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| Are You An Eclectic Witch or a Wiccan? |
| Wiccan |
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36% |
[ 4 ] |
| Witch |
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54% |
[ 6 ] |
| Neither/Other |
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9% |
[ 1 ] |
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| Total Votes : 11 |
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 Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 5:34 pm
What makes a Wiccan versus a Witch?
There is always debate over this topic but I feel that it is very much important that this topic be addressed before any more harm is done.
I am well aware that traditional Gardnerian practices state that one may not call themselves a wiccan unless initiated into a coven. That Wicca is more System than Religion.
HOWEVER
there are many other traditions of Wicca that state otherwise.
The Following, is what I was taught and it is filled with my personal thoughts and opinions on everything I have been taught or otherwise learned about this subject. If you do not agree with what I am saying, or are unable to consider that these words may hold some form of truth to them, then I ask that you please not reply as I am posting this in hopes of some honest, non-accusatory, positive learning discussion.
I do not post this to Harm others or to attack those who do not see as I see. I know that everyone on this earth sees the same thing in very different ways and I do not believe in a single "Universal Truth". My personal belief is that truth is composed of many small "Personal Truths" which are Mysteries, viewpoints, thoughts, philosophies, and other such aspects of life that "sing to your heart and soul" or just "feel right" to your inner guide.
Thank you.
I come from a family of Wiccans, but I was never initiated into a coven or particular tradition by anyone other than myself and the divine spirits. Despite this, I consider myself Wiccan, and many others are in the same position as I am.
My Personal Reason to To call myself Wiccan is:
It's what is right in my heart, it's what sings true to my soul, to my very being.
Bestowed upon me is not just the title of "witch", or the practice of "witchcraft" but blessings as I entered my life as a Wiccan. I am not just a Witch, I adhere to the RELIGION that is Wicca. I may not adhere to the same tradition as you, but I do follow Wiccan beliefs.
I have been taught that "Witch" is a title and nothing more than a practice, a system. Witchraft is a System.
My Great Grandmother taught me that: Wicca is a state of being, a belief, an inner truth, and a Religion. Anyone who feels Wicca in their hearts and souls as being pure and true is wiccan.
Wicca teaches to accept, not deny. To heal, not harm. To listen and understand before you speak and ask to be understood.
I do not understand fully why many coven Wiccans refuse to accept Solitary and Family traditions. I have also heard that Celtic traditions can not exist. This I understand even less than the rest of it.
I believe that:
It is perfectly possible and common for solitary Wiccans to exist. You do not have to be initiated by an elder or High priestess/ High priest based on the traditions I was raised with. As long as the Earth mother and Sky Father give their blessings to you, and you can feel their presence, then you are initiated by the love of our divine creators.
I seem to be conflicted here as everything I have learned about Wicca thus far is completely "Wrong" to the views of some Wiccans. I have been told that those initiated into Wicca are oath-bound and may not release their knowledge of the religion to anyone who is not a seeker. This makes no sense to me as Gerald Gardener himself published many books on Wicca, thus revealing that information to many people who were not official seekers. Moreover, if we are oath-bound, then does that mean that everything that is read both on the internet, and in books are breakages of this oath?
Silver RavenWolf has published many books on Wicca and Witchcraft and it was her books that taught me to believe that I am Wiccan.
"Silver heads the Black Forrest Clan, a Wiccan Organization that consists of 53 covens in 29 states and 3 international groups." [sited: inner cover of "To Light A Sacred Flame", 2005, Llewellyn Publications]
If she is the head of a clan is she not supposed to be bound by this oath as well? Are her works untrue? Is She herself not actually a Wiccan because she's published so many books to teach Ritual format and encourages solitary practice of Wicca?
How about Eileen Holland?
"Eileen Holland is a solitary Eclectic Witch, a Wiccan Priestess, and a Poet. She calls her path Goddess Wicca." [sited back page of "The Wicca Handbook", Published in 2000 by Samuel Weiser Inc.]
Is Eileen not actually a Wiccan? has she lied to her readers and seekers as well?
I am not meaning to accuse anyone of anything. I'm just confused is all. it seems that everything I have been taught or have likewise learned is viewed as untrue to many Wiccans and I just want to know That I am not the only person who believes as I believe and who has been taught as I have been taught. I would like to know that there is some form of personal truth that I share with others out there, and if not, then at least to learn what your truth is in a way that doesn't leave myself, and others feeling as though We've been attacked.
If you have a particular Tradition of Wicca that you follow, please, I ask you to post some info about that system so I may learn and understand more about everyone's viewpoints. If you do not see certain traditions as being Wiccan, I please ask you to not state such in a brash manner here. We are all entitled to our oppinions, but this is not supposed to be about telling people what they can and can not believe in, it's about understanding what those around us believe.
Thank you and Blessed Be,
Xandine.
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Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:19 pm
wicca and witchcraft is the same thing.
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Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:46 pm
`Though thy crest be shorn and shaven, thou,' I said, `art sure no craven.
Ghastly grim and ancient raven wandering from the nightly shore - -cracks knuckles-
To start with: Wicca and witchcraft are NOT the same thing. They're actually two totally separate things. Witchcraft is a craft or rather practice that can either be apart of a religion or no religion. Wicca is a religion that was established in 1954 by Gerald Gardner due to the repel of the Anti-Witchcraft Laws in Britain.
There are traditions that DO follow the Gardenian standard: Alexandrian, Moshcian, Central Valley, Greencraft, Daoine Core, Majestic.
Also Silver Ravenwolf was never a Wiccan. She's a fraud. Scott Cunnigham is at least more legit than her >.. Tell me what thy lordly name is on the Night's Plutonian shore!'
Quoth the raven, `Nevermore.'
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Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:19 pm
Actually, Gerald B. Gardner did not create Wicca. He himself was initiated into a coven and was brought into the religion. He was merely the first Wiccan to ever publish information on Wicca. A large feat, for sure, but he is not actually the founder of the Religion. The true founder is unknown. He Himself States that in his writing.
And you're right, Witchcraft and Wicca are not one in the same. One is a system, while the other is a religion.
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Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:06 pm
Oh dear gosh!
--
Okay, lets get the petty stuff that irks me out of the way first:
1.) Wicca and witchcraft are not the same thing. Wicca is a religion (more details to follow) while witchcraft is just that: a craft.
Witchcraft can be practiced by anyone regardless of religious belief. It is a craft no different from music, or carpentry, or dance, or metallurgy, or leather-work, or painting... I could go on, but you get the idea. Anyone can be a witch whether they are pagan, atheist, Christina, Jewish, secular -whatever.
Wicca, on the other hand, is a religion unto itself. It is a "witchcult" and witchcraft figures VERY heavily in the practice of their religion. All Wiccans are witches, however, not all witches are Wiccan.
--
2.) As has been explained in the above section of this post: not all witches are Wiccan. Therefore, I must ask: "Why is there no 'none of the above' option in your poll?"
--
3.) Many of the "traditions of Wicca" you have listed on you poll are not Wiccan at all.
--
And now, for the heavy stuff...
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Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:08 pm
What Wicca Really Is
(These are the words of an initiated High Priestess with a verified lineage.)
