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Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:04 pm
Click hereHow do you lot feel about this? Personally, I think it's ridiculous. Even if you feel it's "oppressive" to wear a niqab, it's just as oppressive to force someone not to wear one. I understand that France is a highly secular country but at the same time, does it honestly matter if someone wears a veil? What are you guys' thoughts on this? I'd be interested to hear what French people's take on this is.
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Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:38 pm
True, they are basically forcing a dogma, but at the same time, full veils make it impossible to see who it is. In that respect, it is a security risk. Last time I heard, I thought they were just going after the full burka and letting the head scarf go...
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Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:46 pm
I suppose it is a bit of a security risk, but still I don't like the idea of it. It's like saying someone can't wear a mask if they want to because it's a security risk. :/
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Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:20 pm
1) That is a Niqab, not a burka.
2) I refuse to go to France for these reasons. I dont know what Muslim stuck a spoon up Sarcozy's a** but this is why I DO NOT plan to visit there...No matter how bad I want to see Euro Disney emo
I'll go to Switzerland or Belgium.
I love secular things. I was even okay with him banning hijab in school. Because keeping PUBLIC schools secular is good. But when he goes after people on the streets, It gets ridiculous.
EDIT:
They call a face veil a radical religious practice? :/ If someone is a radical, they cant really be called religious, IMO. And the niqab is not originally Islamic, it was a cultural thing for desert dwelling women. But religion and culture are so tightly woven that even most Muslims cannot distinguish the difference. Like.. female citizens of Saudi Arabia must wear the Niqab.
But it's not just France, the Niqab (as shown in photo on article) is also banned in Turkey and Egypt. ><
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Call Me Apple Vice Captain
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Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 3:34 am
I think its ridiculous,they should mind their own business.I mean where is the relation between the President of France which runs a country and a "Niqab..",people would understand what am i talking about because its "Simple Common Sense.."
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Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 6:22 am
Head scarves allow the face to be seen, The ones they are talking about, do not. And the article did specify that it was for government buildings and such. True, it is singled at one religion, but at the same time, it is a security risk. I was in the army, you're warned more about men then you are about women, these scarves make it hard to impossible to distinguish between the two.
I don't like the idea of it too well, but they do have a point when they say it's a safety risk.
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Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:14 am
There is the safety risks aspect, of course. It is one of the reasons, but not the only one.
What I'm going to say is not my own opinion. But as I live in France and had many occasions to discuss with friends or people in the street, I might be able to light you up because there are things that you cannot know if you don't live here and that are part of the problem.
Most people won't admit it, but the truth is that many French people are not at ease with French muslims (and muslims who live in France in general). They think muslims are being too ... intrusive and have many claims compared to other communities. Moreover, some muslims in subburbs don't behave well (there are really lots of problems) and because of that, many people think all muslims are like this, even if that's stupid. But try to understand : France isn't a muslim country and there weren't many muslims in France until recently, so French people are not used to see people wearing Niqab. And as most people here consider face veil and such as a symbol of women's submission, they are not pleased to see so many of them. Many old French people don't feel at home anymore. They feel like France is turning into Arabia (that's what they say) and they don't like that. What they think is that it's ok for immigrants to come in France, but they must try to integrate and not try to recreate their country in France. The problem is, many muslims who were born in France don't seem to be willing to integrate. They say they are not French and they say that they are going to "islamize" France. Imagine what French people think when they hear that =S And because muslims are being too demanding, many people here are being scared and started to vote for "Le Front National", the most extremist and dangerous party in France whose goal is to throw all muslims, jewishes and foreigners out of France. And to prevent that, the Government has to calm down people with that kind of measure, because people are getting really irritated and if it continues like this, Le Front National will win the next elections and the situation will become really bad.
Again, I'm not saying all of this is my opinion. I have muslims friends and obviously I have absolutely no problem with them. But I am forced to notice that's what most people here think =S
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Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:29 am
Call Me Apple 2) I refuse to go to France for these reasons. I dont know what Muslim stuck a spoon up Sarcozy's a** but this is why I DO NOT plan to visit there...No matter how bad I want to see Euro Disney emo I'll go to Switzerland or Belgium. Well about Switzerland, I'm afraid they're not more tolerant than French people. There was a referendum a few weeks ago and people were asked whether they accepted minarets or not and they voted for the ban of minaret construction =S
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Call Me Apple Vice Captain
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Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 11:23 am
Etoile Celeste Call Me Apple 2) I refuse to go to France for these reasons. I dont know what Muslim stuck a spoon up Sarcozy's a** but this is why I DO NOT plan to visit there...No matter how bad I want to see Euro Disney emo I'll go to Switzerland or Belgium. Well about Switzerland, I'm afraid they're not more tolerant than French people. There was a referendum a few weeks ago and people were asked whether they accepted minarets or not and they voted for the ban of minaret construction =S Well Minaret is architecture, we dont have many Mosques in America with them. Its not very important. But covering is in the Qur'an and most Muslims follow it. And the way you described the French, reminds me of racist Rednecks where I live. Which says a lot about how socially 'forward' Europe really is.
