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Reply 1. Martial Arts Discussions and Questions
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Master Fearhoral
Crew

PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2011 6:38 am


wile working security at an event there was a 6th degree martial artist who was preforming a demo there he said he was a student of george dillman(the no touch knockout master) and decided to use me in his demonstration since i seemed to be a well suited partner. he did a few grapple techniques and those were fun then he wanted to do the no touch knockout. he delivered the movement and there was nothing and i felt nothing except a slight warm feeling in my stomach from excitement. he then tells me i need to relax and then preforms the technique again once again nothing. he then looked to me asked me a few questions
1: am i relaxed: i answered yes
2: are you resisting to be knocked out: i said no i was expecting to be knocked out.
3:are you a martial artist?: i told him yes
he then says "well martial artist are generally immune to this technique and only works on about @ of martial artists. then looks to the crowd and says "you have a true warrior amongst you"

now im not going to prance around saying im this ohh grand chosen one who can survive a suposive hidden deadly martial arts technique
the questions i ask you all is

- why would anyone use a move that has such a high chance to fail
-why are martial artists or anyone of an athletic background more immune to a deadly art?
-is this genuine Bullshido of a mcdojo chain?
vids i found after this experience.
one showing it as a failed attempt
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JM_qg5d1YGI
this one a success
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ki5A4Q3hVuU&feature=related

tell me what you think!
PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2011 7:35 am


Master Fearhoral
wile working security at an event there was a 6th degree martial artist who was preforming a demo there he said he was a student of george dillman(the no touch knockout master) and decided to use me in his demonstration since i seemed to be a well suited partner. he did a few grapple techniques and those were fun then he wanted to do the no touch knockout. he delivered the movement and there was nothing and i felt nothing except a slight warm feeling in my stomach from excitement. he then tells me i need to relax and then preforms the technique again once again nothing. he then looked to me asked me a few questions
1: am i relaxed: i answered yes
2: are you resisting to be knocked out: i said no i was expecting to be knocked out.
3:are you a martial artist?: i told him yes
he then says "well martial artist are generally immune to this technique and only works on about @ of martial artists. then looks to the crowd and says "you have a true warrior amongst you"

now im not going to prance around saying im this ohh grand chosen one who can survive a suposive hidden deadly martial arts technique
the questions i ask you all is

- why would anyone use a move that has such a high chance to fail
-why are martial artists or anyone of an athletic background more immune to a deadly art?
-is this genuine Bullshido of a mcdojo chain?
vids i found after this experience.
one showing it as a failed attempt
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JM_qg5d1YGI
this one a success
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ki5A4Q3hVuU&feature=related

tell me what you think!

This is a touchy topic. The concept is known (in Chinese terminology) as kong jin. I'm not familiar with the exact translation of the term but it means something to the effect of "transmission of internal energy over distance." It's very controversial in the traditional martial arts world, and beyond that world it's considered impossible due to an utter lack of reputable scientific evidence. Let's look at the questions.

-Why would anyone use a move that has such a high chance to fail?

I believe in the possibility of kong jin as an actual phenomenon. With adequate focus and careful technique one can project their qi. I was taught by putting out a candle with a simple finger movement. I could manage almost a foot away under perfect conditions. My sifu could do almost two feet. That's it. And would you feel it if him or I tried to do it to you? Hell no. If there is force there, it's so light that its imperceptible to the human nervous system. So the simple answer is that you wouldn't use kong jin in an actual combat situation. Kong jin is more of a teaching tool designed to help a person learn to move their qi and focus its projection for healing and understanding, not combat. George Dillman and his adherents might be on to something but probably not.

-Why are martial artists or anyone of an athletic background more immune to a deadly art?

This is a theoretical answer that assumes Dillman's technique actually is valid. Presuming that the technique actually utilizes the attackers qi in a fashion capable of disrupting the other person's body, we can assume a direct physiological interaction of some sort. A martial artist or an athlete is by default more aware of the state of their body as opposed to the average Joe Sixpack. Therefore, it is logical to assume that they would counteract the qi technique, either consciously or subconsciously and be rendered immune to it.

-Is this genuine Bullshido of a McDojo chain?

