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Formerly called the NCS, this is a place for communists and socialists to talk about communism and socialism. 

Tags: Marxism, Communism, Socialism, Political, Left 

Reply MCS: Marxism, Communism, Socialism
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divineseraph

PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:05 pm


I'm sick of beurocracy. My platform and slogan is going to be "Let's get s**t done."

Unfortunately, I am 20. I will run when I am 25, which will also be illegal, but I will use that to empower me. We would really sit here for another 10 years so these dumb ******** in suits can sit on their asses covering themselves in red tape while nothing gets done, for the sake of some beurocratic law? Come on people, let's get s**t done.

I will campaign with fliers and posters I make myself (I am an artist and have a slight backing in graphic design) with large-scale images that is dominated on the top with block text that says "WE HAVE PROBLEMS ********", with the words stacked vertically, and then there will be a smaller-cased explanation of a major problem I see in the world- Such as the adoption system, animal abuse, warmongering and the pay gap.

I will speak plainly, I will get angry, I will curse and I will wear street clothes- Not because I'm calculating how to win an audience, but because that what I wear- I am one of the people. We should vote for ourselves, not people born into another league. The media will hate me.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 11:31 pm


divineseraph
I'm sick of beurocracy. My platform and slogan is going to be "Let's get s**t done."

Unfortunately, I am 20. I will run when I am 25, which will also be illegal, but I will use that to empower me. We would really sit here for another 10 years so these dumb ******** in suits can sit on their asses covering themselves in red tape while nothing gets done, for the sake of some beurocratic law? Come on people, let's get s**t done.

I will campaign with fliers and posters I make myself (I am an artist and have a slight backing in graphic design) with large-scale images that is dominated on the top with block text that says "WE HAVE PROBLEMS ********", with the words stacked vertically, and then there will be a smaller-cased explanation of a major problem I see in the world- Such as the adoption system, animal abuse, warmongering and the pay gap.

I will speak plainly, I will get angry, I will curse and I will wear street clothes- Not because I'm calculating how to win an audience, but because that what I wear- I am one of the people. We should vote for ourselves, not people born into another league. The media will hate me.



.....And you will fail, but if by some chance you are successful you will be enlisted into care taking for the capitalist state. In the words of immortal tech

"We might have a black president but he's useless because he does not control the economy stupid!"

Intermundia


divineseraph

PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 6:56 am


I don't think I'll magically turn us communist overnight. I think I'll make people angry and make people want to drop the capitalist system. I know the president is a figurehead, but it's better than nothing- It's better than yelling at people on the subway through a microphone.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:46 pm


divineseraph
I don't think I'll magically turn us communist overnight. I think I'll make people angry and make people want to drop the capitalist system. I know the president is a figurehead, but it's better than nothing- It's better than yelling at people on the subway through a microphone.


"The executive of the modern representative state is but a committee for managing the common affairs of the bourgeoisie."
-The communist Manifesto

With that stated you won't get any media endorsements because the bourgeoisie won't be on your side and if the last election in the United States is an indication, you need media endorsement to be a president.

Besides elections are just competing groups of the bourgeoisie trying to control the state.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investment_theory_of_party_competition

You won't be elected.

And before you try this bullshit because I quoted Marx and used Ferguson as a reference you can shut it.

divineseraph
I don't give a damn about either of them, or Marx for that matter. We have to think for ourselves, and it's a slippery slope to crazy-town if you try to take one man's ideas and emulate ALL of them with rigidity and kabbalah- Look at Christianity. Jesus is probably not very pleased with what people did with his message.

I say pick out ideas, but don't idolize anyone entirely and hang on their coatsleeves saying "Marx said! Marx said! Marx said!" when you could be thinking of your own solutions to problems, even if you come to the same conclusion.


Just because Rob posts a post that says "On a serious note" and wants us to compare Stalin and Trotsky you think we're inculcating ourselves to Marx in the same manner as religion claiming that the users of this guild don't come to their own conclusions is bullshit because I've seen some really great topics be discussed.

I agree that people can not just blindly follow whatever ideology they subscribe to however, I think most people here already understand that or otherwise they wouldn't be a part of this guild, they'd probably be trying to chase down money or buy stocks or something and your inability to understand that on this guild we all have our own opinions is insulting.

Syntax1020


Intermundia

PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 4:38 pm


Syntax450
divineseraph
I don't think I'll magically turn us communist overnight. I think I'll make people angry and make people want to drop the capitalist system. I know the president is a figurehead, but it's better than nothing- It's better than yelling at people on the subway through a microphone.


