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Euphonious Cantabile

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:45 pm


New spelling changes in the Royal Spanish Academy (RAE)

Better source:

About.com: Changes proposed in Spanish spelling

Original source

[huge block quote removed]

What do you guys think of all this, particularly those of you speak Spanish or are learning Spanish? I'm also particularly confused with this:

Quote:
Of course, the disappearance of the Y also affects America, now called simply i.


Does that mean because the Y is being removed from the Spanish language that the English alphabet will be affected, too? Cuz that's what I'm getting from that line.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:47 pm


Soprano Mochi Kitty
New spelling changes in the Royal Spanish Academy (RAE)

Source

Quote:
The new edition of the spelling of the Royal Spanish Academy, to be published before Christmas, presents updates and innovations from the previous edition, 1999. Javier Rodriguez Marcos wrote on Friday in El Pais that the coordinator of the new proposal, Salvador Gutiérrez Ordóñez1, insists that the changes are not “at all” revolutionary and refuses even to use the word “reform.”

The new spelling of the Spanish Royal Academy sets the name of some letters, change “quorum” for and removes the accents of “only”, “script” and “or” between numbers.

The Y is e, b will be (high or Be not Be Long), the ch and ll are no longer letters of the alphabet is removed tick in one and demonstratives (this, this …) and in or between numbers (5 or 6) and quorum shall cuórum, while Qatar is Qatar.

The new edition of the spelling of the Royal Spanish Academy, to be published before Christmas, try to be, as its coordinator, Salvador Gutiérrez Ordóñez, “reasoned and thorough but simple and readable.” And above all “consistent” with the use of speakers and grammatical rules. Therefore the stresses academic updates and innovations arising from the previous edition, 1999, but is not “at all” revolutionary. Gutiérrez Ordóñez is reluctant even to use the word “reform.”

However, the director of the Department of Spanish Day of the HKSAR is aware that the spelling changes always provoke resistance among some speakers. Hence the relevance, says panhispánico consensus that the Commission has sought IAP association that brings together the Spanish Language Academies worldwide. On Wednesday, the commission, meeting in San Millan de la Cogolla (La Rioja) has approved the basic text of the new spelling of the Spanish language. In the absence of final ratification on 28 this month at the Guadalajara International Book Fair (Mexico) during the height of the 22 schools, these are some of the “innovations point” approved this week and highlighted by the very Gutiérrez Ordóñez.

The Y will ye.
Some letters of our alphabet received several names: be, be high or benefits for long b; vee, be low or benefits cuts for v, double vee, go double or go to w, i Greek or karma for the letter and , gallo pinto, yield, zeta or Zeda to z. The new Spelling proposes a single name for each letter: be to b, for v vee, double vee for w and e for y (i rather than Greek). According to the coordinator of the new text, the most widely used in Spanish of the Y is consonant (lightning, horse), hence its new name, the majority also in many countries in Latin America. Of course, the disappearance of the Y also affects America, now called simply i.

Ch and ll are not letters of the alphabet.
Since the nineteenth century, the letter combinations ch and ll were considered letters of the alphabet, but in 1999 became Spelling digraphs considered, namely “signs two-letter spelling.” However, both ch and ll remained in the alphabet chart. The new edition of the deleted “formally.” Thus, the letters of the alphabet become 27.

Only black coffee without tilde.
There are two written accent uses traditionally associated with the tilde diacritic (amending the letter as well as the modified, for example, the umlaut: arrive, old). These two uses are: 1) the determinants demonstration opposing this, this, these, these (That book I like) versus pronominal uses the same ways (That I do not like). 2) The voice that made the adverbial use only (just arrived here) its value adjective (lives alone).

“How are you distinctions are not strictly conform to the rules of diacritical tilde (as in no way precludes a tonic to an unstressed word), since 1959 spelling rules restricting accent mandatory only for situations of ambiguity (Said tomorrow it will / said this morning there, I’ll just this summer / I’ll just this summer). Because such cases are rare and are easily resolved by the context, remember that you can not tick the adverb alone and demonstrative pronouns even in cases of ambiguity “, it says the commission of the new spelling, which, yes, it does not condemn their use if someone wants to use the tilde. Coffee for everyone. However, the SAR has spent decades leading by example and since 1960 in its publications does not tick either alone or in the demonstration.