PART 1
Most people who say they are Wiccan are not. This is not a bad thing. It does not mean that their beliefs are wrong per se. You believe what you believe, and your spiritual and religious practices are not my concern outside of one condition. Incorrectly naming them Wicca.
Most who name their practice Wicca are most likely a form of eclectic neopagan Witchcraft. It's the most common form of neopagan Witchcraft there is mostly becuase it has no defined requirements, liturgy, rules or restrictions. It permits and even encourages solitary practice, the development of personal values and spirituality from what works for the person. These things on principle are fine. They just sould not be called Wicca.
So what IS Wicca?
So what makes Wicca Wicca as opposed to Neopagan Witchcraft of another tradition or flavour?
In order to understand that, first we need a brief look at the real history. One of the best sources for this is Professor Ronald Hutton, the worlds leading expert in the history of pagan and neopagan practices of Britain. Of course the work of Gardner is also essential readng here too.
There are many beliefs concerning the origins of Wicca most of which are wrong. The provable facts are not hard to find and understand so long as you are willing to ignore self serving repition and objectively look at things. I believe this to be one reason why the greatest scholar on the subject is not even Pagan, let alone Wiccan. Objectivity is important here.
It is important in understanding what Wicca is to understand both the histoy of the use of the term and also how it was constructed, what it's constituent defining factors are and what it can therefore be identified by, essentially what it's hallmarks are.
A Brief History of the Term Wicca:
Gerald Gardner was the first person to write about an active modern European based Witchcult. He named the members 'the Wica'.
The Word Wicca/Wicce and as Gardner spelled it in his public works, Wica, did not exist in the modern English language until he wrote about it outside of one exception, his contemporary and a great source of information, Robert Graves who briefly mentioned 'Wicca' within his work, a work of fiction, 'The White Goddess'. Even with that one exception, it never before, not even in other languages such as Middle English and the earliest published record of the word in the Laws of Aelfred and Ine c. 893 AD, was used to denote or describe a religion of any description. In etymolgy, the original context of the word was a derrogatory one that was pronounced in such a way as sounded much like the modern word Witch. However, it did refer to those who used herblore and chants. Neither of these things denote a religion and it is most likely Aelfred was referring to people who practiced skills unrelated to any religion and who were in fact Christians.
Not only was Gardner the first to use the word in any way relevant to a religious practice, but he also is known to have actually constructed the religion.
A commonly popular persuit in Victorian times, was the study of the Occult. There were the developing 'Western Mystery Traditions'. The developing of the study of historical culture and development known as anthropology was beginning to blossom also. With these sources informing him, and believing the older pagan ways of the Witch to be largely lost, Gardner set about 'filling in the blanks'. As such Gardner and his then High Priestess Doreen Valiente and others, took the surviving beliefs and practices, and fleshed them out under Geralds guidance and instruction, with material from other religious, spiritual and ceremonial magick sources. Gardner thusly in terms of concluding formal logic and on the basis of scholarly works such as those of Hutton, created Wicca.
A common argument by some who wholely accept the history as regards Gardner being the first to form a Europen Witchcult that he called 'Wica', is that he only created 'Wica' and not 'Wicca', and so we have the arguments of one versus two 'C's' as an argument to discredit Gardners affilitation to what is now termed 'Wicca'. As regards the two variant spellings, ‘Wica’ and ‘Wicca’, the validity of their reference to Gardners Witchcult, numerous arguments are often made.
One such argument is that due to Gardners insistence on the one ‘c’ spelling, he clearly only intended that spelling, and that his demonstrated knowledge of the etymology of ‘Wicca’ can only conclude that they were to him, two different words. One commentator studied in linguistics, logic, Old English and Saxon and well versed in these arguments (and a devout Christian for what it's worth) had the following to say on a semi-public forum:
“So, Gardner claims a group (of witches? It's not that clear) named themselves the Wica sometime before the fall of the Roman Empire on page 96.[.sic. Witchcraft Today] Within a few paragraphs of claiming that the word wicca came from concatenating wig and laer. Within a few paragraphs of screwing up translations of other words (wow, unlybban wyrce being 'unlawful magic'...).
Wica with a single c is nothing like wicca. It would be pronounced weeka, closer to how people pronounce Wicca today (as opposed to 'witchah' which is how wicca would've been pronounced), and the only known related words to it would be wic - a week - or Wic - a dwelling - neither of which bear any meaning to witchcraft. I suppose maybe Wica might indicate they were the 'dwellers', trying to establish themselves as the rightful inhabitants of England and putting the Danes and the Romans down as aliens, [...] It seems highly unlikely that Wica is the correct spelling of wicca, or indeed anything other than a group name. “
From this linguistic analysis of the one ‘c’ two ‘c’ issue, we can deduct that Gardner having been issued with verbal instruction on the matter understood the difference to be denoting that of pronunciation. Gardner did use a single 'c' spelling in his published material, other non published material from within the cult dating from the time of Gardner and since, have however used the two 'c' spelling. Charles Clark, a member of Gardners coven, publically defended Gardners use of the one 'c' spelling against the two, but to paraphrase, he only explained it as that Gardner was insistent at the one ‘c’ spelling. It is evident from his books that Gardner was quite aware of the pronunciation of the etymological spelling of ‘Wicca’ being closer to ‘Witchah’ in pronunciation and having a bearing on witchcraft in early Britain and therefore in order to denote the proper pronunciation, used the one ‘c’ spelling. However, through his attempts at explaining the etymology of the word it can be asserted that he considered them to hold the same meaning in origin. We can then assert with confidence that the modern spoken pronunciation of ‘Wicca’ is in fact spelled as Gardner spelled it and that while we write ‘Wicca’ in speech we say ‘Wica’. It is not therefore a matter of two separate words referring to two separate ideas or traditions, but one word meaning one tradition commonly spelled incorrectly to how it is pronounced.
Another common argument on the one versus two ‘c’ issue is that of Charles Cardell, which on closer inspection, also does not hold water.
Gerald Gardner and Charles Cardell were at one time friends, and both involved in magic. However, Cardell, like many since, wanted more than he was given or could be give and there was a falling out. Cardell then set up his own group along with his so called sister (they were no relation but they announced they were siblings) With his new group, Cardell began to muddy the waters. Not only through the setting up of his own witchcult and claiming, to paraphrase in hyperbole, "it's the same but it's different cause I spell it different so there!" but also using the media to mudsling and take cheap shots at other Witches of the time. However, it is quite clear from even cursory inspections of the material used by Cardell that he was essentially making use of what he liked of Gardners work and blending it with his own concepts of folk-magic etc. Secondly to the background, Cardell did not spell his cult Wicca, but Wiccea, just as different as Wica is from Wicca.