"The executive of the modern representative state is but a committee for managing the common affairs of the bourgeoisie."
-The communist Manifesto

With that stated you won't get any media endorsements because the bourgeoisie won't be on your side and if the last election in the United States is an indication, you need media endorsement to be a president.

Besides elections are just competing groups of the bourgeoisie trying to control the state.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investment_theory_of_party_competition

You won't be elected.

And before you try this bullshit because I quoted Marx and used Ferguson as a reference you can shut it.

divineseraph
I don't give a damn about either of them, or Marx for that matter. We have to think for ourselves, and it's a slippery slope to crazy-town if you try to take one man's ideas and emulate ALL of them with rigidity and kabbalah- Look at Christianity. Jesus is probably not very pleased with what people did with his message.

I say pick out ideas, but don't idolize anyone entirely and hang on their coatsleeves saying "Marx said! Marx said! Marx said!" when you could be thinking of your own solutions to problems, even if you come to the same conclusion.


Just because Rob posts a post that says "On a serious note" and wants us to compare Stalin and Trotsky you think we're inculcating ourselves to Marx in the same manner as religion claiming that the users of this guild don't come to their own conclusions is bullshit because I've seen some really great topics be discussed.



No need for hostility Syn. However you do make a point. Divine wont be elected or even supported for the mere fact that he will not garner financial support. Even if he was he would merely be recruited into care taking of the capitalist state. Socialism was never achieve through peaceful means and it never will be.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 7:21 pm


When did I say I would pander or become a socialist or try to allocate resources?

I KNOW the media will hate me. I KNOW it's a media game. And I think that a lot of people understand that. I want to talk openly and easily with people, get people angry, and get people to start to change. I think people will respect my candor and brashness, they are used to politicians who sugar coat and sweet talk, and I will be a refreshing jolt of reality.

As president I would sign bills to stop the war industry, to limit the powers of the rich and use our time and resources to make food and shelter for poor countries, with no strings attached. I would speak loudly against wrongs and try to convince the people to drop their monetary system- A president is a figurehead. A figurehead is a voice many people hear. A voice many people hear is more likely to be heard.

In the end, it's the people's votes. Rather, it's the electoral vote. But, if the people vote for me and the douchebag who will take the ruling class' balls on his chin wins while I have the most votes, I can use that again to keep people angry and start a revolution. Some support for our common goal would be nice.

divineseraph


Syntax1020

PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 7:44 pm


divineseraph
When did I say I would pander or become a socialist or try to allocate resources?

I KNOW the media will hate me. I KNOW it's a media game. And I think that a lot of people understand that. I want to talk openly and easily with people, get people angry, and get people to start to change. I think people will respect my candor and brashness, they are used to politicians who sugar coat and sweet talk, and I will be a refreshing jolt of reality.

As president I would sign bills to stop the war industry, to limit the powers of the rich and use our time and resources to make food and shelter for poor countries, with no strings attached. I would speak loudly against wrongs and try to convince the people to drop their monetary system- A president is a figurehead. A figurehead is a voice many people hear. A voice many people hear is more likely to be heard.

In the end, it's the people's votes. Rather, it's the electoral vote. But, if the people vote for me and the douchebag who will take the ruling class' balls on his chin wins while I have the most votes, I can use that again to keep people angry and start a revolution. Some support for our common goal would be nice.


You state that:
divineseraph
In the end, it's the people's votes.


How correct you are. The problem is as Ferguson States in his Investment Theory of Party Competition (I posted it for you to read it) that The high costs of political participation for average voters leads to the buying of elections by businesses. This is done through contributions, as well as direct and indirect influence from corporations, law firms and the commercial media. The theory argues that in the absence of an organized populace and labor movement, power passes by default to blocs of investors, and thus, the candidate with the most financial backing always wins.

