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Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:16 pm
I know someone else already posted about Karate, but different styles come from different masters and have developed in different ways so I'm posting about my style of Karate, Shuai Jaio, and Chin Na...
Ryu Te Kempo developed in Okinawa, Japan on the Ryukyu Islands...It was developed by Taika Oyata...Ryu Te Kempo tends to flow more than most other styles of Karate because it contains Chinese influences because of how close it is to China...Ryu Te contains Tuite Jitsu which is joint manipulation/joint locking and Kyushu Jitsu which is pressure point striking...
Chin na was founded in China and is not considered to be a martial art, but a supplement to the martial arts because it is found in every martial art...Chin na is mainly joint locking (dividing the tendons or muscles) or misplacing the joint or bone, but it also contains cavity strikes (nerve point striking), sealing the breath (air chokes), and sealing the arteries (blood chokes)...Jujitsu and Aikido originated from the principles of Chin na...
Shuai Jiao is a Chinese martial art that uses your opponent's strength against them to throw or take-down your opponent...It uses technique rather than strength to bring down an attacker...I don't know much more about it because I didn't get to work with it very long...(Sorry I accidentally spelled shuai jiao wrong in the forum name...I'm not good at spelling lol)
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Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 10:30 am
So compared to other grappling arts (because from the description you're giving there a lot of grappling involved) ... how would you counter some of things ... such as someone shooting for a double leg takedown ... or maybe someone pulling guard ...
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Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 7:35 pm
For a double leg take-down you would use what we call sprawl...We have two different types, one in which we land in side control and the other we land in front of the attacker and from there we have access to their back in which we can use jiu-jitsu...
Many of the Chin na and Shuai Jiao techniques can be applied in a clench phase of combat or grabs to the wrist...
One of the rules of Chin na is "If you don't think you can apply the technique fast enough, then don't use it..." The reasoning for this is because if your opponent detects what you are going to use then the techniques are easy to counter...We normally use a distraction, such as a punch or kick to take our opponent off guard to use the techniques...
For the techniques you mention I would most-likely use Ryu Te rather than Chin na or Shuai Jiao because I've been in Ryu Te longer (almost 3 and a half years) Chin na I've done for a year, maybe a year and a half, and shuai jiao I've only worked with a few months...
Hopefully this answers your question...If it doesn't let me know and I'll try to explain it better...
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Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 8:51 pm
Knowing most the wrestlers I train with ... they drive and move with the target ... but against a beginner no doubt those counters would work ...
but I'm unclear on how your style would counter someone pulling guard ...
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Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:29 pm
Sprawl is perfect for someone who drives forward because you push them to the ground with your body weight, so you let gravity do the work...
In a real self defense situation, like on the street we teach to use your elbows to strike the spine or back of the head or neck as you kick out your legs, stablizing your base and putting them too far back for someone to reach...
Chin na, your goal in that case would be not to be taken to the ground...Only level 5 and 6 do ground work, so I'm guessing it would deal with those types of positions then...(I'm only a level 2/3)...Shuai Jiao, your intent would not be to go down with your opponent, simply to throw them, unless you have trained ground fighting such as wrestling or jiu-jitsu...Ryu Te Kempo Karate, I would say we try not to go down with our opponent too often because we wouldn't know if they have been a wrestler or done jiu-jitsu...If possible it would be better to avoid that situation, although realistically about 90 to 95% of fights go to the ground...I've trained some jiu-jitsu but I would much rather face someone off the ground because I am not very proficient in it...
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Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 3:40 pm
I understand what the sprawl is ... it is just that very good powerful wrestlers can drive through a sprawl ... just saying ... but overall good counters ...
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Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 5:22 pm
baka_boy1221 I understand what the sprawl is ... it is just that very good powerful wrestlers can drive through a sprawl ... just saying ... but overall good counters ... I guess I've never seen anyone drive through a sprawl, so in that case I would have no choice but to go to the ground...In which my jiu-jitsu training would come in to play... Chin na means "Seize and Control" so it mainly comes from grabs and punches and pushes...I would try to control the situation from stand up rather than the ground...Also for a double leg takedown, simple step patterns could avoid it, unless they are good at sensing movement... If you were to sidestep an attack like that, you could throw them by using their own momentum against them...
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Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 6:18 am
Aki_Taka_Ryuu baka_boy1221 I understand what the sprawl is ... it is just that very good powerful wrestlers can drive through a sprawl ... just saying ... but overall good counters ... If you were to sidestep an attack like that, you could throw them by using their own momentum against them... Relevant. We've been training just such a maneuver against wrestlers in the aikido class I train. Rule number one for defending the takedown is that it is hard to take down someone who isn't where they were when you started. Shuai Jiao, as I understand it, has some notoriously excellent takedown defensive maneuvers and tosses.