Anyone who claims that they can use "kong jin" or "dim mak" or "death touch" or the bloody "hadoken" is full of it. In a legitimate martial usage, qi can be used at best to disrupt an opponent's meridians and flows and that requires contact as well as careful and detailed study of human anatomy. I believe in that usage because I've been on the wrong end of it before. But there isn't a human alive (anymore) that can project their qi strongly enough to use it as an immediate combat weapon. There are internal artists who can project sufficiently to cause long term disruption (bagua masters are notorious for it, in fact) but as for throwing a long-range knockout punch... well, it doesn't happen. Dillman is a well-known charlatan who is better at brainwashing others than the martial arts. For purposes of this discussion, what you experienced is 100% Grade-A Fresh-From-The-McDojo Bullshido.

quiet_way
Vice Captain


Master Fearhoral
Crew

PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2011 8:14 am


indeed it is a touchy subject and not intended to talk down on those who believe in an energy and spiritual power.
in some terms i would call my own spirit my ki flow others can view it as something else like "he is just catching his breath"
or when i hurt myself ille close my eyes and meditate and numb my pain skeptics would say im just tricking my body into thinking im not that hurt and maby thats true but im doing it with the belief im using my energy to do it.
jungse illdo -mind body in one direction anything is possible.

-also in note i have noticed in some of dillmans demonstrations he intensionally hurts his students or even the demo dummy.
some would say he is doing it to strike fear and belief into his style wile others say he does it so you know what the technique will do.
PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2011 10:23 am


quiet_way
Master Fearhoral
wile working security at an event there was a 6th degree martial artist who was preforming a demo there he said he was a student of george dillman(the no touch knockout master) and decided to use me in his demonstration since i seemed to be a well suited partner. he did a few grapple techniques and those were fun then he wanted to do the no touch knockout. he delivered the movement and there was nothing and i felt nothing except a slight warm feeling in my stomach from excitement. he then tells me i need to relax and then preforms the technique again once again nothing. he then looked to me asked me a few questions
1: am i relaxed: i answered yes
2: are you resisting to be knocked out: i said no i was expecting to be knocked out.
3:are you a martial artist?: i told him yes
he then says "well martial artist are generally immune to this technique and only works on about @ of martial artists. then looks to the crowd and says "you have a true warrior amongst you"

now im not going to prance around saying im this ohh grand chosen one who can survive a suposive hidden deadly martial arts technique
the questions i ask you all is

- why would anyone use a move that has such a high chance to fail
-why are martial artists or anyone of an athletic background more immune to a deadly art?
-is this genuine Bullshido of a mcdojo chain?
vids i found after this experience.
one showing it as a failed attempt
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JM_qg5d1YGI
this one a success
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ki5A4Q3hVuU&feature=related

tell me what you think!

This is a touchy topic. The concept is known (in Chinese terminology) as kong jin. I'm not familiar with the exact translation of the term but it means something to the effect of "transmission of internal energy over distance." It's very controversial in the traditional martial arts world, and beyond that world it's considered impossible due to an utter lack of reputable scientific evidence. Let's look at the questions.

-Why would anyone use a move that has such a high chance to fail?

I believe in the possibility of kong jin as an actual phenomenon. With adequate focus and careful technique one can project their qi. I was taught by putting out a candle with a simple finger movement. I could manage almost a foot away under perfect conditions. My sifu could do almost two feet. That's it. And would you feel it if him or I tried to do it to you? Hell no. If there is force there, it's so light that its imperceptible to the human nervous system. So the simple answer is that you wouldn't use kong jin in an actual combat situation. Kong jin is more of a teaching tool designed to help a person learn to move their qi and focus its projection for healing and understanding, not combat. George Dillman and his adherents might be on to something but probably not.

-Why are martial artists or anyone of an athletic background more immune to a deadly art?

This is a theoretical answer that assumes Dillman's technique actually is valid. Presuming that the technique actually utilizes the attackers qi in a fashion capable of disrupting the other person's body, we can assume a direct physiological interaction of some sort. A martial artist or an athlete is by default more aware of the state of their body as opposed to the average Joe Sixpack. Therefore, it is logical to assume that they would counteract the qi technique, either consciously or subconsciously and be rendered immune to it.

-Is this genuine Bullshido of a McDojo chain?