The key word is labor movement. Do you think that you, while trying to run for a bourgeoisie controlled government executive position, will be able to create so much support, even without financial backing, to cause people to disregard the media even though you
divineseraph
KNOW it's a media game
which will not be on your side, and you hope to do this only through your
divineseraph
candor and brashness
. Do you really believe that you can cause people to ignore all other forms of information and listen to you alone even though they have been exposed to bourgeois media control and look to it for most of their information.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 9:30 pm


I'd totally vote for you, Seraph.
BTW, are you psychic? We have similar policies, dream avatars (yours has actually been achieved), and USERNAMES!
I'm in highschool, so I can't run. However, if an ADULT (such as yourself) with a like mind (such as yourself) comes into the picture than just maybe....

sephy_0_great1


Intermundia

PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 9:38 pm


sephy_0_great1
I'd totally vote for you, Seraph.
BTW, are you psychic? We have similar policies, dream avatars (yours has actually been achieved), and USERNAMES!
I'm in highschool, so I can't run. However, if an ADULT (such as yourself) with a like mind (such as yourself) comes into the picture than just maybe....


Okay see, Divine this is why I cant let this pass. because people like our friend here are led to believe reformism actually ******** works.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:21 am


Syntax450
divineseraph
When did I say I would pander or become a socialist or try to allocate resources?

I KNOW the media will hate me. I KNOW it's a media game. And I think that a lot of people understand that. I want to talk openly and easily with people, get people angry, and get people to start to change. I think people will respect my candor and brashness, they are used to politicians who sugar coat and sweet talk, and I will be a refreshing jolt of reality.

As president I would sign bills to stop the war industry, to limit the powers of the rich and use our time and resources to make food and shelter for poor countries, with no strings attached. I would speak loudly against wrongs and try to convince the people to drop their monetary system- A president is a figurehead. A figurehead is a voice many people hear. A voice many people hear is more likely to be heard.

In the end, it's the people's votes. Rather, it's the electoral vote. But, if the people vote for me and the douchebag who will take the ruling class' balls on his chin wins while I have the most votes, I can use that again to keep people angry and start a revolution. Some support for our common goal would be nice.


You state that:
divineseraph
In the end, it's the people's votes.


How correct you are. The problem is as Ferguson States in his Investment Theory of Party Competition (I posted it for you to read it) that The high costs of political participation for average voters leads to the buying of elections by businesses. This is done through contributions, as well as direct and indirect influence from corporations, law firms and the commercial media. The theory argues that in the absence of an organized populace and labor movement, power passes by default to blocs of investors, and thus, the candidate with the most financial backing always wins.

The key word is labor movement. Do you think that you, while trying to run for a bourgeoisie controlled government executive position, will be able to create so much support, even without financial backing, to cause people to disregard the media even though you
divineseraph
KNOW it's a media game
which will not be on your side, and you hope to do this only through your
divineseraph
candor and brashness
. Do you really believe that you can cause people to ignore all other forms of information and listen to you alone even though they have been exposed to bourgeois media control and look to it for most of their information.


I have hope, I have anger, and I have friends willing to help. Drop some posters in New York City to the tune of several thousand and people will notice- Viral campaigning is a possibility. Geurilla campaigning is a possibility. Even if I get negative responses from the media, it furthers my case, which is why I assume that they will either let me go unhindered or they will run smear campaigns which I will use to make people angry.

I'm not really sure what funding has to do with it- Obviously, buying votes is likely and getting ad-time gets your face known. But that's what I'm fighting against and what I will get people to rally with me against. I want to get people to realize that the current elections are a game and a joke, and that we can get somone who will actually do s**t in the white house. As a note, I don't plan to actually stay in the white house if I become president. There's much more important s**t to do than sit in my office looking pretty for cameras.

Also, I will reveal the secrets of area 51 with the laypeople. It's about time we stop hiding from ourselves.

divineseraph


divineseraph

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:25 am


Comrade Rob
sephy_0_great1
I'd totally vote for you, Seraph.
BTW, are you psychic? We have similar policies, dream avatars (yours has actually been achieved), and USERNAMES!
I'm in highschool, so I can't run. However, if an ADULT (such as yourself) with a like mind (such as yourself) comes into the picture than just maybe....


Okay see, Divine this is why I cant let this pass. because people like our friend here are led to believe reformism actually ******** works.


Again, I don't think it will do everything overnight. I want to actually TRY and get important things done- I want to stop focusing on the economy bullshit and work on effective laws- Legalizing marijuana, working to end terrorism in a way that isn't "We'll bomb the s**t out of you so you're all dead" or "We'll bomb the s**t out of your enemies so you like us" working to increase worker's rights, reforming the adoption situation.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 11:21 am


divineseraph
Comrade Rob
sephy_0_great1
I'd totally vote for you, Seraph.
BTW, are you psychic? We have similar policies, dream avatars (yours has actually been achieved), and USERNAMES!
I'm in highschool, so I can't run. However, if an ADULT (such as yourself) with a like mind (such as yourself) comes into the picture than just maybe....


