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 Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 11:00 pm
I'm re-posting this from the CoC guild to get a bit more feedback from this topic. I have another one I might ask about later. So I was searching around for info on the East-West Schism (AP Euro summer homework stare ) when I came across a topic that mentioned how sexual-related stuff was actually used in the Bible. And I do have a couple examples. Ezekiel 23:20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses. Song of Solomon 7:3 Your breasts are like two fawns, twins of a gazelle. Song of Solomon 8:10 I am a wall, and my breasts are like towers... These are all actual verses in the Bible. I'm quite certain God is aware of our perverted nations. So WHY are these verses in the Bible? What purpose do they serve if He knew that if I went to some random person and showed them one of these verses, they'd laugh and say "Your God's that messed up?" I know God's creations are holy and all, and I get that there's a message behind each description, but for example, with Song of Solomon 8:10, why couldn't Solomon have found another way for the lover to describe her maturity?
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Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 11:26 pm
>.>
<.<
I believe the Bible to be the Word of God. Meaning that it was influenced by the Holy Spirit. It is a book of prophecy, revelation, and historical records.
However, because God used people to write it, human influence and understanding are in the Bible. This is not to say that the Word of God has flaws. It doesn't. However, humans still wrote it down.
This is Solomon's way of expressing God's creation in his own words. He is under the power of the Holy Spirit, but he is writing them. Similar to the psalms. The Holy Spirit heavily influenced them, but the Holy Spirit Himself did not write them. They were written by people led by the Holy Spirit.
Solomon's word choices are his, not God's. God merely inspired him. Does that make sense? It's late, and I'm not sure I explained adequately.
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Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 11:10 pm
Scarlet_Teardrops Solomon's word choices are his, not God's. God merely inspired him. Does that make sense? It's late, and I'm not sure I explained adequately. The type of love Solomon used to describe God's love for us (and how our love should be for Him) was eros love--the kind of love that should be experienced in a marriage. And while we are wed to Christ, we also get the word "erotic" from eros, and that's definitely what the uninformed/newcomers will feel. I understand that Solomon was inspired by God, but I don't think that God would find complimenting breasts a God-breathed statement at all. It may have been a compliment in that age, but the problem with today's society is that we don't want context, and "what we see is what we get". You'd get the wrong picture of Christianity in your mind if this is the first verse of the Bible you see.
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Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 12:21 am
i don't think it was meant to be taken that way but with this crazy world yeah i get what you mean if some one showed them those verses and nothing else. i think they were trying to make an example and God wanted it to be straight forward.
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Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 9:36 am
marieaskelinton i don't think it was meant to be taken that way but with this crazy world yeah i get what you mean if some one showed them those verses and nothing else. i think they were trying to make an example and God wanted it to be straight forward. Well, the Song of Solomon was supposed to represent the closeness between God and his bride (the church), but it doesn't feel that way.
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Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 4:11 pm
Ikatsui-Karite Manticore marieaskelinton i don't think it was meant to be taken that way but with this crazy world yeah i get what you mean if some one showed them those verses and nothing else. i think they were trying to make an example and God wanted it to be straight forward. Well, the Song of Solomon was supposed to represent the closeness between God and his bride (the church), but it doesn't feel that way. Maybe because we are still teenagers that do not fully grasp the concept of love and/or sex?
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Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Ekeanyanwu Maybe because we are still teenagers that do not fully grasp the concept of love and/or sex? Apart from God, does anyone?
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Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 7:06 am
Ikatsui-Karite Manticore These are all actual verses in the Bible. I'm quite certain God is aware of our perverted nations. So WHY are these verses in the Bible? What purpose do they serve if He knew that if I went to some random person and showed them one of these verses, they'd laugh and say "Your God's that messed up?" I know God's creations are holy and all, and I get that there's a message behind each description, but for example, with Song of Solomon 8:10, why couldn't Solomon have found another way for the lover to describe her maturity?
Now, all I can say is God was pointing out to us how filthy people could get even back then. (If you think our times are bad, it already was before). Plus, we don't really know how God thinks we are not in His level. I'm sure he knows better than we do. We may never understand how He works, how He does things, but all we can do is honor Him and not question His reasons. Isaiah 55:9 "For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways And My thoughts than your thoughts... "So my reactions on the verses: Ezekiel 23:20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses. Song of Solomon 8:10 I am a wall, and my breasts are like towers...