Anyone who claims that they can use "kong jin" or "dim mak" or "death touch" or the bloody "hadoken" is full of it. In a legitimate martial usage, qi can be used at best to disrupt an opponent's meridians and flows and that requires contact as well as careful and detailed study of human anatomy. I believe in that usage because I've been on the wrong end of it before. But there isn't a human alive (anymore) that can project their qi strongly enough to use it as an immediate combat weapon. There are internal artists who can project sufficiently to cause long term disruption (bagua masters are notorious for it, in fact) but as for throwing a long-range knockout punch... well, it doesn't happen. Dillman is a well-known charlatan who is better at brainwashing others than the martial arts. For purposes of this discussion, what you experienced is 100% Grade-A Fresh-From-The-McDojo Bullshido.


I read an article in Black Belt once about the "no-touch KO" ... for quiet, it means "empty force" in Chinese. In Japanese it is called toate-jitsu (translated to fighting method of striking from a distance). Dillman was featured ...

Now as for the subject itself ... I personally don't believe it ... but being skeptical to this is kind of understandable ...

But then again I watched this and well yeah ...
Kiai Master vs MMA

baka_boy1221
Captain


Master Fearhoral
Crew

PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2011 12:09 pm


baka_boy1221
quiet_way
Master Fearhoral
wile working security at an event there was a 6th degree martial artist who was preforming a demo there he said he was a student of george dillman(the no touch knockout master) and decided to use me in his demonstration since i seemed to be a well suited partner. he did a few grapple techniques and those were fun then he wanted to do the no touch knockout. he delivered the movement and there was nothing and i felt nothing except a slight warm feeling in my stomach from excitement. he then tells me i need to relax and then preforms the technique again once again nothing. he then looked to me asked me a few questions
1: am i relaxed: i answered yes
2: are you resisting to be knocked out: i said no i was expecting to be knocked out.
3:are you a martial artist?: i told him yes
he then says "well martial artist are generally immune to this technique and only works on about @ of martial artists. then looks to the crowd and says "you have a true warrior amongst you"

now im not going to prance around saying im this ohh grand chosen one who can survive a suposive hidden deadly martial arts technique
the questions i ask you all is

- why would anyone use a move that has such a high chance to fail
-why are martial artists or anyone of an athletic background more immune to a deadly art?
-is this genuine Bullshido of a mcdojo chain?
vids i found after this experience.
one showing it as a failed attempt
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JM_qg5d1YGI
this one a success
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ki5A4Q3hVuU&feature=related

tell me what you think!

This is a touchy topic. The concept is known (in Chinese terminology) as kong jin. I'm not familiar with the exact translation of the term but it means something to the effect of "transmission of internal energy over distance." It's very controversial in the traditional martial arts world, and beyond that world it's considered impossible due to an utter lack of reputable scientific evidence. Let's look at the questions.

-Why would anyone use a move that has such a high chance to fail?

I believe in the possibility of kong jin as an actual phenomenon. With adequate focus and careful technique one can project their qi. I was taught by putting out a candle with a simple finger movement. I could manage almost a foot away under perfect conditions. My sifu could do almost two feet. That's it. And would you feel it if him or I tried to do it to you? Hell no. If there is force there, it's so light that its imperceptible to the human nervous system. So the simple answer is that you wouldn't use kong jin in an actual combat situation. Kong jin is more of a teaching tool designed to help a person learn to move their qi and focus its projection for healing and understanding, not combat. George Dillman and his adherents might be on to something but probably not.

-Why are martial artists or anyone of an athletic background more immune to a deadly art?

This is a theoretical answer that assumes Dillman's technique actually is valid. Presuming that the technique actually utilizes the attackers qi in a fashion capable of disrupting the other person's body, we can assume a direct physiological interaction of some sort. A martial artist or an athlete is by default more aware of the state of their body as opposed to the average Joe Sixpack. Therefore, it is logical to assume that they would counteract the qi technique, either consciously or subconsciously and be rendered immune to it.

-Is this genuine Bullshido of a McDojo chain?