Guion, also without a tilde.
So far, the HKSAR considered “within the meaning spelling monosyllabic words that included a series of vowels pronounced as hiatuses in some areas as Hispanic and diphthongs in others.” However, allowing “writing accents to those who clearly perceive the existence of hiatus.” You could therefore write script-script, hui-hui, laugh, laugh, Sion-Sion, buffoon, rascal, fie, fie … The new Spelling believes that these words are “monosyllabic spelling purposes” and that whatever form of delivery, is always written without accent: script, Hui, laugh, Sion, buffoon and fie. In this case also, the HKSAR is not limited to proposing and “condemns” any other use. As Salvador Gutiérrez Ordóñez said, “write script will be a spelling mistake.”

4 or 5 and not 4 or 5.
The old spellings were prepared thinking that everybody used to write by hand. The new has not lost sight of the modern mechanical writing: the already decrepit typewriter to computer. So far, the conjunction or write with accents when he appeared between numbers (4 or 5 million). Was an exception to the rules of Spanish accent, “was the only word that could lead tilde unstressed.” However, computer keyboards have eliminated “the danger of confusing the letter or the number zero, larger.”

Qatar and Qatar do not.
Although there always was, reminiscent of the coordinator of the new spelling, the letter k and Spanish fully, thus deleting the letter q as alone represents the phoneme / k /. “In our system of writing the letter q represents only the phoneme / k / in the combination qu before eoi (cheese, wanted). Therefore, writing a few words with q (Iraq, Qatar, quorum) represents an inconsistency with rules. ” Hence happens to be written now: Iraq, Qatar and cuórum. What if someone prefers the previous script: “You must do it as if it were of foreign raw (Qatar and quorum, in italics and without tilde).”



What do you guys think of all this, particularly those of you speak Spanish or are learning Spanish? I'm also particularly confused with this:

Quote:
Of course, the disappearance of the Y also affects America, now called simply i.


Does that mean because the Y is being removed from the Spanish language that the English alphabet will be affected, too? Cuz that's what I'm getting from that line.


No, Spanish and English are not the same language. They mean the Spanish used in the U.S. will be affected. Not English.

Mikagi-sama

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:08 pm


Mikagi-sama
Soprano Mochi Kitty
New spelling changes in the Royal Spanish Academy (RAE)

Source

Quote:
Chopped xD


No, Spanish and English are not the same language. They mean the Spanish used in the U.S. will be affected. Not English.


I know Spanish and English aren't the same language, but the way that part was worded made me confused.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 8:31 am


Quote:
The Y is e, b will be (high or Be not Be Long), the ch and ll are no longer letters of the alphabet is removed tick in one and demonstratives (this, this …) and in or between numbers (5 or 6) and quorum shall cuórum, while Qatar is Qatar.
Am I the only one that doesn't even remotely understand this? @_@

So the Spanish language is undergoing some major spelling changes...? The whole article is hard to understand...

Ukryu

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 12:18 pm


Ukryu
Quote:
The Y is e, b will be (high or Be not Be Long), the ch and ll are no longer letters of the alphabet is removed tick in one and demonstratives (this, this …) and in or between numbers (5 or 6) and quorum shall cuórum, while Qatar is Qatar.
Am I the only one that doesn't even remotely understand this? @_@

So the Spanish language is undergoing some major spelling changes...? The whole article is hard to understand...


Yeah I was rather confused as well. But I heard from a native Spanish speaker on deviantArt that the Royal Spanish Academy wants to remove some letters and the tilde or something (of course, I also can't take her seriously at the same time because she bashed Americans).
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 1:40 pm


Ukryu
Quote:
The Y is e, b will be (high or Be not Be Long), the ch and ll are no longer letters of the alphabet is removed tick in one and demonstratives (this, this …) and in or between numbers (5 or 6) and quorum shall cuórum, while Qatar is Qatar.
Am I the only one that doesn't even remotely understand this? @_@

So the Spanish language is undergoing some major spelling changes...? The whole article is hard to understand...



I agree, it is pretty hard to understand. I remember reading in an Intermediate Spanish book a few years ago that Spanish had demoted "ch" and "ll" from being separate letters of their own, and it seems that that is one of the things mentioned in the article. Aside from that, I find the article to be pretty hard to understand.

cinracwil


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 2:17 pm


Ukryu
Quote:
The Y is e, b will be (high or Be not Be Long), the ch and ll are no longer letters of the alphabet is removed tick in one and demonstratives (this, this …) and in or between numbers (5 or 6) and quorum shall cuórum, while Qatar is Qatar.
Am I the only one that doesn't even remotely understand this? @_@

So the Spanish language is undergoing some major spelling changes...? The whole article is hard to understand...


