like the back and forth of things happening and that is more vibrant and interesting in EDH than any other format.

I like to have a multi faceted engine but I want it to be an efficient and powerful engine. Speculative 5 card comboes can be amusing but the 5 cards absolutely must do something useful seperately.

epiclevelwarrior

Bashful Browser


Silverfin

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:02 pm


To me, EDH is a lot about redundancy and sustainability.

Since most games will be multiplayer, your main plan of attack has to be repeatable if you want to win, so multiple cards with similar effects are absolutely necessary. It obviously makes your deck more consistent as well.

Flashy is good; threatening is not. Again, since most games are more than two people, I like to build up a board presence without setting off any alarms or drawing fire. Cards that help everyone, like Howling Mine or Baby Jace's +2 ability, tend to make people stay off of you for at least a few turns since they want to benefit from your cards. EDH early game tends to be a lot of politics, waiting for someone to make the first attack. If you can convince the other players to stay off of you, or do some things to help them out, they'll be less aggressive towards you.

Maybe that's just my playgroup, though. They are ridiculously easy to turn against each other.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:52 pm


Reusability has been MAJOR in every game I've played. Cards with Buyback, Flashback, or some other kind of "reuse" ability I've found absolutely amazing. The larger mana pools makes playing things like Shattering Pulse and Capsize TOTAL problems for opponents.

Though I have to say, control is all that I'm about, any kind of control. My deck runs things like Vindicate, Wrecking Ball, and Mortify. Cards that have multiple uses (ie. Cryptic Command, Austere Command, Charms) are invaluable also.

One nice little combo I've noticed works with Living Death and It That Betrays. Because of the wording on Living Death, you gain control of all creatures in play permanently when Living Death is played. There are a few other interesting small combos (Hinder/Spell Crumple+Tunnel Vision) and they're insanely good.

Falsequivalence
Crew


epiclevelwarrior

Bashful Browser

PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:40 am


The comboes that essentially take advantage of interactions between completely different eras of game design can be fun.

Leyline of the Void + Helm of Obedience is a good one of those. Also good in that both cards do something by themselves (assuming hating out GY creature recursion is something you want to do.)

I have to say I'm against Howling Mine effects in general. Political advantage is a factor but in the goodwill department it tends to be an overvalued one and I don't see it as worth giving up tangible advantage for. I also think people underestimate just how much advantage you're giving up with Howling Mine effects.

Also, those effects don't even generate goodwill from every player. I dislike Howling Mines even more when someone else plays them than when I do.

What I do like for managing impressions is cards that come out scary but are quite easily dealt with. Taurean Mauler is a great example. It generates an initial "crap we need to deal with that" reaction but dealing with it is ultimately very easy. The reason this is good, impression wise, is that it frees you of the "he hasn't played anything so he must be up to no good" assessment and also puts you into the "he played that and we handled it so he's not too dangerous" slot which is a good place to be when it comes to being ignored as a target.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:33 am


epiclevelwarrior
I also think people underestimate just how much advantage you're giving up with Howling Mine effects.
Giving up advantage means looking less threatening. I don't rely on the Howling Mine to fill my hand, and I can usually respond appropriately if someone gets out of hand. In highly political games like EDH, I am completely fine with giving up some advantage in order to buy myself some isolation. My EDH game is typically more reserved and reactionary instead of aggressive, so this works for me in most games.

I use Standstill in a similar way to your use of Taurean Mauler. It's a really good card for recruiting people to punish aggressive players while drawing attention off of yourself. Drawing three cards is a ridiculously good effect, but playing a spell is a lot more visible so people don't always react the way they should.

Silverfin


Falsequivalence
Crew

PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 2:14 pm


Decree of Silence+ Some Proliferate abilities= Opponents never play anything ever again.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 2:57 pm


Fatestitcher
Decree of Silence+ Some Proliferate abilities= Opponents never play anything ever again.
You want Chisei, Heart of Oceans, Giant Fan, and friends instead of proliferate.