Okay see, Divine this is why I cant let this pass. because people like our friend here are led to believe reformism actually ******** works.


Again, I don't think it will do everything overnight. I want to actually TRY and get important things done- I want to stop focusing on the economy bullshit and work on effective laws- Legalizing marijuana, working to end terrorism in a way that isn't "We'll bomb the s**t out of you so you're all dead" or "We'll bomb the s**t out of your enemies so you like us" working to increase worker's rights, reforming the adoption situation.



Okay but increasing workers rights under the same system that oppresses us doesn't fix the problem. That's like trying to put a ******** dress on a dog and pass it of as a person. The economy is the trash that needs to be disposed. The political structure under that system serves one purpose and one purpose only, and that is to protect the interests of the ruling class. Making concessions for us as workers is not going to make the revolution easier, its actually going to make it harder. I have a friend who thinks workers aren't exploited because he gets ******** dental benefits! So do you honestly think that winning us victories within capitalism will serve us some great victory as a whole? If so you are sadly ******** mistaken.

Intermundia


divineseraph

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 2:04 pm


Comrade Rob
divineseraph
Comrade Rob
sephy_0_great1
I'd totally vote for you, Seraph.
BTW, are you psychic? We have similar policies, dream avatars (yours has actually been achieved), and USERNAMES!
I'm in highschool, so I can't run. However, if an ADULT (such as yourself) with a like mind (such as yourself) comes into the picture than just maybe....


Okay see, Divine this is why I cant let this pass. because people like our friend here are led to believe reformism actually ******** works.


Again, I don't think it will do everything overnight. I want to actually TRY and get important things done- I want to stop focusing on the economy bullshit and work on effective laws- Legalizing marijuana, working to end terrorism in a way that isn't "We'll bomb the s**t out of you so you're all dead" or "We'll bomb the s**t out of your enemies so you like us" working to increase worker's rights, reforming the adoption situation.



Okay but increasing workers rights under the same system that oppresses us doesn't fix the problem. That's like trying to put a ******** dress on a dog and pass it of as a person. The economy is the trash that needs to be disposed. The political structure under that system serves one purpose and one purpose only, and that is to protect the interests of the ruling class. Making concessions for us as workers is not going to make the revolution easier, its actually going to make it harder. I have a friend who thinks workers aren't exploited because he gets ******** dental benefits! So do you honestly think that winning us victories within capitalism will serve us some great victory as a whole? If so you are sadly ******** mistaken.


you're not following. I will get people angry, and get people thinking. I will get them to not want to be slaves anymore- The problem is that many people are content with the system because they are taught from birth that it is the best and only way, to have a ruling class controling the world.

Your friend is exactly what I mean. If I get a voice that reaches across the country and the world, then I can start to change minds. I will work, within the legal confines of the system, to slowly take power from the rich and give it to the poor. And then, we can change over to communism, when people start to see that it is the right way to go. What we need is a voice. What we need is action and change. Real change, not Obama half-hearted change.

We need people who like capitalism to see that there are better ways. And not by going around assassinating the rich, we need to do it through demonstration- Actual demonstration, inb4 "protestin is no good lawl"

The workers, as I'm sure you know, are like columns holding up the ruling class. We far outnumber the working class, but they hold us put with their weight. So, what we need to do, instead of trying to push them up and off of us, is to simply step aside- If enough columns leave, the whole thing collapses. No blood spilled, we simply remove the weight on our shoulder by not supporting them anymore. We will not work in their factories, we will not accept their pay, we will not buy from their stores- Their money will be kindling. Once they have no power, we can reclaim the means of production and begin to work again, as equals.

We must win the hearts and minds of the people in order to successfully convert to Communism.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 3:56 pm


divineseraph
Drop some posters in New York City to the tune of several thousand and people will notice- Viral campaigning is a possibility. Geurilla campaigning is a possibility.


Wow. You really must be extremely pretentious and ignorant of all the work that has been done and continues to be done by communists around the world to think that by just putting up posters you will be able to cause people to reject the capitalist system. Also:

divineseraph
We must win the hearts and minds of the people in order to successfully convert to Communism.


If you think the hearts and minds of the proletariat are so cheap that they can be changed by posters then I really wonder what your attitude of the proletarian's hearts and minds are?

divineseraph
I want to get people to realize that the current elections are a game and a joke, and that we can get somone who will actually do s**t in the white house. As a note, I don't plan to actually stay in the white house if I become president. There's much more important s**t to do than sit in my office looking pretty for cameras.


