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 Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:10 pm
My name is Marine (not RL name) I suppose it is aptly so that I call myself this. I do not have much in the way of a religion since I am Agnostic/Deists. However, there are a few things that I do personally believe in and hold dear. I believe that water is the source of all life, whether it be the primordial soup, or the watery solution (ambionic fluid) of the womb. All things need some fashion of liquid to live. To me water is the most simple and pure liquid. I believe that all things have a spirit/life source whether it be a rock or a tree. I believe there is a life there otherwise how can we say "it's dead" when it is gone or ground into a powder?
My goal is to help life, nature, and people. I have been considering witchcraft for some time now. I just need to find the right way. I have been told that it is all based on intent, and not casting spells, or holding the right rituals. I just don't know where all to start, or what path would be best for me.
I know that so many people will more then likely disbelieve what I am to say next. Ever since I was a child I have been able to sense things. I even had a ghost as a child hood friend. While that sixth sense has waned over the years it is still a part of me. I wish to also utilize this in my practice. I believe it is a valuable gift, and could aid in any sort of divination or vise versa.
I have two wonderful friends who have helped me with a ton of research, but even they are unsure of where my path should lie. Both are Pagan in their own right. They advised me to look for something my ancestors might have practiced. On my mother's side I am Scotch-Irish, and on my father's side is German based with the last name of Hatler. At least I think it is German, it might be English. So I have a wide range of crafts I can practice.
I would enjoy working with herbs, and gardening. Right now I am reading the Encyclopedia of Natural Magic, and The Smudging and Blessings Book. I will be moving soon, and I look forward to cleansing our new home.
I need guidance, and ideas. If there is anything else that needs to be known in order to help, please ask.
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Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:56 pm
Sounds like you're an animist, too, so you might check religions that have animism built in.
Your mention of herbs and gardening also makes me think maybe you'll find kitchen witchery, and other sorts of folk magic interesting.
Other than that, my suggest is to read anything that catches your eye. It's the best way to get an idea of what's out there. You do, of course, have to be careful of the fluff, but if you read critically, and corroborate what the author says with other sources, and such, it should become fairly easy to see what is good and what is not with a bit of practice. 3nodding Eventually, you'll stumble across the path that works for you, or have enough information from which to build your own path.
There's so much out there, and honestly, my knowledge of most Pagan topics is pretty limited, so it's hard for me to be more specific than that.
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Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:59 pm
Yeah, I'm not really sure what you're looking for. You've already stated you're not very interested in a religion and that you're a deist... what more are you looking for?
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Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:29 pm
Katefox Tarnagona Sounds like you're an animist, too, so you might check religions that have animism built in. Your mention of herbs and gardening also makes me think maybe you'll find kitchen witchery, and other sorts of folk magic interesting. Other than that, my suggest is to read anything that catches your eye. It's the best way to get an idea of what's out there. You do, of course, have to be careful of the fluff, but if you read critically, and corroborate what the author says with other sources, and such, it should become fairly easy to see what is good and what is not with a bit of practice. 3nodding Eventually, you'll stumble across the path that works for you, or have enough information from which to build your own path. There's so much out there, and honestly, my knowledge of most Pagan topics is pretty limited, so it's hard for me to be more specific than that. Thank you, that is actually a good idea. I have not been able to look any of them up yet. Quote: Yeah, I'm not really sure what you're looking for. You've already stated you're not very interested in a religion and that you're a deist... what more are you looking for? Not entirely sure. From what I'm aware of I don't have to have a faith in order to try my hand at certain crafts such as green witchery. I won't dare touch Wicca because I respect the real Wicca out there and their beliefs. If I am capable of finding a practical craft that falls in line with my beliefs then I suppose that is what I am looking for. If not then I might end up being an eclectic practitioner. Right now I am wondering what all falls under the umbrella I created in my first post. Right now Katefox Tarnagona gave me a great nudge in the right direction. I'm going to do some more personal research and see what I can find within animism based practices and beliefs.