Anyone who claims that they can use "kong jin" or "dim mak" or "death touch" or the bloody "hadoken" is full of it. In a legitimate martial usage, qi can be used at best to disrupt an opponent's meridians and flows and that requires contact as well as careful and detailed study of human anatomy. I believe in that usage because I've been on the wrong end of it before. But there isn't a human alive (anymore) that can project their qi strongly enough to use it as an immediate combat weapon. There are internal artists who can project sufficiently to cause long term disruption (bagua masters are notorious for it, in fact) but as for throwing a long-range knockout punch... well, it doesn't happen. Dillman is a well-known charlatan who is better at brainwashing others than the martial arts. For purposes of this discussion, what you experienced is 100% Grade-A Fresh-From-The-McDojo Bullshido.


I read an article in Black Belt once about the "no-touch KO" ... for quiet, it means "empty force" in Chinese. In Japanese it is called toate-jitsu (translated to fighting method of striking from a distance). Dillman was featured ...

Now as for the subject itself ... I personally don't believe it ... but being skeptical to this is kind of understandable ...

But then again I watched this and well yeah ...
Kiai Master vs MMA


ive seen that one and it realy brings into question is this just a form of hypnotism. i mean the mind is capable of alot of things.
you get a group of people in one room who believe in something the mind begins thinking its true so when a certain trigger or movement is done the mind causes the body to react.
as dillman said "non believers arent effected by the no touch knock out" (many of the excuses him and his instructors have said)
PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2011 2:54 pm


Non believers. Aren't affected. By the no touch knockout.

I'm not sure if I should break out laughing or crying. I wonder how these charlatans convince new people that their technique is real then, since you cannot truly believe in something you haven't experienced. A following of the easily-duped, apparently who have a disturbing propensity for suckering others in.

I'm not surprised to see an MMA fighter do what that one did. Most of the MMA people I've met are surprisingly well-versed in the actual properties of qi and its abilities. Either the gentleman fighter in that video did not believe (still not sure what emotion to feel about that) or knew precisely what qi could and could not do. I do pity the "kiai master" however. Clearly he actually believed that his technique worked and had the desired effect on others. Brutal way to have it disproved for him.

quiet_way
Vice Captain


Master Fearhoral
Crew

PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 3:59 pm


what crossed my mind after i saw that clip was.

1:man that MMA fighter handed it to that master.

2: how did his students feel about his abilities after that moment in time

3:im curious if the students ever questioned this masters oh so powerful history of a 200 win streak in limited rule underground tournaments. and this $10,000 challenge reward.

some rumors i heard was that shortly after this event the master retired and was not heard from again. any of his loyal followers claim he went to train in his temple wile others think he moved away or committed suicide from not being able to handel the stress from his defeat.
one way or the other i think the man was a coward.

in other terms i always wondered why older masters dont compete anymore. i mean it sounds like a childish thought and i got a few explanations some may be more agreed than others
and these come from different views.
1: many of the older masters wont do tournaments because of fear or possibilities of losing students and the fear that the student may question the abilties of his masters teachings. (as happened with the kiai master)

2: the master feels that he should not have to compete in tournaments to prove himself to his students but the students have faith in their masters teachings and compete with his teachings and become better and even develop the teachings around his own strengths or methods.
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 5:11 pm


Master Fearhoral
2: the master feels that he should not have to compete in tournaments to prove himself to his students but the students have faith in their masters teachings and compete with his teachings and become better and even develop the teachings around his own strengths or methods.

As one progresses in the martial arts to the advanced level termed "master", a person feels less and less the need to exert his dominance over others. The desire to show off and push others martially simply is no longer necessary and thus they do not bother. The purity of the art becomes such that they see no need for that. Basically, at a certain level of enlightenment a "master" of any style should no longer see a reason to compete. The Martial Art becomes purely a method of defense and self-discovery and demonstration serves only as a distraction to this. A good student realizes this and has no need of histrionics on the part of his teacher, accepting the teaching as it is rather than as an outlandish display.