So that ends my rather long post. For now. blaugh
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Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 1:25 pm
krazed_kon Sigh. Yeah it's kinda awkward to find those in the Bible. I even found passages in the old testament were a half brother touched his half sister (2 Samuel 13) and a Levite saving his a** from pervs by giving his concubine as a peace offering, who ended up dead the next day. (Judges 19). And much, much more... If you're talking about Amnon and Tamar, he didn't touch her, he raped her. There's also Lot and the angels in Genesis--instead of letting the perverted men of the city take the angels, he offered his daughters to them instead. krazed_kon Now, all I can say is God was pointing out to us how filthy people could get even back then. (If you think our times are bad, it already was before). Plus, we don't really know how God thinks we are not in His level. I'm sure he knows better than we do. He was, but I don't think most people take it that way. Ironic that people would like to point and stare and laugh at our Bible when they ignore the crap in sex nowadays. krazed_kon We may never understand how He works, how He does things, but all we can do is honor Him and not question His reasons. Isaiah 55:9 "For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways And My thoughts than your thoughts... " True. krazed_kon I read a website regarding this one and it ain't pretty. (I don't even think that's a Christian website though). It's pretty descriptive, and it MUST be read with someone who is mature. (of course, kids are not supposed to read these, not unless their minds are fully prepared for it. Even we get confused with this verse.) Yeah, the Yahoo! Answerers weren't Christian either, they just poked fun at it. I doubt we're supposed to know what it means. krazed_kon This is the standing of a girl when it comes to her interaction with the opposite sex. She is firm in her beliefs and will not be easily swayed or persuaded by any man. She stands on being wholesome and will not let any man just come in and out of her life. (I read this in the daily bread before just paraphrased it...) That's the meaning behind it. Sadly, it's quite hard to see it that way, wouldn't you think? The meaning behind this verse is lost with the eroticism it suggests. My point is, if you had the right resources, verses like these would not bother you. But no one wants resources or context, they want "what I see is what I get".
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Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 1:12 am
Ikatsui-Karite Manticore krazed_kon Sigh. Yeah it's kinda awkward to find those in the Bible. I even found passages in the old testament were a half brother touched his half sister (2 Samuel 13) and a Levite saving his a** from pervs by giving his concubine as a peace offering, who ended up dead the next day. (Judges 19). And much, much more... If you're talking about Amnon and Tamar, he didn't touch her, he raped her. Yeah I know that, I just didn't want to say it that way. My bad. sweatdrop There's also Lot and the angels in Genesis--instead of letting the perverted men of the city take the angels, he offered his daughters to them instead. He completely compromised himself and his beliefs. Sad. sad krazed_kon Now, all I can say is God was pointing out to us how filthy people could get even back then. (If you think our times are bad, it already was before). Plus, we don't really know how God thinks we are not in His level. I'm sure he knows better than we do. He was, but I don't think most people take it that way. Ironic that people would like to point and stare and laugh at our Bible when they ignore the crap in sex nowadays. True. There's too much irony going on around here. stare krazed_kon I read a website regarding this one and it ain't pretty. (I don't even think that's a Christian website though). It's pretty descriptive, and it MUST be read with someone who is mature. (of course, kids are not supposed to read these, not unless their minds are fully prepared for it. Even we get confused with this verse.) Yeah, the Yahoo! Answerers weren't Christian either, they just poked fun at it. I doubt we're supposed to know what it means. Obviously they have nothing better to do in life. It's just sad no one's correcting them or anything and the website is allowing those posts and comments to stay there. Someone could be misled by those. krazed_kon This is the standing of a girl when it comes to her interaction with the opposite sex. She is firm in her beliefs and will not be easily swayed or persuaded by any man. She stands on being wholesome and will not let any man just come in and out of her life. (I read this in the daily bread before just paraphrased it...) That's the meaning behind it. Sadly, it's quite hard to see it that way, wouldn't you think? The meaning behind this verse is lost with the eroticism it suggests. My point is, if you had the right resources, verses like these would not bother you. But no one wants resources or context, they want "what I see is what I get".
I don't mind seeing the words 'breasts' or 'genitals' in the Bible. It just shows how God is so open and unashamed of what he created. Sex is not an issue for that guy up there. xd
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Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 12:04 pm
krazed_kon Welcome to the world of instant gratification and all things superficial. I wonder if there was some way to change this, besides praying.
I don't mind seeing the words 'breasts' or 'genitals' in the Bible. It just shows how God is so open and unashamed of what he created. Sex is not an issue for that guy up there. xd
I also had a godsend of a religion teacher (no pun intended) during middle school who prompted my class to review the Bible first as a work of literature, written by man, then as a religious text. It helped to step back and look at the people as characters with flaws and strengths and put many things into perspective.