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Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:36 pm
Marine-Kitty Not entirely sure. From what I'm aware of I don't have to have a faith in order to try my hand at certain crafts such as green witchery. I won't dare touch Wicca because I respect the real Wicca out there and their beliefs. If I am capable of finding a practical craft that falls in line with my beliefs then I suppose that is what I am looking for. If not then I might end up being an eclectic practitioner. Right now I am wondering what all falls under the umbrella I created in my first post. Right now Katefox Tarnagona gave me a great nudge in the right direction. I'm going to do some more personal research and see what I can find within animism based practices and beliefs. Ohh... you're more interested in witchcraft than Paganism? We're not really a witchcraft guild, although we do discuss it on occasion, but really there's not much to tell. You build your own craft as you go along. If you wanted to practise magic within the paradigm of a Pagan religion such as Irish polytheism of Heathenry you'd have to research the religion anyway... I mean unless you have a passion for runes there's no real reason to go back to historical magic that long ago. You may as well go back just 100 years and see what was floating around then.
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Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:00 pm
I'm sorry! I do realize that I was using the wrong wordage. Yes, I was more interested in witchcraft, but now that you have mentioned Irish polytheism I will be sure to look into that as well. I'm not against following religions that my ancestors might have practiced. After all to me that might as well be a link to my past and a part of who I am.
Christianity has only been introduced into my family with the past two or three generations. Unfortunately the only person who might have known what my family might have practiced passed away last year.
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Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:20 pm
Marine-Kitty I'm sorry! I do realize that I was using the wrong wordage. Yes, I was more interested in witchcraft, but now that you have mentioned Irish polytheism I will be sure to look into that as well. I'm not against following religions that my ancestors might have practiced. After all to me that might as well be a link to my past and a part of who I am. Christianity has only been introduced into my family with the past two or three generations. Unfortunately the only person who might have known what my family might have practiced passed away last year. Well you mentioned you weren't a theist, so I sort of assumed you wouldn't be interested in polytheistic religions sweatdrop
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Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:29 pm
Sanguina Cruenta Marine-Kitty I'm sorry! I do realize that I was using the wrong wordage. Yes, I was more interested in witchcraft, but now that you have mentioned Irish polytheism I will be sure to look into that as well. I'm not against following religions that my ancestors might have practiced. After all to me that might as well be a link to my past and a part of who I am. Christianity has only been introduced into my family with the past two or three generations. Unfortunately the only person who might have known what my family might have practiced passed away last year. Well you mentioned you weren't a theist, so I sort of assumed you wouldn't be interested in polytheistic religions sweatdrop Honestly, I don't know what I am anymore. I believe in a higher power, I just don't know the right way to show I believe in it. We all get so stuck on labels, and trying to find ways to define ourselves. I say I am what other people have called me (Agnostic/Deism) based on their idea of my beliefs. Some of it is spot on, and some of it isn't.
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Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:50 am
After this discussion was had I found out through the use of the internet that my Great Great Great Grandmother was Cherokee. So this opens up a whole other avenue for me as well. It may not be Pagan, but it was an incredible thing for me to find out.
In the past few days I have learned much about the different tribes of Cherokee, and their cultures. However, I doubt I will be able to learn much about their spirituality and religious work. These are both held very dear and kept secret from the average person.
Strega Mama, and I are both hoping that this genealogy chart I have will be enough for tribal membership. Who knows where it might go from there.
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Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:31 am
Why is ancestry of such importance to you in regard to magical practice?
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Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:46 am
Sanguina Cruenta Why is ancestry of such importance to you in regard to magical practice? I don't want to step on someone's toes. I don't want to say "I'm gonna be a Druid!" when I have no capable way of doing so. Nor the privilege. To put it simply, I don't want to ******** up right as I'm trying to start out.
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Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 5:09 am
Well technically, I don't think anyone has a right to call themselves a Druid. For the rest of it, unless it's a closed culture that interests you, there's no real reason you have to stick to a path with ties to your ancestry. some of us choose it to honor those who came before us and to connect with our ancestors. that doesn't mean those are your only options.
