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 Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:27 am
I was curious as to what you guys thought about fashion sense. Is it something that'll be abandoned altogether? I mean, as a gay man, I like to wear... well... tight, fit, and smooth sexy clothes. So, I was wondering if this would be something that'd be tossed out in a commie world. Altogether, of course, it's a small loss, but expressing your sexuality in speech, act, and dress are all equally important to me.
Entertainment as for television shows, radio, music, satellite broadcasting, interwebs, movie industry, and the like. Whats to happen with this? Will we continue to employ people but have them on a regulated pay scale vice the current rediculous one where people make astronomical wages for no REAL reason? I mean, it isn't necessary per se, but let's be honest, a world without movies, acting, and entertainment is... ******** dull. I wouldn't mind seeing halo take a nose dive cuz it sucks, but still I love L4D <3
Amusement, such as parks, tourism, and the like. This is a huge part of business for capitalism, of course, however, couldn't be a very important part of life, as well? I go to "disney" or "universal" like once every 4-5 years, but still. It attracts people in droves. Is this just because of capitalist's nature or is it because humans like to be amused? I personally think it's important.
All these together, when reading through some of Marx and Engel's work, kind of rose a flag with me. I mean, while we can all survive without these things, they are pretty huge parts of our society. To say goodbye to all of this would usher in a societal depression, a revolution coupled with no source of income, and a chaotic almost anarchial enviornment for all involved.
Opinions? I wasn't sure if this stuff would get covered under my other thread, so I posted this one. (Kinda devolved into Mods arguing with Seraph rather than explaining things to me >.>)
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Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 5:06 am
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Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:08 am
Well I think all that stuff is useless capitalist garbage anyways, so I wouldn't miss it one bit.
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Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:26 pm
Some people are natural born artists and enterntainers, why not allow them to use that as their contribution to society to keep everyone in a bright and happy mood.
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Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 1:24 pm
Zed Millar I was curious as to what you guys thought about fashion sense. Is it something that'll be abandoned altogether? I mean, as a gay man, I like to wear... well... tight, fit, and smooth sexy clothes. So, I was wondering if this would be something that'd be tossed out in a commie world. Altogether, of course, it's a small loss, but expressing your sexuality in speech, act, and dress are all equally important to me. Entertainment as for television shows, radio, music, satellite broadcasting, interwebs, movie industry, and the like. Whats to happen with this? Will we continue to employ people but have them on a regulated pay scale vice the current rediculous one where people make astronomical wages for no REAL reason? I mean, it isn't necessary per se, but let's be honest, a world without movies, acting, and entertainment is... ******** dull. I wouldn't mind seeing halo take a nose dive cuz it sucks, but still I love L4D <3 Amusement, such as parks, tourism, and the like. This is a huge part of business for capitalism, of course, however, couldn't be a very important part of life, as well? I go to "disney" or "universal" like once every 4-5 years, but still. It attracts people in droves. Is this just because of capitalist's nature or is it because humans like to be amused? I personally think it's important. All these together, when reading through some of Marx and Engel's work, kind of rose a flag with me. I mean, while we can all survive without these things, they are pretty huge parts of our society. To say goodbye to all of this would usher in a societal depression, a revolution coupled with no source of income, and a chaotic almost anarchial enviornment for all involved. Opinions? I wasn't sure if this stuff would get covered under my other thread, so I posted this one. (Kinda devolved into Mods arguing with Seraph rather than explaining things to me >.>) I feel strongly that self expression should be adimantly protected in a Communist society. If you exstigush the flame of expression, you kill a persons soul. And if a Communist government banned such expression. They will no longer be seen as liberators, just the next oppressors. As for amusment park, keep those as well! Fun is a human need. without it we are just grumpy cogs in a faceless machine. Recreation was promoted in the Soviet Union as well. Playgrounds and small amusment parks were built by the government for no reason other than for the entertainment of the young. And several resort hotels were built for workers to go on holiday. I recently saw an old Soviet film that toured one such place. They were very nice, but not over the top. Movies, television, and radio, should be considered just as important to a worker's happiness as his basic needs are. "A happy worker is a productive worker." All work and no play make johnny a dull boy... All work and no play make johnny a dull boy... All work and no play make johnny a dull boy...