Then there is the chronology argument flowing from the 'Gardner used one 'C'' debate, that of chronology. This argument suggests that the two 'c' spelling was in common use by the early 1970's and occasionally in the late 1960's to denote non initiatory witchcraft traditions. This argument is a fallicious one to begin with, as it relies on an argument to antiquity which denies the other factors. However, it's almost impossible but just almost, for me to show a public date apart from letters between Buckland and the author St.Claire in 1964 regarding the publication of her fiction novel 'Sign Of The Labrys' a year earlier in 1963, in their correspondence they were clearly using the two 'c' spelling specifically regarding Gardners Witchcult. This also predates Bucklands schism from Gardnerian craft tradition. This is the earliest known publicly accessible use of the two c spelling outside of etymology. There are however non publically accessible proofs of the chronology of the two c spelling in use in oathbound lore, but obviously that cannot be used in debate or indeed as proofs. This instance is in fact, the first published instance of the two 'c' spelling and came before the plethora of neopagan published works in the 60's and 70's and through to recent times. The first appearances of the two ‘c’ spelling not in reference to Gardners cult to my understanding, do not appear until 1969 (and penned in 1968 ).
The claims made by Gardner with relation to previous witchcults have been debunked as unprovable and unlikely, yet not impossible. Personally I do not believe there was any cohesive definable tradition in existence for any great length of time before Gardner and we can display the elements of Wicca that Gardner and Valiente generated by their own volition. These traceable elements are often considered some of the most notable ‘aspects’ and defining factors of outercourt Wicca. That is to say, the materials distributed through the Pagan way and such sources which encourage basic ritual constructions that have been adopted through many neopagan traditions and paths today.
It is therefore a fact recognized by indipendent academics that Gardner did in fact create Wicca. Regardless of what anyone else may say, in the context explained above, this is the factual truth of the matter.
The Creation of Wicca and How Wicca Was Put Together:
So then, if Gardner created Wicca, we should look at how he did so. There are certain things he put in place that mean only certain practices and people can actually be Wiccan.
He wrote it as being an initiatory, oathbound, orthopraxic, experiential mystery tradition of priesthood. In order to gain membership, and to learn these rites and the religion itself, one had to be initiated.
As part of that initiation, an oath is taken. This oath requires that the person swearing it do a number of things.
These things include but are not limited to: preserving the tradition as was taught to you. Practicing the tradition as was taught to you. Keeping certain things secret. Defending and protecting the tradition and the people therin. Passing on the tradition to certain people in a certain way.
Now. If someone breaks away and sufficiently changes the core rites and rituals, they then cease to be practicing Wicca and logically, should they teach anyone this new creation that student will not be Wiccan. Therefore, it can logically be said that those who have not been properly initiated and trained within a proper Wiccan coven holding proper lineage are not Wiccan.
Because to be Wiccan is to be a follower of the religion of Gardner as he set it out.
Change it and it's no longer the orthopraxic religion of Gardner...
Add to it all you like, but keep the core.
Therefore, most who consider themselves 'Wiccan', are in fact not. They are probably ecclectic neopagan Witches.
An Eclectic, neopagan or soliatry Witch, is not a Wiccan Witch. But a Wiccan Witch, may have extra activities which are eclectic and many do.
To break that down a little bit, Wicca is:
An initiatory fertility cult of Priesthood to two specific Deities, who are oathbound to keep secret, preserve, defend and protect the orthopraxic mystery tradition which they have been taught as initiates.
These are the things that Wicca is, if a tradition is not these things, then it is not Wicca.
Now, to break that down into each of the important bits.
Initiatory: All Wiccans are initiatied. A person is not Wiccan until they have been initiated. Initiation must follow the corret rite. Therefore the person conducting it must know the correct rite which means someone must have taught them the corret rite. This creates the initiatory lineage. An initiation rite is not Wiccan unless it is the correct initiation rite, as Gardner wrote it, performed by a HP/HPS who holds initiatory lineage.
Fertility Cult: Wicca is a fertility cult. Gardner himself called it such. It's rites in essence are about fertility. Therefore, it is not simply a "nature" religion. It is not "earth based" it is Fertility based.
While a Wiccan may percieve fertility to be a part of nature and therefore nature is important, that does not make Wicca nature based. In as much as a fish is only one thing in the ocean, the ocean does not only hold fish Wicca as a fertility cult is much like said fish, it is one part of nature but not the whole. A focus on fertilty is an importat part of Wicca.
Priesthood: All Wiccans are initiates, and by virtue of their initiations, they are declared Priests and Priestesses. So all Wiccans are clergy. Wicca is a priesthood, there are no laity.
Two specific Deities: There are two specific Deities in Wicca. One Male and one Female. They have names which are oathbound and Wicca is the religion of these Deities.
These deities are not jealous Gods, and as such, people who are Wiccan are also free to believe in and worship others Deities outside of / Parallel to their Wiccan practices. Wicca does not teach it's members to believe in only these Deities, it does not tell them to percieve these deities in a maner consistent with soft polythiesm (all Gods are one God, all Goddesses are one Goddess) or in a hard polythiestic manner (all Gods are individual Gods, all Goddesses are individual Goddesses) or indeed in other manners, such as that which would state that All deities are aspects of one supreme being. Regardless of individual spiritual perception of the matter, Wicca itself as a tradition, contains the working of rites to one God and one Goddess with specific names. Due to their true names being oathbound, the honorific placeholder title of 'The Lord and Lady of the Isles' is often used to refer to them without having to divulge the oathbound names. This does not mean that a person gets to choose male Deity X and female Deity Y to be their Lord and Lady though.
Oathbound: Every Wiccan at their initiation swears an oath. This oath is to keep certain parts of Wicca secret. This oath places a number of things in place besides secrecy. It requires that initiates do things as well as requiring them not to do things. Some of these things are relevant to the logical conclusions regarding the nature of what is and is not Wicca and therefore I will make mention of them here.
Preserve - Keep and practice the core as passed on as it was passed to them and pass it on to others who are proper persons properly prepared.
Defend - Defend other Wiccans and Wicca itself from harm that has been is is being caused.
Protect - Protect other Wiccans and Wicca itself from harm that may be caused.
Orthopraxic: Orthopraxic means that Wicca is more about how worship is done rather than why it is done. It is about correct practice more so than correct belief. There is very little 'belief' in Wicca. But there is method of practice. Certain rites should be conducted in a certain way. The orthopraxy of Wicca is the method of obtaining it's mysteries and those mysteries are perhaps the most important part of Wicca.
Mystery: The mysteries are the unknown. The things that cannot be described. The sensations of experiences. The preperation for and the revelation the Gods give to their Priesthood. It might be said that Wicca is it's mysteries. Because of the fundamental nature of mysteries, they cannot be taught by any means other then revelatory experience. They cannot be described or taught in a book, they cannot be written down. Therefore, Wicca can only be taught face to face, in the physical presence of teacher with student and by no other means.
Oathbound: Every Wiccan at their initiations swears an oath. This oath is to keep certain parts of Wicca secret. The oath requires that initiates
Preserve - Keep the core as passed on as it was passed to them and pass it on to others who are proper persons properly prepared. Practice these core rites and pass them on to people who are proper persons properly prepared....
Defend - Defend other Wiccans and Wicca itself from harm that has been, is being or my be caused.
Protect - Protect other Wiccans and Wicca itself from harm that may be caused. To protect the sacred from violations external or internal.