I still read like this from time to time, and it makes scenes like those above seem more acceptable, from a literary standpoint, which puts them into context in a literal standpoint. (I may just be wierd, though...it's different for everyone.)
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Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 12:10 am
krazed_kon I don't mind seeing the words 'breasts' or 'genitals' in the Bible. It just shows how God is so open and unashamed of what he created. Sex is not an issue for that guy up there. xd It doesn't bother me much either, but what bothers me is that people like to observe the religious to see anything they don't like. I can see those verses as perversion of the ancient times/maturity of a woman/etc. etc., but someone else will see those verses as mindless sex crap stuffed into a "religious" book. This reason is why I bring up this topic--it doesn't bother God, but there will always be hypocrites who are ready to point accusing fingers and laugh at what's in our books rather than face the crap in their world. Evermore Reality I still read like this from time to time, and it makes scenes like those above seem more acceptable, from a literary standpoint, which puts them into context in a literal standpoint. (I may just be wierd, though...it's different for everyone.) Oh, yes, it is. Given the context, every verse, including these ones, makes perfect sense. But what I'm trying to say is that unfortunately, that's not how society operates--they don't want to "waste" their time with background information. Which is why I asked this question--if God knew this is how the world populace would operate, why didn't He breathe the Scriptures into such a way that would inspire the message He was preaching while avoiding seemingly erotic phrasing?
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Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 8:37 am
Ikatsui-Karite Manticore krazed_kon I don't mind seeing the words 'breasts' or 'genitals' in the Bible. It just shows how God is so open and unashamed of what he created. Sex is not an issue for that guy up there. xd It doesn't bother me much either, but what bothers me is that people like to observe the religious to see anything they don't like. I can see those verses as perversion of the ancient times/maturity of a woman/etc. etc., but someone else will see those verses as mindless sex crap stuffed into a "religious" book. This reason is why I bring up this topic--it doesn't bother God, but there will always be hypocrites who are ready to point accusing fingers and laugh at what's in our books rather than face the crap in their world. Evermore Reality I still read like this from time to time, and it makes scenes like those above seem more acceptable, from a literary standpoint, which puts them into context in a literal standpoint. (I may just be wierd, though...it's different for everyone.) Oh, yes, it is. Given the context, every verse, including these ones, makes perfect sense. But what I'm trying to say is that unfortunately, that's not how society operates--they don't want to "waste" their time with background information. Which is why I asked this question--if God knew this is how the world populace would operate, why didn't He breathe the Scriptures into such a way that would inspire the message He was preaching while avoiding seemingly erotic phrasing?
To Ikatsui-Karite Manticore: That's all those people are good at. They'd rather point, and discriminate us Christians and our Bible than do something better for their lives.
I don't think God would want to make people think He's completely oblivious to the eroticism which sadly is rather rampant in this world. Again, we must not question his reasons, even on writing the Scriptures. (Plus I do not know the answer to the question. sweatdrop ) Let's wait 'til we get to heaven and let's ask Him about it. blaugh
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Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 3:30 pm
krazed_kon To Ikatsui-Karite Manticore: That's all those people are good at. They'd rather point, and discriminate us Christians and our Bible than do something better for their lives. Sadly. Then again, it's fickle human nature--give them something to disagree about and they'll start making cheap-shots at each other. And when you give them something that they all agree about, they'll start wondering if there is more sides to the story. krazed_kon I don't think God would want to make people think He's completely oblivious to the eroticism which sadly is rather rampant in this world. Again, we must not question his reasons, even on writing the Scriptures. (Plus I do not know the answer to the question. sweatdrop ) Let's wait 'til we get to heaven and let's ask Him about it. blaugh I don't think I even remember what the original intent of this topic was anyways, so sure razz
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Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 7:23 am
Ikatsui-Karite Manticore krazed_kon To Ikatsui-Karite Manticore: That's all those people are good at. They'd rather point, and discriminate us Christians and our Bible than do something better for their lives. Sadly. Then again, it's fickle human nature--give them something to disagree about and they'll start making cheap-shots at each other. And when you give them something that they all agree about, they'll start wondering if there is more sides to the story. krazed_kon I don't think God would want to make people think He's completely oblivious to the eroticism which sadly is rather rampant in this world. Again, we must not question his reasons, even on writing the Scriptures. (Plus I do not know the answer to the question. sweatdrop ) Let's wait 'til we get to heaven and let's ask Him about it. blaugh I don't think I even remember what the original intent of this topic was anyways, so sure razz
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