I think I remember seeing somewhere that you're learning Spanish too?

Quote:
La i griega será ye, la b será be (y no be alta o be larga); la ch y la ll dejan de ser letras del alfabeto; se elimina la tilde en solo y los demostrativos (este, esta…) y en la o entre números (5 o 6) y quorum será cuórum, mientras que Qatar será Catar.


Translators fail. xP
The article makes complete sense in Spanish, for any Spanish speakers.

To me, the whole thing seems kinda pointless...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 2:24 pm


Lord Fon Fabre
Ukryu
Quote:
The Y is e, b will be (high or Be not Be Long), the ch and ll are no longer letters of the alphabet is removed tick in one and demonstratives (this, this …) and in or between numbers (5 or 6) and quorum shall cuórum, while Qatar is Qatar.
Am I the only one that doesn't even remotely understand this? @_@

So the Spanish language is undergoing some major spelling changes...? The whole article is hard to understand...


I think I remember seeing somewhere that you're learning Spanish too?

Quote:
La i griega será ye, la b será be (y no be alta o be larga); la ch y la ll dejan de ser letras del alfabeto; se elimina la tilde en solo y los demostrativos (este, esta…) y en la o entre números (5 o 6) y quorum será cuórum, mientras que Qatar será Catar.


Translators fail. xP
The article makes complete sense in Spanish, for any Spanish speakers.

To me, the whole thing seems kinda pointless...
OHH, that makes a lot more sense. Shoulda known the article was just google translated lol.

Ukryu

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 3:00 pm


Ukryu
Lord Fon Fabre
Ukryu
Quote:
The Y is e, b will be (high or Be not Be Long), the ch and ll are no longer letters of the alphabet is removed tick in one and demonstratives (this, this …) and in or between numbers (5 or 6) and quorum shall cuórum, while Qatar is Qatar.
Am I the only one that doesn't even remotely understand this? @_@

So the Spanish language is undergoing some major spelling changes...? The whole article is hard to understand...


I think I remember seeing somewhere that you're learning Spanish too?

Quote:
La i griega será ye, la b será be (y no be alta o be larga); la ch y la ll dejan de ser letras del alfabeto; se elimina la tilde en solo y los demostrativos (este, esta…) y en la o entre números (5 o 6) y quorum será cuórum, mientras que Qatar será Catar.


Translators fail. xP
The article makes complete sense in Spanish, for any Spanish speakers.

To me, the whole thing seems kinda pointless...
OHH, that makes a lot more sense. Shoulda known the article was just google translated lol.


Wait, someone google translated that article? O.o; -totally did not catch that-
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 3:57 pm


The original Spanish article does make sense. I should have suspected that the English version was a bad translation.

cinracwil


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 5:53 pm


Grayowljsv
The original Spanish article does make sense. I should have suspected that the English version was a bad translation.


Same here. sweatdrop I didn't realize that the article automatically translated itself.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:29 pm


Quote:
and y would become ye instead of i griega.


Thank god!

Quote:
Use of the q would be dropped in words of foreign origin: Iraq would become Irak (it's already spelled that way in some areas), quórum would become cuórum, and Qatar would become Catar.


I find this confusing considering Pakistan is called "Paquistán" in Spanish... but okay >_>

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:06 pm


But don't people enjoy Spanish the way it is? Calling "y" "ye" instead of "i griega", though makes sense, shows how Spanish's names for words come from Latin. Romance languages share (or shared) this (i grec).

For those confused by this, "i griega" is upsilon in Greek (υψιλον). It represented [y] which is the vowel ü in German and such. (say "ee" but round your lips). Because the difference between and [y] is only roundness in articulation, upsilon became "i griega" (Greek I).

Considering that vowel isn't in Spanish, I guess it makes sense to give it a new name...
PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 3:53 am


Quote:
Use of the q would be dropped in words of foreign origin: Iraq would become Irak (it's already spelled that way in some areas), quórum would become cuórum, and Qatar would become Catar.

how stupid they are..
People used "Q" for translitrating "ق" and "غ" because of lack of an equivalent for in European language...
I think Q were chosen because some of the words with Q that Entered to Middle eastern languages have been pronounced with غ like Quarantine (غرنتینه) ....
and in the other hand IPA uses Q for غ in phonetics...

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