Orthopraxic: Orthopraxic means that Wicca is more about how worship is done rather than why it is done. It is about correct practice more so than correct belief. There is very little 'belief' in Wicca. But there is strict method of practice. Certain rites must be conducted in a certain way. The orthopraxy of Wicca is the method of obtaining it's mysteries.
Mystery: The mysteries are the unknown. The things that cannot be described. The sensations of experiences. The preperation for and the revelation the Gods give to their Priesthood.
So... Initiation is a requirement, as well as service to two specific Deities who's true names are oathbound and a core orthopraxy. The entire core is oathbound to be maintained as is, and to be passed as taught. Thereby preserving it from one initiatory generation to the next with the core in tact, unchanged. With this, the common argument of 'evoloution' begins to look like a sieve. Sure things evolve, sure ideas and perceptions change over time as people learn more through their lifes experiences, but some things do not change. One thing that does not change, is the core orthopraxy of Wicca. Change that, and what you practice is no longer Wicca. This oathed instruction to preserve it as taught makes the fundamental principles of Wicca unchangable. As said before, add to it all you like, but keep the core. No core, not Wicca.
PART 2 to follow
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Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:10 pm
PART 2
Now time to prove it. As I have already mentioned, the source for the assertion that by way of logic, and it is important to understand that it is assertion by logic and intellectual honesty, that Wicca is essentially what Gardner constructed it to be. However, how do we then prove that Gardner did in fact construct it in the way which is outlined above? That is far more simple than it might seem. As regards what these core principles are, considering the proven assertion that Gardner created Wicca, the proofs as to what the core principles are lie in the writings of Gardner.
This is a collection of things Gardner said in published material, his own books and interiews with him and that for ease, I have derrived from a doccument named "What Gardner Said", compiled by a number of Elders in Britain:
Gerald Gardner, Witchcraft Today - pages 28-29
"Being initiated into the witch cult does not give a witch supernatural powers but instructions are given, in rather veiled terms, in processes which develop various clairvoyant and other powers, in those who naturally possess them slightly. If they have none they can create none. Some of these powers are akin to magnetism, mesmerism and suggestion, and depend o the possibility of forming a sort of human battery, as it were, of combined human wills working together to influence persons or events at a distance.
They have instructions in how to learn to do this by practice. It would take many people a long time, if I understand the directions aright. If these arts were more generally practised nowadays, we should call most of them spiritualism, mesmerism, suggestion, E.S.P., Yoga or perhaps Christian Science; to a witch it is all MAGIC, and magic is the art of getting results. To do this certain processes are necessary and the rites are such that these processes may be used. In other words, they condition you. This is the secret of the cult."
This passage highlights the fact that Wicca is an orthopraxy. There are specific ways to achieve specific desired results. It also points to the fact that this orthopraxy is taught only after initiation.
Gardner, Gerald. The Meaning of Witchcraft - page 126
"Gomme, in Folklore as a Historical Science (p. 201 et seq), stresses the importance of the act of initiation as applied to the witch cult. "It emphasizes the existence of a cast apart from the general populace. The existence of this caste long before, where they did practise their powers, carrying back this act of initiation age after age. It is clear that the people who were from time to time introduced into the witch caste carried on the practices and assumed the functions of the caste even though they came into it as novices and strangers. We thus arrive at what might be termed as an artificial means of descent into a peculiar group of superstitions.
This was influenced in the Middle Ages by beliefs of the carrying on of traditional practices by certain families and groups of people who could only acquire such practices by initiation and family teaching."
This is, of course, exactly what happened. It is a family group, if you like; but not all of the family belongs to it, only those who are initiated,"
In this passage Gardner in discussing his experience of being initiated into Wicca speaks of the nature of the group relating it to the quoted passage from Gomme, and in comment points to the importance of initiation. Without initiation you are not Wiccan, even if you are by blood part of a family who's members happen to be Wiccan. It is not membership of a family or group that it important, but initiation into the particular caste or sect, that caste or sect being Wicca as opposed to any other witchcult. “only those who are initiated”.
Gardner, Gerald. Witchcraft Today - page 69
"The witches tell me: "The law has always been that power must be passed from man to woman or from woman to man,[...]""
The 'Power' that must be passed, is what my some would call 'initiation proper', the revelation of the mysteries through initiatory elevations. The understanding of this process is often discussed in the published materais of the Crowters and especially Patricia Crowther HPS and initiate of Gerald Gardners. Initiation must flow from Man to Woman to Man. This creates a clear initiatory lineage. Cross gender initiation is not simply a feature of the creation of Wiccan lineage, but is also indicatory of the orthopraxy. Therefore, one of the signatures of a Wiccan is the holding of cross gendered initiatory lineage.
Gardner, Gerald. Witchcraft Today - page 42
"Before an initiation a charge is read beginning:
[...]
I am forbidden to give any more; but if you accept her rule you are promised various benefits and admitted into the circle, introduced to the Mighty Dead and to the cult members. There is also a small "frightening", an "ordeal" and an "oath"; you are shown certain things and receive some instruction. It is all very simple and direct"
This is a brief description of some of the elements of an initiation ceremony. The stand out aspect of this passage for my purposes is that of oath. That an oath is taken at initiation which forbids Wiccan's from revealing the content of the rituals. Also of imortance is that only after initiation is it that instruction begins. These two elements, that of the oath and when instruction can be given provide a means of maintaining the teachings and of keeping the knowledge of Wicca only amongst initiates.
Gardner, Gerald. The Meaning of Witchcraft - page 118
"I think the only answer is that the Church practised this kind of magic itself, and it knew that witchcraft practised a different form of magic because it was a separate religion, and that it involved the carrying on of a tradition of practices by certain families and groups of people who could only obtain knowledge of these practices by secret initiations"
This highlights that the magic worked in Wicca is different to those of other religions, and is a seperate and distinct religion to others. That the careful preservatoin of the tradition is important and that its teachings are held secret and are only passed via and following initiation into the religion of Wicca.
Gardner, Gerald. The Meaning of Witchcraft - page 120
"Being forced to write their names, I take simply to mean that they were told, "If you want to come again, you must be one of us, that is, be initiated, initiation is a requirement for membership and then you will be a fairy". Now in France, as in Scotland, a large number of people spoke of 'fairies" when they obviously meant witches. It was a more polite term, and in Scotland any communication with "fairies" was taken as an admission of dealing with witches, that is, with the "heathen", the People of the Heaths, who practised the Old Religion and worked magical rites."
Highlighting that initiation is nescessary to membership.
Gardner, Gerald. Witchcraft Today - page 24
"If I were permitted to disclose all their rituals, I think it would be easy to prove that witches are not diabolists; but the oaths are solemn and the witches are my friends. I would not hurt their feelings. They have secrets which to them are sacred. They have good reason for this secrecy."
We all know that Wicca is oathbound, but it does no harm to remind people of this fact. This highlights that Wiccans are oathbound to keep secret their practices.
Bracelin, J. L. Gerald Gardner: Witch - page 199, in quoting Gardner
" 'The witches worship the old gods of the land of Britain, whose tradition is rooted deep in British soil. The old gods are not dead, as I know by experience'."
