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 Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 9:22 pm
Decided to make a topic as was on so subtly suggested by the guild crew razz
Anyways! This topic is for discussing what the line is between the supernatural and mental illness.
I'm curious as to all your takes on this since you could view these as warring factions, complete opposites. Because when you say you can see magical beings, I'm sure some psychiatrist might have other ideas as to what is actually going on.
As for why this came to my mind, that would be thanks to my most recent Aunt. She has completely gone out of her mind recently; she going into episodes where she claims to be a time traveling angel and all. Of course there are many more details to that... (lots of ranting about the bible and anger at how the world is, attacking her parents when they came to see one of her episodes, cheating on my Uncle [during episodes?]) but I digress. Seems she won't be my Aunt for much longer (doesn't phase me since I've only met her maybe twice).
So, is there a line between what might be supernatural and what might be mental?
TLDR:
Basic questions to discuss: Mental Illness VS Supernatural, Normal Tricks of the Mind VS Supernatural, and/or Supernatural VS Psychiatric.
You know what I'm talking about/getting at, so get to discussing.
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Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:03 pm
Huzzah, a post! ^^ Thank you, Enc.
Lessee... This is something that's crossed my mind more than once. Really, we could all be deluding ourselves whe we mention seeing our wings, astrally projecting, creating psiballs/magickal constructs, what have you.
Then again, we could be really seeing angels.
I guess, in my (entirely scientific xD) opinion, the line lies at the border of the logic. Is it logical that angels exist? Yes. I sincerely doubt that our universe is the only one, and a universe that we call the "astral realm", "heaven", etc could exist and be visible in certain ways is entirely possible. Quantum theory supports the idea of different universes, and there is even a theory that says one of the four fundamental forces of the universe in fact leeches out of ours into a parallel one - I speak of gravity, but that is for another time.
If forces can cross the boundaries, I have no doubts that minds can. Minds are infinitely complex and capable of many, many things.
For some things such as telepathy, empathy, etc - all of the skills we garner that affect the physical world - proof as to their existence is easy enough to come by. Many of us have done something with our gifts and that in itself proves that believing one can learn these skills is not entirely a mental illness.
Buuuuuut.... the line? When they go ranting. Ranting about bringing fire and brimstone down on people, with no proof to its existence. Should God send a messenger, I doubt He would pick a person who'd go off the deep end.
To me, the person is probably on the mental illness side of the line if they just make no damn sense.
/WoT
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Niccolo Salomanos Captain
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Tsume Rokaro Vice Captain
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Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 9:52 pm
Hiii~ *coughs*subtle*coughs* XD Niccolo Salomanos Buuuuuut.... the line? When they go ranting. Ranting about bringing fire and brimstone down on people, with no proof to its existence. Should God send a messenger, I doubt He would pick a person who'd go off the deep end. I think that makes the point I'd have pointed at better than me saying it. At least, on the whole "where is the line" thing. As for the supernatural aspects. I think that it's entirely possibly. I mean, to me, if a large number of people can have the same experiences, or similar ones, it's hard for me to dismiss it as just an illusion. (Going to use this example since I've been doing a paper on this...) Take therians for example. There are a ton of people that experience similar things. Phantom limbs and things like that as well as mindsets and things. Sure, there's a chance that people could be lying, but with a large number of people, I think there is a greater chance of things being real. Same thing with things like psionics and magick. >.> The mentally ill...well, there's the chance that they are most certainly crazy off the deep end. But, there's a thought in my head that, maybe they are aware of something so different from what we see. We could just as easily be in an illusion ourselves. (Matrix, anyone?) I think the mentally ill vs. supernatural brings up more questions for me than answers. @_@
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Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:47 am
Delusion!
People who believe things which they have no reason to believe because it makes them feel better about themselves are delusional.
People who have real insight into events without actually having any experience of the event and no way of being able to know of the event without some sort of supernatural power are Gifted
People who have real insight into events because they are smart and can piece together bits of information from almost nother... are con artists who are duping you into thinking they are psychic
Soo what do we have again kids!
Delusional people!
Psychic people!
Con Artists!
Some delusional people have actual skill because of how magic works. In which case you have to seperat the delusions AKA the OMG this makes me feel like I'm somebody *thumbs up* from the oh ******** oh ******** oh ******** there is this crazy spirit thats pushing itself into my mind because I invited it in
Cause that turns to ----->
Oh YAY its just JESUS hello jesus... your telling me that I should go convert people. Yay jesus and the angels... oh hey angels... I'm an angel TOOOO YAY!!!!
While the spirit which actually may exist isn't god or jesus or anything but is just feeding on this completely open foolish person and their delusional friends. And of Course... these people in order to keep up their delusional state have to peice together all sorts of inconsistent information in order to keep their story strait soo they get to be con artists as well!
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Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:52 am
Whenever I end up thinking about this, one of the conclusions I often come to is that there's no distinction you can use that always seperates those suffering a mental illness and those who genuinely have some gift (if you can really said to be either), so it makes me wonder if they're not one and the same. Perhaps magick, psionics and so on is just a mental illness, a struggling psyche's attempt at putting a system on something that's not really there, but in doing so, makes that system a reality by superimposing it on the psyche itself (hence why the psychocosm so often reflects the patient's microcosm).
Really, the only time I draw the line is how much of an influence it has on the patients' life -- if it gets to the point that "magick" is something that someone lives and dies for, they're probably suffering a mental illness regardless of their ability. I think it's kind of par for the course.
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Posted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 12:45 pm
I have to agree with Mitish on this one. Of course, it could be the number of people who I have met who are Wiccans, Pagans, and such are crazy to some degree. Quote: Perhaps magick, psionics and so on is just a mental illness, a struggling psyche's attempt at putting a system on something that's not really there, but in doing so, makes that system a reality by superimposing it on the psyche itself I don't agree with this though. Magick is a natural force, not some form of a mental illness. However, who is to say that this natural force when manipulated to create psiballs, spells, and whatnot would not have any effect on the being who manipulates it? Since magick doesn't leave a physical mark on the person, maybe by using it it leaves a mark within our pysche, slowly transforming it into something else. Of course I'm only asking question here and proposing random theories. Really, this topic seems to only produce more questions and theories than it does answers.
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Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 6:26 am
Yeah! Some good stuff here.
@fallen witch,
More answers and theories than it does answer? Hehe odd phrasing...
But yes, that is quite an unfortunate outcome of this... it is very hard to place it. Almost really needs to just be judged case by case and even then it'd still be difficult.
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Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 6:40 am
Haha, sorry Encarton. Sometimes my hands type faster than my mind can think.
I think I might have a little more to my theory. I went over some of my memories of some of people I knew before they discovered and welcomed magick into their lives and I even talked to one or two. Before, they were just average people, good grades, had a few after-school activities, very logical and, well, sane. While learning how to control the flow of magick, they started to change slowly. A few reckless decisions at first, nothing much until it then came to the point that they started to display signs of mental illness. Their emotions were out of control, screaming at you one moment and apologising the next. Most of them are now medicated for bi-polar and depression, one became much calmer after giving birth.
These people also didn't take learning how to control magick slowly. They jumped head in, which might mean that by not learning enough control might have lead to their new mental illnesses much quicker. However, it's only a theory, there is always the possibility that the mental illness was already in the process of developing at the same time they discovered magick.
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Niccolo Salomanos Captain
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Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 6:54 am
Hunh.
Well, that does make sense. Toying with the energies that we play with and not knowing what you're doing... Yeah, I can see that having some side-effects.
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