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Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 4:21 pm
'Feminists and Feds in Anti-Porn Frenzy' W&R #20 As marxists, we are trying to achieve a classless society based on material plenty in which people have the freedom (and the leisure) to figure out what they really want to do, sexually and otherwise. If people ask "Will there be leather bars under socialism?" our answer must be that it is really not up to us.... We can only presume that, with the dissolution of the oppressive nuclear family and the artificial restraints and frustrations which are imposed on human expression, sexuality will become more free, more open, more tolerant, more rich and more diverse.
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Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 5:27 pm
Them jeans be popping. Feminists and Feds in Anti-Porn Frenzy' W&R #20 As marxists, we are trying to achieve a classless society based on material plenty in which people have the freedom (and the leisure) to figure out what they really want to do, sexually and otherwise. If people ask "Will there be leather bars under socialism?" our answer must be that it is really not up to us.... We can only presume that, with the dissolution of the oppressive nuclear family and the artificial restraints and frustrations which are imposed on human expression, sexuality will become more free, more open, more tolerant, more rich and more diverse. That just seemed like a funny way of saying "probably not, but I don't want to have to say that and make communism look potentially bad". People proposing change in society saying the change isn't really up to them... I don't get it.
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Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:44 pm
Zed Millar Them jeans be popping. Feminists and Feds in Anti-Porn Frenzy' W&R #20 As marxists, we are trying to achieve a classless society based on material plenty in which people have the freedom (and the leisure) to figure out what they really want to do, sexually and otherwise. If people ask "Will there be leather bars under socialism?" our answer must be that it is really not up to us.... We can only presume that, with the dissolution of the oppressive nuclear family and the artificial restraints and frustrations which are imposed on human expression, sexuality will become more free, more open, more tolerant, more rich and more diverse. That just seemed like a funny way of saying "probably not, but I don't want to have to say that and make communism look potentially bad". People proposing change in society saying the change isn't really up to them... I don't get it. Sorry, that 'us' should have been italicised. What it is saying is that that is a question for future generations to decide, you know, the people who will actually be living in socialism. The most I can say now without getting all utopian and planning s**t is this: Do I think there will be leather bars? I doubt there will be many, compared to now. Why? Because with the freer sexual relations and the freer understanding, and the wider acceptance for things that are currently considered abnormal... well, there probably won't be need for too many of them. This, however, is only an expectation, and isn't me saying 'we will institute a quota of how many are allowed!' I'm merely saying that I think that things will be so open that various kinks will be practised more openly. If sexual minorities feel the need for 'special places,' though, the workers' state will try to accommodate that in every way possible.
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Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 4:10 pm
Gracchvs Robespierre Zed Millar Them jeans be popping. Feminists and Feds in Anti-Porn Frenzy' W&R #20 As marxists, we are trying to achieve a classless society based on material plenty in which people have the freedom (and the leisure) to figure out what they really want to do, sexually and otherwise. If people ask "Will there be leather bars under socialism?" our answer must be that it is really not up to us.... We can only presume that, with the dissolution of the oppressive nuclear family and the artificial restraints and frustrations which are imposed on human expression, sexuality will become more free, more open, more tolerant, more rich and more diverse. That just seemed like a funny way of saying "probably not, but I don't want to have to say that and make communism look potentially bad". People proposing change in society saying the change isn't really up to them... I don't get it. Sorry, that 'us' should have been italicised. What it is saying is that that is a question for future generations to decide, you know, the people who will actually be living in socialism. The most I can say now without getting all utopian and planning s**t is this: Do I think there will be leather bars? I doubt there will be many, compared to now. Why? Because with the freer sexual relations and the freer understanding, and the wider acceptance for things that are currently considered abnormal... well, there probably won't be need for too many of them. This, however, is only an expectation, and isn't me saying 'we will institute a quota of how many are allowed!' I'm merely saying that I think that things will be so open that various kinks will be practised more openly. If sexual minorities feel the need for 'special places,' though, the workers' state will try to accommodate that in every way possible. Ok, that makes sense. I can see how gay/straight bars may be altogether absorbed and society would create just "bars" where being hit-on/not will encompass the full scale of sxuality. Thats pretty interesting, I'd have liked to live in such a time because I think, fundamentally, all humans are bisexual. That'd be a great way to see if it were true.