This highlights that Wiccan's worship specific God's of the British Isles. They are not any God and Goddess a person chooses. Pantheons not of the British Isles are not the deities worshipped in Wicca. As said before though, some Wiccans may personally choose to venerate non Wiccan deities, be they Irish, Greek, Roman, Norse, Egyptian or otherwise. Regardless, the rites of Wicca are the rites of British deities.
Gardner, Gerald. The Meaning of Witchcraft - page 260
"That which has influenced the Group-soul of this country once can do so again. I have already told of the belief of the Wica in the Ancient Gods of these islands. This not mere superstition or a figure of speech. Initiates will understand me when I say that the Gods are real"
This points again to the God's of Wicca being specific God's and not pick 'n' mix any-God-you-like and any-Goddess-you-like. It also points to the fact that what God and Goddess they are is only known by initiates.
Gardner, Gerald. The Meaning of Witchcraft - page 260-261
"Nor is the worshippers' belief in vain; for though they may themselves have built the Magical Image, the Power which ensouls it is real and objective, if the building has been done in the right way."
This excerpt points to the orthopraxic nature of Wicca. It must be done the right way in order to not be in vain.
Gardner, Gerald. The Meaning of Witchcraft - page 260-261
"Of course, the Craft of the Wica is not the only group which seeks to contact the Gods. There are other occult groups which use a similar technique, and their aims are the same, namely to bring through the Divine power to help, guide and uplift mankind at this dangerous and exciting turning-point in human history.
But, so far as I know, these groups generally work with the Egyptian and Greek Gods and Goddesses, and I cannot think that these contacts are as powerful here as they would be upon their native soil; whereas the divinities of the Craft of the Wica are the Ancient Ones of Britain, part of the land itself."
This extract points to a few important points which support the above arguments. First is that it recognizes other groups which are not Wicca. Second, it points again to the fact that the Gods of Wicca are specific God's of the British Isles. It also points that there are other groups who practice what might be similar rites with similar aims, but they are not Wiccan. The third, and a very interesting point, is Gardners personal belief being that of at least some degree of hard polytiesm, recognizing that all Gods are not the same. It also suggests that the deites worked with in Wicca are bound into the fabric of the British Isles being most potent there and his perception that at least some deities do not travel well. This is particuluarly interesting considering he extensively travelled the mediteranian area and the near east.
Gardner, Gerald. The Meaning of Witchcraft - page 165-166
"I must not, however give the impression that the people of Ancient Britain worshipped only one God and only one Goddess, who were exactly the same in all parts of the country. In early early times the country was split up into many different tribes, which, of course, lived in localities differing from each other as to the type of country the were.
For instance, the sea-faring people would conceive their God as a God of the Sea; those who depended upon agriculture would pay most reverence to that aspect of Divinity which manifested as the green and growing things of Nature returning each year, or the fertility of cattle; and the hunters would have a Hunting God. Also, these tribes had different dialects, and even different languages, and so the names of the gods would vary from one part of the country to another. Nor are the Great Ancient Ones mere concepts lingering in the leaves of old books and the minds of old scholars. The people remember, nay the very land itself remembers."
This excerpt points to the fact that Wicca allows for recognition of many God's and Goddesses. However, while Wiccan practice itself is theworship of two deities, it allows for polytheistic understanding of Deity, as either hard or soft Polytheism.
Gardner, Gerald. Witchcraft Todayt - page 32
"My witches speak of him [the tribal god] as god of "Death and what lies beyond": by this they not only mean the life in the next world but resurrection (or reincarnation). He rules a sort of happy hunting ground, where ordinary folk go and foregather with like-minded people; it may be pleasant or unpleasant according to your nature.
According to your merits you may be reincarnated in time, and take your chance where and among whom this takes place; but the god has a special paradise for his worshippers, who have conditioned their bodies and natures on earth, who enjoy special advantages and are prepared more swiftly for reincarnation which is done by the power of the goddess in such circumstances as to insure that you will be born into your own tribe again. This is taken nowadays to mean into witch circles. It would seem to involve an unending series of reincarnations; but I am told that in time you may become one of the mighty ones, who are also called the mighty dead. I can learn nothing about them, but they seem to be like demigods -- or one might call them saints."
Aside from a brief description of a recognizable aspect of the God of Wicca, this paragraph points to one of the few 'beliefs' of Wicca. That of both an afterlife and reincarnation. This is not a detailed belief such as might be found as descriptions of after life in other religions, simply a belief in the cyclical process by the intermediary of an after life. It is also worth noting, that in light of earlier conversations regarding appropriation that, by the way this is discussed thsi belief would be counter to the eastern concepts of the karmic and dharmic cycles to achieve samsara.
Gardner, Gerald. The Meaning of Witchcraft - pages 26-27
"They think that the God and the Goddess assist them in making their magic, as they assist the God and the Goddess in their turn by raising power from them by their dances and by other methods. In fact, they seem to consider the gods as being more like powerful friends than deities to be worshipped. To them the concept of an All-powerful God, one who could simply say, "Let there be peace. Let there be no sickness or misery", and all wars, sickness and misery would cease, and who for his own reasons will not say that word, and keeps men in fear and misery and want, is not fit to receive worship.
They quite realise that there must be some great "Prime Mover", some Supreme Deity; but they think that if It gives them no means of knowing It, it is because It does not want to be known; also possibly, at our present stage of evolution we are incapable of understanding It. So It has appointed what might be called various Under-Gods, who manifest as the tribal gods of different peoples; as the Elohim of the Jews, Isis, Osiris and Horus of the Egyptians, and the Horned God and the Goddess of the witches. They can see no reason why each people should not worship their national gods, or why anyone should strive to prevent them from doing so."
This points to the idea that the God's of Wicca are not all powerful, infallible nor omnipotent. That the God's are imminent and Wiccan's build a deep personal relationship with their God's.
There is also the possibility that there is some greater power than the Gods but because that being doesn't have the same means of making itself known it is beyond worship.
This excerpt also points to another interesting fact, if compatible, a Wiccan may work within other systems of worship.
Gardner, Gerald. Witchcraft Today - pages 139-140
"Our gods are not all-powerful, they need our aid. They desire good to us, fertility for man, beast and crops, but they need our help to bring it about; and by our dances and other means they get that help.
When we die we go to the god's domain, where having rested a while in their lovely country we are prepared to be born again on this earth; and if we perform the rites correctly, by the grace of the Great Mother we will be reborn among those we loved, and will remember, know and love them again, while those who do evil will have a stern schooling in the god's domain before they are fit to be reborn again, and then it will be among strangers."
Again we're back to the orthopraxy. The Gods themselves require certain rites to be conducted nd in doing so, if initiates 'perform the rites correctly', they will then be reborn amid friends and loved ones.
Gardner, Gerald. Witchcraft Today - page 140
"We worship the divine spirit of Creation, which is the Life-Spring of the world and without which the world would perish. To us it is the most sacred and holy mystery, proof that God is within us whose command is: 'Go forth and multiply.' Such rites are done in a holy and reverent way."