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Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 6:29 pm
quiet_way Aki_Taka_Ryuu baka_boy1221 I understand what the sprawl is ... it is just that very good powerful wrestlers can drive through a sprawl ... just saying ... but overall good counters ... If you were to sidestep an attack like that, you could throw them by using their own momentum against them... Relevant. We've been training just such a maneuver against wrestlers in the aikido class I train. Rule number one for defending the takedown is that it is hard to take down someone who isn't where they were when you started. Shuai Jiao, as I understand it, has some notoriously excellent takedown defensive maneuvers and tosses. It is and it is very practical...Not to mention I enjoy throws and it is fun to use someone's own momentum to throw them...
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Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 3:51 pm
baka_boy1221 I understand what the sprawl is ... it is just that very good powerful wrestlers can drive through a sprawl ... just saying ... but overall good counters ... ... Its embarrassing to admit ... But when I was just pure Karate, and not the Jiu Jitsu fanatic I am now ... I use to think the shot counters we trained in would be all it took to stop a takedown attempt ... I was dead wrong, and humbled (and embarrassed) by the serious beating, and pwnage I got ... I've trained Jiu Jitsu, and wrestling since then ... But I still stick to my roots as a striker ...
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Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 3:53 pm
Aki_Taka_Ryuu Sprawl is perfect for someone who drives forward because you push them to the ground with your body weight, so you let gravity do the work... In a real self defense situation, like on the street we teach to use your elbows to strike the spine or back of the head or neck as you kick out your legs, stablizing your base and putting them too far back for someone to reach... Chin na, your goal in that case would be not to be taken to the ground...Only level 5 and 6 do ground work, so I'm guessing it would deal with those types of positions then...(I'm only a level 2/3)...Shuai Jiao, your intent would not be to go down with your opponent, simply to throw them, unless you have trained ground fighting such as wrestling or jiu-jitsu...Ryu Te Kempo Karate, I would say we try not to go down with our opponent too often because we wouldn't know if they have been a wrestler or done jiu-jitsu...If possible it would be better to avoid that situation, although realistically about 90 to 95% of fights go to the ground...I've trained some jiu-jitsu but I would much rather face someone off the ground because I am not very proficient in it... ... I knew a guy who was proficient in Shuai Jiao, but unfortunately we didn't live anywhere near each other so I was never able to try it out ...
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Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 9:59 pm
Sabre809 baka_boy1221 I understand what the sprawl is ... it is just that very good powerful wrestlers can drive through a sprawl ... just saying ... but overall good counters ... ... Its embarrassing to admit ... But when I was just pure Karate, and not the Jiu Jitsu fanatic I am now ... I use to think the shot counters we trained in would be all it took to stop a takedown attempt ... I was dead wrong, and humbled (and embarrassed) by the serious beating, and pwnage I got ... I've trained Jiu Jitsu, and wrestling since then ... But I still stick to my roots as a striker ... I've always been open minded when it comes to martial arts. I was excited to start jiujitsu because I knew it would benefit me if I were ever taken to the ground. Even still, I would prefer to remain on my feet if I were ever in a confrontation, but as I think I stated previously, that line of thinking is unrealistic because most fights end up on the ground. That is why I started Brazilian Jiujitsu. Someone asked me how I would defend against pulling guard. I would use the jiujitsu techniques I know now and work to get back to my feet since I have more experience in stand up combat. I haven't done much Shuai Jiao, only about three months, but it was fun and effective, even against a larger adversary.
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Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:41 am
Aki_Taka_Ryuu Sabre809 baka_boy1221 I understand what the sprawl is ... it is just that very good powerful wrestlers can drive through a sprawl ... just saying ... but overall good counters ... ... Its embarrassing to admit ... But when I was just pure Karate, and not the Jiu Jitsu fanatic I am now ... I use to think the shot counters we trained in would be all it took to stop a takedown attempt ... I was dead wrong, and humbled (and embarrassed) by the serious beating, and pwnage I got ... I've trained Jiu Jitsu, and wrestling since then ... But I still stick to my roots as a striker ... I've always been open minded when it comes to martial arts. I was excited to start jiujitsu because I knew it would benefit me if I were ever taken to the ground. Even still, I would prefer to remain on my feet if I were ever in a confrontation, but as I think I stated previously, that line of thinking is unrealistic because most fights end up on the ground. That is why I started Brazilian Jiujitsu. Someone asked me how I would defend against pulling guard. I would use the jiujitsu techniques I know now and work to get back to my feet since I have more experience in stand up combat. I haven't done much Shuai Jiao, only about three months, but it was fun and effective, even against a larger adversary. Ehh ... I was very young, and stupid ... Growing up on Bruce Lee movies, and The Karate kid trilogy ... I thought that that was all one needed lol ... I was dead wrong ... My eyes probably would've opened sooner if like ... Someone shot for a takedown on Mr. Miyagi, and they rolled for a bit rofl
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