So you want people to realize that presidential elections are of no value but to still elect you to the value-less position, but you're going to quit it so you can do more important "s**t".

divineseraph
We must win the hearts and minds of the people in order to successfully convert to Communism.


Lastly, you don't convert to communism. You accept communist ideas or you generally support communism but you don't convert to it like a religion. However you must think that we all just cling to the words of Marx because you wrote this in the topic "on a serious note":

divineseraph
I don't give a damn about either of them, or Marx for that matter. We have to think for ourselves, and it's a slippery slope to crazy-town if you try to take one man's ideas and emulate ALL of them with rigidity and kabbalah- Look at Christianity. Jesus is probably not very pleased with what people did with his message.

I say pick out ideas, but don't idolize anyone entirely and hang on their coatsleeves saying "Marx said! Marx said! Marx said!" when you could be thinking of your own solutions to problems, even if you come to the same conclusion.


I have not been a part of this guild very long and have not made many meaningful posts but I would never imply that the members of this guild don't have their own opinions. Considering the amount of argument you've caused in the past two days you have no right to think the users of this guild don't have their own opinions.

Syntax1020


divineseraph

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:22 pm


Syntax450
divineseraph
Drop some posters in New York City to the tune of several thousand and people will notice- Viral campaigning is a possibility. Geurilla campaigning is a possibility.


Wow. You really must be extremely pretentious and ignorant of all the work that has been done and continues to be done by communists around the world to think that by just putting up posters you will be able to cause people to reject the capitalist system. Also:

divineseraph
We must win the hearts and minds of the people in order to successfully convert to Communism.


If you think the hearts and minds of the proletariat are so cheap that they can be changed by posters then I really wonder what your attitude of the proletarian's hearts and minds are?

divineseraph
I want to get people to realize that the current elections are a game and a joke, and that we can get somone who will actually do s**t in the white house. As a note, I don't plan to actually stay in the white house if I become president. There's much more important s**t to do than sit in my office looking pretty for cameras.


So you want people to realize that presidential elections are of no value but to still elect you to the value-less position, but you're going to quit it so you can do more important "s**t".

divineseraph
We must win the hearts and minds of the people in order to successfully convert to Communism.


Lastly, you don't convert to communism. You accept communist ideas or you generally support communism but you don't convert to it like a religion. However you must think that we all just cling to the words of Marx because you wrote this in the topic "on a serious note":

divineseraph
I don't give a damn about either of them, or Marx for that matter. We have to think for ourselves, and it's a slippery slope to crazy-town if you try to take one man's ideas and emulate ALL of them with rigidity and kabbalah- Look at Christianity. Jesus is probably not very pleased with what people did with his message.

I say pick out ideas, but don't idolize anyone entirely and hang on their coatsleeves saying "Marx said! Marx said! Marx said!" when you could be thinking of your own solutions to problems, even if you come to the same conclusion.


I have not been a part of this guild very long and have not made many meaningful posts but I would never imply that the members of this guild don't have their own opinions. Considering the amount of argument you've caused in the past two days you have no right to think the users of this guild don't have their own opinions.


You with your slippery slopes... I'll begin by saying that I don't think that the world will be instantly spontaneously changed- I've said that at least three times already, and now I'm saying it again. Posters, speeches, talks, maybe even a bit of vandalism and rioting. It's not ABOUT becoming president for the power, it's about the act of defiance in doing it- Saying "You know what, a layperson can be president too" and "You know what- ******** this beurocratic bullshit." If we can get to this stage, then we've opened eyes. If eyes are opened, then they can better see our message.

And yes. Exactly. That's the point- It is valueless. It would be like getting the entire country to put down Homer Simpson or Rage Against The Machine on the ballots, but I am tangible and can speak and help unify the people. I don't WANT power, I don't WANT to control or lead. I want to do my part to make this world less ******** up. I never said I would quit speaking or being a figurehead, but I will not be an authority, and I will not take part in petty beurocracy and ceremony. We have more important things to do.

Oh, come on. Really? We have to convert our economic system, doofus. I didn't mean baptising folks into Communism. Christ. I didn't say that- You're really bad with slippery slopes, you know that?- I never pointed fingers or said "you do this and are wrong because of it"- I said that those who do so are wrong and cited why.
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MCS: Marxism, Communism, Socialism

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