Wicca is a fertility religion because the God's are fertility Gods. Being a fertility religion and to the request of the Gods, sexual expression of fertility is therefore part and parcel of Wiccan practice and it's mysteries. Rites that express this however are done in a holy and reverent way, as to what denotes holy and reverent is again a matter of orthopraxy and individual ethic and morality.
Gardner, Gerald. The Meaning of Witchcraft - page 16
"Witch meetings today may take place anywhere that it is convenient, and only people who have been initiated into the cult are allowed to be present."
There it is, straight from the horses mouth. No beating around the bush. No membersip or paricipation without initiation. Therefore it must be assumed, that if you attend a ritual with initiated Wiccans and you yourself are not Wiccan, the rites performed are not those of the orthopraxy nor those which are likely to open the mysteries. Basically, you would not be witness to that which is oathbound.
Gardner, Gerald. Witchcraft Today - page 24
"For one reason or another they keep the names of their god and goddess secret. To them the cult has existed unchanged"
Here we are again with the idea that vital aspects of Wicca are oathbound. In this case the names of the God and Goddess. This excerpt also points to the importance of the practice not changing EVER! Remember, the oaths demand that the practice remain unchanged.
Gardner, Gerald. Witchcraft Today - page 116
"They have no regular system of passwords, that I could discover, to recognize each other by. But at initiations there were certain words required to pass you into the circle, and there are certain catchphrases that could be used as such; of course a knowledge of the mysteries would prove that you were initiated. Actually, they all know each other, or are introduced, so they do not need passwords."
There are a number of pertinent things in this passage. First is yet another reiteration that secret/oathound information is passed at initiation. The other very importatnt thing here is that Wicca is a Mystery Religion. Through experiencing the mysteries, via performance of orthopraxic rites, Wiccan's develop a common language with each other that help to indicate that the person is an initiate of a given rank. The passage also points out that Wiccan's know each other through introduction, in the Global community today, this is often termed 'Vouching'. In order for a stranger to prove they are Wiccan they may be asked pertinent things, who their teacher and initiator was, a vouch confirming that and perhaps also questions about practice.
It is very important to many Wiccans to be able to identify their own, and by virtue of that, who is not. Firstly because of the oaths of secrecy, but also in that the oaths demand that initiates "remain true" to and "defend and protect" other initiates and the teachings.
Gardner, Gerald. The Meaning of Witchcraft - pages 21-22
"Now, while the ancient authors who were initiated into a number of the mysteries agree that they were all the same basically, and there is a certain amount of agreement among modern authors about what their secrets were, I doubt very much if any of them realises the reason behind them, "what made them work," in fact; and what makes things work is the witches' secret. I think that this was probably the practical secret of the ancient Mysteries also."
Again with the orthopraxy! This is possibly one of the strongest statements Gardner himself made as regards the importance of orthopraxy. The practical method by which to attain the mysteries is a secret method and that method is just as important as the mysteries themselves.
Gardner, Gerald. The Meaning of Witchcraft - page 42
"Witches have a firmly-rooted belief in their own powers, and the danger of these being misused if uninitiated people learn their methods."
Quite simple here, the uninitiated shall not know of the methods of the orthopraxy and therefore the method to attain the mysteries or the method to attaining magic.
Gardner, Gerald. The Meaning of Witchcraft - page 228
"The worship of the witch cult is, and always has been, that of the principle of Life itself. It has made of that principle, as manifested in sex, something sacred... There is still, in the collective unconsciousness of men's minds, a realisation of the rightness of the Old Sacred Marriage."
Wicca is a fertility cult that practices sex rites and rites of a sexual nature. This is something that is actually quite important. No it doesn't mean orgies every full moon. Often it is much more subtle than that. But as said before, it is a fertility cult and the evidence of such can be seen through the paradigm created by the mysteries revealed through the practice of such rites as Gardner here mentions.
Now that we have overviewed what Gardner himself actually said in order to understand how he constructed Wicca and the important parts that identify it, it is obvious that the things most stressed by Gardner is that Wicca is initiatory and oathbound fertility cult of clergy, that the methods are specific and 'orthopraxic' and that the two specific Deities are oathbound and unique to Wicca and through their symniosis with their Priesthood (ie initiates) give to them their mysteries.
So, allow me to reapeat myself again, with logic applied and bearing these primary source and scholastic proofs in mind, without initiation; a person cannot know the deities, cannot know the practices and cannot know the mysteries. At initiation an oath is sworn that holds initiates, now priesthood, to maintain these specific practices.
So, when you look at what Gardner created, if there is no lineaged initiation, and all that can be provided after that initiation, teachings etc, then it's not Wicca.
Why do the Books say Ecclectic, Solitary, Celtic, (insert adjective here) is Wicca?
Over the years, and especially since the 1980's, a number of authors began promoting their books about witchcraft as being about "Wicca". People like Cunningham, Buckland and others. Some such books being mistitled by the publisher who had a vested interest in making witchcraft popular and selling books.
Many books written then, and in decades since, could be said to have been in response to the Pagan Way outercourt materials that were circulating at the time and thus giving them a flavour of the outercourt training/teachings of Wicca. Witchcraft was popular and some people, especially the publisher Carl Lewellyn, felt 'Wicca' was more palatable a term than 'Witchcraft' and therefore easier to sell. Many practices of Witchcraft, even those who were quite happy with being Witches, were encouraged to use the 'less offensive' term of 'Wicca'. This appropriation was wrong. It gave no consideration to the meaning of Wicca, simply deciding it was an unoffensive term for religious witchcraft. That is not what Wicca means. Wicca is not a synonym for religious Witchcraft.
Also at the time of their publishing were presenting a very limited view to their readers. The two earliest authors to sell their material as Wicca being Cunningham and Gardner. Other authors of the time, if you look to their first prints chose the term Witchcraf. Ed Fitch's works is an example of this. I wold posit, that while both Cunnngham and Buckland were likely accomplished Withes and Occultst, neither was especially adept or experienced in regards to Wicca. Cunningham having been a 1st degree initiate of the Gardnerian tradition but not fully trained (hardly at all in fact) and pretty much kicked out of his initiating coven and Buclkand having been rushed through initiatory rank by Monique Wilson and initiated by her (and not by Gardner as he has claimed in the past - ie lied about in the past), taught by correspondance and whistlestop practical training and thus being without much experience, and then utterly schismed from his coven and partner creating his own tradition which utterly changed the orthopraxy enough to no longer be Wicca. I am of course talking about his Seax tradition. While both men have generated their own Witchcraft traditions, Cunningham the Standing Stone tradition of Witchcraft and Buckland the Seax tradition of Withcraft, these traditions are not Wiccan traditions.
Combine these things with the insistence of Carl Llewellyn to shape Wicca into something he could publish and sell by way of the infamous council of Witches and the laughable 13 codes and other fabrications of what Wicca and indeed witchcraft is, from what would appear to have been from self serving egotists looking to make money from religion and acquire fame, and you have a few generations of Witches believing themselves to be Wiccan, when it is more accurate to say they are eclectic neopagan Witches.
Generations have been lied to and lied to so well that they did not question far beyond what they were told!