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Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 4:06 pm
Well I don't see Bars as so much "hey lets make a bar juts for gays" it's more or less assumed that a "gay" bar exists because straight people won't frequent there. Every "bar" tends to find a certain niche and cater to that group like most small service industry. A leather bar exists to cater to that group and because it gains a reputation.
I have to agree with Roy on this one, art, expression, etc won't be restricted per se. But I would also like to note that the dictatorship of the proletariat will have need of artists, because they are quite the powerful tool for propaganda. Or at least the vanguard will utilize them.
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Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 11:13 pm
Gallenger Well I don't see Bars as so much "hey lets make a bar juts for gays" it's more or less assumed that a "gay" bar exists because straight people won't frequent there. Every "bar" tends to find a certain niche and cater to that group like most small service industry. A leather bar exists to cater to that group and because it gains a reputation. I have to agree with Roy on this one, art, expression, etc won't be restricted per se. But I would also like to note that the dictatorship of the proletariat will have need of artists, because they are quite the powerful tool for propaganda. Or at least the vanguard will utilize them.  The will of the many...
Indeed, without art, speakers, revolutionaries, soldiers, and men/women of all kinds and talents, the proleteriat would have a boring, if only unsuccessful/difficult yet, revolution and rise to dictatorship.
subjugated by the cruelty of the few.
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Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 11:22 pm
This thread is boring....
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Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 11:25 pm
The will of the many...The will of the many...
Yeah... I mostly only made it because my last thread was nothing but you, Gracchvs and whomever else arguing with divine seraph about things I wasn't really talking or wanting to know about. Some of it was useful but... o.o;;
I guess a more interesting topic, how do you think this election will turn out?
subjugated by the cruelty of the few.
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Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 9:47 am
In my system, all things would continue, more or less, as they are now. Clothing would not become only one or two styles, but would be created as the world saw need and want. Fashion would still exist, though the general sense of economic power that Abecrombie and such holds would be destroyed. Basically, the people, being in control, would produce what they wanted to be produced.
As for entertainment, it's the same idea- It's service to society, and is a viable job. As such, there will always be those who have fun or interesting ideas they want to spread through the world. If they have the skill for it, they will do so and make television shows, act in movies, craft jokes and program video games. The only difference is that there is no monetary gain, especially at the expense of slave laborers in China or Indonesia.
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Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 12:35 am
Gallenger Well I don't see Bars as so much "hey lets make a bar juts for gays" it's more or less assumed that a "gay" bar exists because straight people won't frequent there. Every "bar" tends to find a certain niche and cater to that group like most small service industry. A leather bar exists to cater to that group and because it gains a reputation. I have to agree with Roy on this one, art, expression, etc won't be restricted per se. But I would also like to note that the dictatorship of the proletariat will have need of artists, because they are quite the powerful tool for propaganda. Or at least the vanguard will utilize them. This is just silly though. You are viewing the future society through the social mores of the current society. As sexuality becomes more open and free, a number of things will happen: 1: The lines between hetero, bi, and homosexuality will become increasingly blured. 2: Acceptance and integration between the sexualities will increase. 3: Sexuality will become increasingly open and a normal part of society. As such, I doubt there will be much differentiation between gay and straight and the various kinks and s**t. There will be places that cater to certain things out of material necessity (can't offer every aspect of every kink in ever place, so some, I assume, will focus on more 'hard' aspects), but that's really all I see, as far as the early periods are conserned... After that, well... I don't want to imagine what that far in the future will be like. We can nly predict so much.
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