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Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 11:45 am
I'm not saying it's good, but that's how it is =S There's a real social unrest in France (I say "in France" because I don't know exactly how it is exactly in the other European countries since I don't live there and I think you really have to live there to realize what happens and why). It is racism, but it's a specific racism. I mean that they have nothing against asians, portugueses ... It's only about muslims who live in France. As I said, it's really because of what happens in subburbs. Things would be different without that =S
About the Minaret, I don't think they said "no" because they thought it wasn't pretty. According to what interviewed people said, people there voted "no" because they thought it was some kind of ... extension of Islam in Switzerland. I'm not trying to say people from Switzerland are racists, but obviously it wasn't just an architectural issue. There are racists everywhere, including France, sadly. But hey, you can still go to London and then take a train to Disneyland. Disney is American, after all =3
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Call Me Apple Vice Captain
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Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 3:34 pm
Etoile Celeste I'm not saying it's good, but that's how it is =S There's a real social unrest in France (I say "in France" because I don't know exactly how it is exactly in the other European countries since I don't live there and I think you really have to live there to realize what happens and why). It is racism, but it's a specific racism. I mean that they have nothing against asians, portugueses ... It's only about muslims who live in France. As I said, it's really because of what happens in subburbs. Things would be different without that =S About the Minaret, I don't think they said "no" because they thought it wasn't pretty. According to what interviewed people said, people there voted "no" because they thought it was some kind of ... extension of Islam in Switzerland. I'm not trying to say people from Switzerland are racists, but obviously it wasn't just an architectural issue. There are racists everywhere, including France, sadly. But hey, you can still go to London and then take a train to Disneyland. Disney is American, after all =3 Haha, yeah we (my husband and I) planned to take the Eurostar from London - > Bruxelles then - - > France. xD And thats still the plan really.
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Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 5:19 pm
There's racism everywhere. This isn't going to stop me from going to France because no matter where you go, there's gonna be some group that's "bad". Here in America, Muslims are pretty frowned upon, and as are hispanics and Native Americans, at least in my area. Sarcozy is an a*****e and from what I've heard, most French people aren't particularly fond of him either. I wouldn't want someone judging America based on Bush alone, so I'm not going to judge France based on Sarcozy. However, it's definitely lame.
EDIT: Now Denmark's jumping on the bandwagon, as well.
http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-world/only-three-women-in-denmark-wear-burqa-20100113-m51m.html
Interested to hear what Amanda has to say about that.
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Henneth Annun Vice Captain
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Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 11:37 pm
I understand why some people are concerned, but I don't think that banning the niqab is really the best way to go.
You have two different ideas about what "equality" is, and two different cultures. You're not going to want to "force" integration or "force" people to be equal, especially since one culture's views of equality may differ from the other culture's. Forcing it is only going to cause resentment on both sides. Side A is going to get more defensive and less willing to integrate, and side B is going to react accordingly and there's going to be all sorts of harmful nativist backlash. ><
If a woman doesn't want to wear the niqab but her parents are going to force her to and harass her through ought her adult life for it, then yeah, she shouldn't be forced to. But if she does want to wear it, then go ahead and let her. One person might argue against it and say it makes her submissive, but she might counter and say it prevents her from being objectified by men and actually protects her.
As for the security thing...maybe there should be some extra security protocol made regarding the niqab. A lot of people probably wouldn't like that though and would shout about discrimination, but you know, what needs to be done for the sake of security just needs to be done. It shouldn't need to come to the point where Muslims/people who choose to wear the niqab or related dress (or any group of people) feel or are specifically targeted, but some people just screw it up for everyone else...I wish that didn't happen. ><
Racism is everywhere, and achieving peaceful and mutually respectful relations between two different cultures is no easy task. It's not going to get solved right away, if ever. Sometimes it takes a while, "a while" meaning over a hundred years. Just don't force things to a point where it produces too much friction, and a fire comes after it.
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Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 11:45 pm
Sockers EDIT: Now Denmark's jumping on the bandwagon, as well. http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-world/only-three-women-in-denmark-wear-burqa-20100113-m51m.html Interested to hear what Amanda has to say about that. DENMARK..NOOOOOOOOOOO! gonk Haha, just kidding... O Denamrk, jeg elsker dig alligevel <3I keep up with the news in DK more so than France. And..I'm not a fan of the Burqa, in my eyes, a Burqa is oppressive and over the top because its not religious at all. It's totally cultural and is mainly worn by Taliban ruled regions in Afghanistan and N. Pakistan. And i love to hear about other converts wearing the veil and scarf, Masha Allah.
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Call Me Apple Vice Captain
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Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 1:37 pm
Call Me Apple Sockers EDIT: Now Denmark's jumping on the bandwagon, as well. http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-world/only-three-women-in-denmark-wear-burqa-20100113-m51m.html Interested to hear what Amanda has to say about that. DENMARK..NOOOOOOOOOOO! gonk Haha, just kidding... O Denamrk, jeg elsker dig alligevel <3I keep up with the news in DK more so than France. And..I'm not a fan of the Burqa, in my eyes, a Burqa is oppressive and over the top because its not religious at all. It's totally cultural and is mainly worn by Taliban ruled regions in Afghanistan and N. Pakistan. And i love to hear about other converts wearing the veil and scarf, Masha Allah. I really don't know much about the cultural differences between a niqab/burqa/etc. Can you fill me in on that?
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