Silverfin


Falsequivalence
Crew

PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 3:33 pm


yeah, read Decree of Silence wrong.
Still the right idea though!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 4:43 pm


Silverfin
Giving up advantage means looking less threatening. I don't rely on the Howling Mine to fill my hand, and I can usually respond appropriately if someone gets out of hand. In highly political games like EDH, I am completely fine with giving up some advantage in order to buy myself some isolation. My EDH game is typically more reserved and reactionary instead of aggressive, so this works for me in most games.


If that works for you, that's great. It hasn't worked that way in my experience. I guess it depends on whether your opponents look at your HM as giving them a free card every turn, or as giving their opponents a free card every turn. In my experience, it's the latter.

Sliverfin

I use Standstill in a similar way to your use of Taurean Mauler. It's a really good card for recruiting people to punish aggressive players while drawing attention off of yourself. Drawing three cards is a ridiculously good effect, but playing a spell is a lot more visible so people don't always react the way they should.


I've heard about Standstill being used like that and I like it. Not sure I'd do it myself but I approve of the concept, certainly.

The group hug type cards I like are ones where you can set up a direct give and take situation. A "you scratch my back I'll scratch yours" deal with a clear beginning and ending.

A good example of this sort of card is the "Advocate" cycle of G and W guys from Judgment. You can say to an opponent "I'll give you your Swords to Plowshares back if you take out his Primeval Titan with it." That sort of bargain is easy to manage because if they take it and screw you, you just don't offer again, and offer to their opponents instead.

Also Spurnmage Advocate is awesome because just by existing he makes you less likely to need to use his ability.

Phelddagriff and his Questing buddy are very good for that sort of thing as well. Forbidden Orchard is a low key version of the same thing.

epiclevelwarrior

Bashful Browser


Falsequivalence
Crew

PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 5:00 pm


I can see why my decks get alot of Aggro

Cards like Painful Quandary, Martyr's Bond, Plague Wind, and Insurrection bring me TONS of aggro due to my "Hurt all opponents equally" tactic rather than the politics.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 5:48 pm


Oh yeah. Making your opponents lose card advantage with every spell they cast or take 5 to the face is tough.

It's interesting what gets hated and what doesn't in different metas and games.

One card that's almost sure to draw fire is Luminarch Ascension. Putting big flying bodies into play cheaply would be bad enough but LA turns on when you don't take damage so it basically reads "hit me if you want to live."

epiclevelwarrior

Bashful Browser


Falsequivalence
Crew

PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 5:52 pm


Yep.

Another thing that USED to bring me a lot of aggro was when I was playing R/B/U, and I had Lighthouse Chronologist, Vesuvan Shapeshifter, and a Body Double in play as a copy of Lighthouse Chronologist (Due to me having brought back the Chronologist.) I leveled them all up all the way (partially actually leveling, partially using proliferate and venerated teacher) And I was getting 3 turns for every opponents 1.

And reading some errata for Lighthouse Chronologist showed me that if two players in a multi-player game have a lighthouse Chronologist out that the players without the Chronologist don't get a turn until one of them leaves play.

EDIT: An interesting political ploy would be to have a Homeward Path out and use Zedruu The Greathearted's ability to give an opponent a copy of a level 7 Chronologist.... I haven't tried it, but it would be interesting.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:13 pm


Want some opinions on cards I kinda want to add to my deck...


Braid of Fire
Herald of Leshrac
Phyrexian Etchings


And another card that I can't add to my deck, but I like the idea of:
Tornado

Falsequivalence
Crew


epiclevelwarrior

Bashful Browser

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 3:14 pm


I answered the deck questions on the deck thread.

Tornado: This is a card I've returned to repeatedly as well. The decision I have consistently made is that it's just too expensive to be worth it even though it's an awesome ability.

The life cost and the 3 mana activation wouldn't be so bad, esp if you could leave it sitting on the board as a rattlesnake to get people to leave you alone. The problem is, if you try to do that, the upkeep cost eats up your mana in a few turns. It might be worth it in mono G decks that vomit mana all over the board to such an extent that they'd never even notice the cumulative upkeep but in a deck that is even slightly fair mana generation wise I think you'd be putting into it more than you were getting out of it.

On Lighthouse Chronologist: Yeah, taking extra turns via a permanent is a really good way to get hated. Chronologist is right up there with Luminarch Ascension on the list of cards that will get you beaten on.
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