But what about those people practicing for decades who say they're Wiccan?
For the last thirty or so years, there have been eclectic neopagan witches convinced they were Wiccan. Why? Because, for the most part, someone at one point or another read a book that told a great big lie. A proven lie. They believed it, fell for it hook line and sinker, maybe because it made them feel like a spekhul ikkle snowflake, maybe because they were more comfortable with Wiccan than Witch. They in turn promoted this piece of false information, knowingly or most likely not, to others, who in turn went forth and multiplied and today, thirty or so years on, we have people who I'm sure are capable of truth but have been staring at a lie for so long, they just can't see it any more because you know what, we all know it's uncomfortable admitting you are wrong and having comfortable labels and words taken away. Me included. But feelings and emotional reactions are not a part of my argument. Argumentum ad misericordiam (appeals to emotion) are perhaps amongst the worst forms of flawed logic there is. Personally I think it a greater wrong to not say something is factually incorrect or misleading rather than let someone believe it because they feel better that way.
But hey, I'd prefer the truth myself. I'd prefer to honour myself and my Gods by calling what I do by it's proper name and not some pretend name in order to validate it to others. When I work alone, I do not call it Wicca. When people work in ways that are not aligned with Wicca, I will not call it Wicca. Why? Because that's not what it is! Even if a Wiccan elder of many many years works in a manner that is not Wicca, it may be 'craft', but it is not Wicca and if it draws from sources unaligned to Wicca then those sources should be acknowledged and recognized rather than being pasted incorrectly with the 'wicca' brush.
It's quite simple really: just because a book says that if you believe in the rede and the rule of three, worship a God and a Goddess, celebrate the seasons, nature and all that other stuff books tell you to do, that you are Wiccan, does not mean it is true.
A recently published book by the last surviving direct initiate of Gerald Gardner, Patricia Crowther, has the following interesting passages that are appropriate as a closing note.
Patricia Crowther, Covensense page 211
"'DIY' witches may scoff at keeping to the old ways, and perform their initiations from published books, but the thing that they fail to grasp is that genuine initiations are those bestowed by an already initiated witch in a line that goes back into the distant past. There is also the transference of psychic power. This is one of the most important aspects of a true initiation and one which carries solemn responsibilities and dedication to the Goddess and the God.
Today, there is a lot of 'dumbing down', a debilitating attitude to life and learning on all levels, and it seems to have crept into the Craft. Many of today's pagans appear to be attracted to the Craft for the wrong reasons. To them it seems glamorous and romantic and really rather fun. It is none of these things. The Mysteries are magnificent in their revelations of Selfhood, but they cannot be bought; and the Gods will not reveal Themselves to those who believe otherwise. There is a corrupting influence abroad in today's materialistic society in which people are taught that money will buy anything. Well, it will not! And adherents of the Craft know the truth of this. They also know that initiation into the Mysteries is earned the hard way, by work and discipline, which are an integral part of life's pattern and grant a wolesome inner satisfaction combined with spiritual enlightenment."
Patricia Crowther, Covensense page 113
"I loathe to see the Craft degraded in any way whatsoever, and I'm afraid it has been in some quarters. Today, we have no end of DIY witches, and some of their stupid actions reflect badly uon the genuine traditions of the Craft and bring it into disrepute. I understand that modern trends permit anything and everything but, when I read books in which the authors actually state that you can use your finger instead of the athame to draw the Circle, I can hardly believe what I am reading. Do they transfer the symbols on the athame to their fingers? Do they use a different finger for a wand? It is glaringly obvious that they know nothing about the true meanings and use of the athame. The writers are either pulling the readers' legs - hard - or insulting their intelligence. "
To summarize so, academically and logically provable fact states that a Wiccan is a practitioner and initiate of a lineaged tradition related through teaching and initiation to Gerald Gardner. There is no way, outside of fallicious arguments, that is arguments outside of logic, such as argument from popularity, arguments of appeal to emotion, even appeals to authority based on being a practitioner and other logical fallacies, that demonstrate that eclectic and solitary paths are Wicca. There is nohing wrong with such paths spiritually, they are fulfilling ways to work and I can personally testify to that, but they are not the orthopraxic priesthood of the Lord and Lady of the Isles.
Next up: A list of ALL the traditions of Wicca with explanations
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Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:12 pm
Traditions of Wicca
With Explanations
Traditions: What are the various traditions of Traditional Wicca?
There have come to be numerous traditions of Wicca. These traditions do not include "eclectic", "Celtic" or whatever... the following are the only traditions which have a certain and provable claim to being Wicca.
*Gardnerian
*Alexandrian
*Mohsian
*Central Valley (a collective term for the traditions named below)
-Silver Crescent
-Kingstone
-Daoine Coire
-Assembly of Wicca
-Majestic
There are other traditions that are considered to be closely related and where some individual covens are Wicca and others are not, or that the members of the tradition are Wiccan but the tradition itself is not.
*Algard (although there do not seem to be any active covens of this trad)
*Protean (A very controverscial lineage amongst "hard gard's")
*BlueStar (the tradition itself is not Wicca, however it's members are initiates of other traditions of Wicca and as such are capable of passing their individual lineage)
An overview of the straight up legitimate traditions and the grey gooey ones.
Gardnerian
In the 1950's, after England repealed its witchcraft laws, Gerald Gardner went public about his practice of witchcraft. He rewrote the rituals of the coven he belonged to so that they would be more complete as a functional body of ritual work. Gardnerian covens have a degree system in which one learns about the craft.
Alexandrian
Alex Sanders founded this tradition in the 1960's. Much Alexandiran ritual and practice is similar to Gardnerian practices. Some would note that Alexandrians place more emphasis on ceremonial magick, however this is not the case although it could be said to be true that most of the rituals are quite formal and heavily indebted to ceremonial magick. It is also a polarized tradition and the sexuality of that female/male polarity is emphasized. The biggest most obvious difference as far as the seeker is concerned, is that an Alexandrian Coven does not require you to be an initiate to share in ceremony alongside initiates, however in such instances aspects of true core ritual are altered to greater or lesser extents. Training before initiation is a hallmark of Alexandrian Craft, as is experimentation and addition to core. Although similiar to Gardnerian Wicca, Alexandrian Wicca tends to be more eclectic, and liberal. Some of the Gardnerian strict rules, such as skyclad practice, have been made optional by Alexandrian Wicca although in practice the majority of Alexandrian rituals are performed skyclad with the adaptability should need arise, to work robed.
CVW
Central Valley Wicca (abbreviated as CVW) is not a tradition in itself but rather refers to a particular group of traditions within the Neopagan religion of Wicca which trace their roots to a group of Wiccan practitioners who brought their practice from England to the Central Valley of California at some point in the early 1960s.
Central Valley Wicca shares basic beliefs with, and has similar ritual structures and practices to, other forms of British Traditional Witchcraft as they are practiced in England. They maintain core teachings. However, their interpretation of some of the material is unique, and their lore is similar but not identical.