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Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:21 am
Piggy backing off of what Raven said, I would go with what feels right that you have access to. I know you're talking about finding a tradition of witchcraft but its kinda the same as trying to find the right religious path to follow(or atleast what I think). But when I first started out I was trying to look up a bit of anything. I started out looking at Wicca. Then I branched off, since I didn't really any kind of pull toward Wicca, I started looking into Shintoism and Kemeticism. When I found out Shintoism was close culture I stopped trying and focused looking more at Kemeticism. Now none of my family came from Japan or Egypt but it was something that interested me. It wasn't until after I started stumbling around and felt like I was starting to get my footing in Kemeticism that I decided to looking into my ancestry to see what they possibly practiced.
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Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:33 am
Marine-Kitty After this discussion was had I found out through the use of the internet that my Great Great Great Grandmother was Cherokee. So this opens up a whole other avenue for me as well. It may not be Pagan, but it was an incredible thing for me to find out. In the past few days I have learned much about the different tribes of Cherokee, and their cultures. However, I doubt I will be able to learn much about their spirituality and religious work. These are both held very dear and kept secret from the average person. Strega Mama, and I are both hoping that this genealogy chart I have will be enough for tribal membership. Who knows where it might go from there. What you'll be looking for is a name - an ancestor whose name appears on the Dawes Rolls. Some tribes also require a minimum blood quantum: a quarter, usually, but some are lower. Most of the time you will also require supporting documentation (birth certificates, death certificates, newspaper clippings, the like) that are official proof of your descent. I have a stack of papers for my own for the Metís nation about 3 inches thick - and I'm not trying to prove that I'm a quarter of anything. One of the reasons it's hard for people to enroll sometimes is finding the supporting documents. In some cases they just aren't there anymore. But...as you said, even if you do qualify and are enlisted on a tribal roll, it doesn't mean they'll teach you - especially if you're not living as a part of their culture. You'll still have to find an elder willing to educate you. It can be a hard road - and one that's absolutely littered with fakes, frauds, and exploiters willing and eager to mislead those who find they can't reach their destination proper. In the end I sort of have to echo San. Ancestry is nice, but sometimes it doesn't mean a goddamn when it comes to spiritual practice. In the end - we're all related, somehow. It becomes meaningless - for example, at a certain point everybody from Western Europe is related to Charlemagne. Not because they are, really, but because that's the flaw in the genealogical method.
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Distinct Conversationalist
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Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:51 am
Morgandria Marine-Kitty After this discussion was had I found out through the use of the internet that my Great Great Great Grandmother was Cherokee. So this opens up a whole other avenue for me as well. It may not be Pagan, but it was an incredible thing for me to find out. In the past few days I have learned much about the different tribes of Cherokee, and their cultures. However, I doubt I will be able to learn much about their spirituality and religious work. These are both held very dear and kept secret from the average person. Strega Mama, and I are both hoping that this genealogy chart I have will be enough for tribal membership. Who knows where it might go from there. What you'll be looking for is a name - an ancestor whose name appears on the Dawes Rolls. Some tribes also require a minimum blood quantum: a quarter, usually, but some are lower. Most of the time you will also require supporting documentation (birth certificates, death certificates, newspaper clippings, the like) that are official proof of your descent. I have a stack of papers for my own for the Metís nation about 3 inches thick - and I'm not trying to prove that I'm a quarter of anything. One of the reasons it's hard for people to enroll sometimes is finding the supporting documents. In some cases they just aren't there anymore. But...as you said, even if you do qualify and are enlisted on a tribal roll, it doesn't mean they'll teach you - especially if you're not living as a part of their culture. You'll still have to find an elder willing to educate you. It can be a hard road - and one that's absolutely littered with fakes, frauds, and exploiters willing and eager to mislead those who find they can't reach their destination proper. In the end I sort of have to echo San. Ancestry is nice, but sometimes it doesn't mean a goddamn when it comes to spiritual practice. In the end - we're all related, somehow. It becomes meaningless - for example, at a certain point everybody from Western Europe is related to Charlemagne. Not because they are, really, but because that's the flaw in the genealogical method. Beautifully said, Morgandria. Unless you're actually living as a tribe member, a lot of Native Americans will see your practice as cultural appropriation.
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