This system works because while the older masters grow enlightened and move beyond the more basic needs of the art, younger masters are still demonstrating and showing the public the art. Thus, new students are attracted while the old ones can pursue the purity of the arts.

quiet_way
Vice Captain


myhorrorshow

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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 4:27 am


To me this doo doo martial arts, it's like psyche calling out sprite..you never going to hear in history books someone was killed without scratch on them..
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:03 pm


So guys share any Experiences you had.

have you ever encountered or taken place in a mcdojo.

what were some things you noticed about them compared to your current discipline?
-forms
-training methods.
-the self defense
-price difference if any at all.
-all out discipline of the style or class

(note this can also fall under a gym or even an MMA training ground)

Master Fearhoral
Crew


Master Fearhoral
Crew

PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:24 pm


this is a funny thing that happened to me wile i was living in texas.
my uncle got me into this gym called The Old Texas Barbell Company ran by a man named Mike Granham. a retired body builder and golden glove boxer. he had alot of crazy and fun exercises some even going into old school like using a sledge hammer and hitting a tractor tire. well wile i was there working out a new guy comes in and begins working out. within the first 24 minutes he starts complaining about it being to hot in the gym. (mikes gym has no AC) mike sat behind his desk smiling over at him. after about 30 min the guy continued to complain about the heat and went over to mike he then says to him "hey mike do you happen to have any showers here i need to cool off" mike then reached under his desk and pulled out a hose and sprayed then guy on full blast. the man began yelling at mike and mike just looked at him and said "if you dont like it then go back to 24 hour fitness where you can lift weights and have a man in short shorts bring you a towl and be pampered like a Hollywood snob"
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 10:54 am


Master Fearhoral
this is a funny thing that happened to me wile i was living in texas.
my uncle got me into this gym called The Old Texas Barbell Company ran by a man named Mike Granham. a retired body builder and golden glove boxer. he had alot of crazy and fun exercises some even going into old school like using a sledge hammer and hitting a tractor tire. well wile i was there working out a new guy comes in and begins working out. within the first 24 minutes he starts complaining about it being to hot in the gym. (mikes gym has no AC) mike sat behind his desk smiling over at him. after about 30 min the guy continued to complain about the heat and went over to mike he then says to him "hey mike do you happen to have any showers here i need to cool off" mike then reached under his desk and pulled out a hose and sprayed then guy on full blast. the man began yelling at mike and mike just looked at him and said "if you dont like it then go back to 24 hour fitness where you can lift weights and have a man in short shorts bring you a towl and be pampered like a Hollywood snob"


Now that's my type of gym ... the smell of sweat in the air ... humid ... no bullshit ... those are the types of gyms where really "hungry" athletes go to improve ... where guys make their start ... and they credit them when they make the big times ... gotta love those no bullshit gyms ...

baka_boy1221
Captain


baka_boy1221
Captain

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 6:49 pm


Has anyone else noticed that TKD studio ... or that Kung Fu Academy ... or that Karate Dojo ... that starts advertising MMA ... and then after all the paperwork is done ... they just teach you TKD or Kung Fu or Karate ... but nothing even resembling MMA ...
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:01 am


baka_boy1221
Has anyone else noticed that TKD studio ... or that Kung Fu Academy ... or that Karate Dojo ... that starts advertising MMA ... and then after all the paperwork is done ... they just teach you TKD or Kung Fu or Karate ... but nothing even resembling MMA ...


i noticed a few schools like that and even a few places that call themselves an MMA facility but turns out to be just a gym.

Master Fearhoral
Crew


Master Fearhoral
Crew

PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 3:58 pm


baka makes a good point on the topic of Martial arts schools advertising MMA as part of their schools teachings. i have noticed alot of schools been doing it and i think maby its to lure in customers who are involved in this growing MMA trend. the general population of people in the united states and perhaps the world are more attracted to a MMA titled school/gym over a traditional martial art as sad as it is to admit. and as for young crowds who have no basic knowledge of styles will be more attracted to it because its what they see done on UFC and other MMA TV shows.

this is not to talk down on anyone who trains in a MMA system. i got alot of respect for it and i even been mixing in techniques from boxing and BJJ into my base Karate style.)

history has a funny way of repeating itself. when people started bringing martial arts from the east to the west every kid wanted to be a ninja/martial arts master/assasin/. and now today you ask a young kid who gets interested in MMA he will say "i wanna be a UFC Fighter!"

but for people to advertise MMA into their system and not teach a single bit of it. that can almost fall into a Mcdojo category.
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1. Martial Arts Discussions and Questions

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