Mohsian
The Mohsian Tradition of Wicca was founded in the early 1960's by Bill and Helen Mohs. Mohsian is comprised of many threads from British Traditional and other sources. Much of the ritual is derived from early (pre-U.S.) Gardnerian and Alexandrian, and the initiatory lineage is an offshoot of pre buckland Gardnerian. The matricarch of the tradition identifies it's hallmarks as self-reliance, creativity, study and independent thinking.
There are a number of distinct lines with varied practices as each 3rd has freedom to alter those components that make the tradition distinct from other forms of Wicca.
Algard
In 1972, Mary Nesnick, an American who was initiated into both Gardnerian and Alexandrian traditions, combined the Gardnerian tradition with the Alexandrian to form the Algard tradition. Some people think that in practice this combination ends up being very close to the Gardnerian tradition because much of Alexandrian ritual is similar to Gardnerian to begin with.
Protean
This is a very new tradition borne from Proteus Coven, originally a Gardnerian coven. With the aproval of their Queen, Proteus began experementing. The Gardnerian community did not much like this "renegade" behaviour and so a long battle with the "hard gards" began. The majority of Protean's are Gardnerian initiates, some are also initiates of other traditions. The Tradition passes the core as is required by all BTW but has expanded its practice beyond Gardnerian core. This is a newly formed trad so recognition of their lineage and practice is unsure.
BlueStar
Blue Star Wicca is one of a number of neo-pagan traditions created in the United States in the 1970s based loosely on the Gardnerian and Alexandrian traditions. It continues to be practiced today in areas of the United States. It in itself is not strictly a Wiccan tradition, however it's members are more often than not initiates of Gardnerian or more often, Alexandrian Wicca.
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Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 7:29 am
Thank you very much for helping me clear all this up!
I would very much like to be initiated into a true wiccan tradition. Can you please tell me how I might find a True Wiccan Coven?
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Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 10:33 am
Xandine Zippers Thank you very much for helping me clear all this up! I would very much like to be initiated into a true wiccan tradition. Can you please tell me how I might find a True Wiccan Coven?
Amber and Jet used to have a really great directory. I would suggest starting there.
Also, here on Gaia there is a guild (Seekers' Signpost) that was started by the same HPS that wrote up the above info-dumps. Its sole purpose is to help Seekers (people who wish to be initiated into Wicca) find their path.
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Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 2:55 pm
Xandine Zippers Actually, Gerald B. Gardner did not create Wicca. He himself was initiated into a coven and was brought into the religion. He was merely the first Wiccan to ever publish information on Wicca. A large feat, for sure, but he is not actually the founder of the Religion. The true founder is unknown. He Himself States that in his writing. And you're right, Witchcraft and Wicca are not one in the same. One is a system, while the other is a religion. `Though thy crest be shorn and shaven, thou,' I said, `art sure no craven.
Ghastly grim and ancient raven wandering from the nightly shore - Um no that wasn't a Wiccan coven but an initionary witchcraft coven. As I said at the time he was initiated, witchcraft was outlawed so people had to become of these covens in secret thus the reason why people had to be initiated. Because of this Gardner took from this coven the initiations and the need for it to be a secret. While Gardner was initiated in this coven, he did indeed create Wicca taking bits and pieces from different places and created his religion.
Ren is posting 3 separate info dumps really neccessary? Why not just summarize them, and have the other people ask questions. I mean really a fluffy bunny with the attention span of a flea isn't going to sit down and read all of it. Tell me what thy lordly name is on the Night's Plutonian shore!'
Quoth the raven, `Nevermore.'
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Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 6:48 pm
Ravynne Sidhe Ren is posting 3 separate info dumps really neccessary? Why not just summarize them, and have the other people ask questions. I mean really a fluffy bunny with the attention span of a flea isn't going to sit down and read all of it. Tell me what thy lordly name is on the Night's Plutonian shore!'
Quoth the raven, `Nevermore.'
The answer to that is simple: At the time I was feeling to lazy to type out the information myself (even a short summarized version). But I'm not feeling so lazy now. If she still has any questions, I'll be more than happy to answer them.
Also, long time no see! biggrin
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Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 6:50 pm
Renkon Root Ravynne Sidhe Ren is posting 3 separate info dumps really neccessary? Why not just summarize them, and have the other people ask questions. I mean really a fluffy bunny with the attention span of a flea isn't going to sit down and read all of it. Tell me what thy lordly name is on the Night's Plutonian shore!'
Quoth the raven, `Nevermore.'
The answer to that is simple: At the time I was feeling to lazy to type out the information myself (even a short summarized version). But I'm not feeling so lazy now. If she still has any questions, I'll be more than happy to answer them.
Also, long time no see! biggrin
`Though thy crest be shorn and shaven, thou,' I said, `art sure no craven.
Ghastly grim and ancient raven wandering from the nightly shore - Don't be lazy or I'll smack you in the a** with my dictionary.
Eh I suppose. Tell me what thy lordly name is on the Night's Plutonian shore!'
Quoth the raven, `Nevermore.'
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Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 6:55 pm
Ravynne Sidhe Renkon Root Ravynne Sidhe Ren is posting 3 separate info dumps really neccessary? Why not just summarize them, and have the other people ask questions. I mean really a fluffy bunny with the attention span of a flea isn't going to sit down and read all of it. Tell me what thy lordly name is on the Night's Plutonian shore!'
Quoth the raven, `Nevermore.'
The answer to that is simple: At the time I was feeling to lazy to type out the information myself (even a short summarized version). But I'm not feeling so lazy now. If she still has any questions, I'll be more than happy to answer them.
Also, long time no see! biggrin
`Though thy crest be shorn and shaven, thou,' I said, `art sure no craven.
Ghastly grim and ancient raven wandering from the nightly shore - Don't be lazy or I'll smack you in the a** with my dictionary.
Eh I suppose. Tell me what thy lordly name is on the Night's Plutonian shore!'
Quoth the raven, `Nevermore.'
Oh, baby! That sounds HOT!
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Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 6:56 pm
Renkon Root Ravynne Sidhe Renkon Root Ravynne Sidhe Ren is posting 3 separate info dumps really neccessary? Why not just summarize them, and have the other people ask questions. I mean really a fluffy bunny with the attention span of a flea isn't going to sit down and read all of it. Tell me what thy lordly name is on the Night's Plutonian shore!'
Quoth the raven, `Nevermore.'
The answer to that is simple: At the time I was feeling to lazy to type out the information myself (even a short summarized version). But I'm not feeling so lazy now. If she still has any questions, I'll be more than happy to answer them.
Also, long time no see! biggrin
`Though thy crest be shorn and shaven, thou,' I said, `art sure no craven.
Ghastly grim and ancient raven wandering from the nightly shore - Don't be lazy or I'll smack you in the a** with my dictionary.
Eh I suppose. Tell me what thy lordly name is on the Night's Plutonian shore!'
Quoth the raven, `Nevermore.'
Oh, baby! That sounds HOT!
`Though thy crest be shorn and shaven, thou,' I said, `art sure no craven.
Ghastly grim and ancient raven wandering from the nightly shore - Did I mention I also offer castration -sighs-
And why are you quoting me twice? Tell me what thy lordly name is on the Night's Plutonian shore!'
Quoth the raven, `Nevermore.'
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