Welcome to Gaia! ::

The Marxist, Communist, and Socialist Guild

Back to Guilds

Formerly called the NCS, this is a place for communists and socialists to talk about communism and socialism. 

Tags: Marxism, Communism, Socialism, Political, Left 

Reply MCS: Marxism, Communism, Socialism
Unable to work a.k.a 'help Kotka with her essay'

Quick Reply

Enter both words below, separated by a space:

Can't read the text? Click here

Submit

Comrade Kotka

Shirtless Fatcat

PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 10:23 pm


*nods*
I was wondering if anyone has quotes and references on the subject of people who are unable to work either permanently or temporarily (eg. disabled, injured, parental leave) under socialism. The more Marxist the better... and preferably in a book or something (and by that I mean... marxists.org included), although articles are welcomed because they're interesting. (I just can't really use articles as references.)
It's a pretty minor part of my essay...and my essay is due tomorrow. =P So we'll see how this goes.

And hey, if anyone else has essay problems... or wants to discuss the topic I'm asking about here... go ahead! 'Cause it's interesting anyway.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 11:56 pm


Also references on how abundance could be possible are QUITE welcome. ^_^

Comrade Kotka

Shirtless Fatcat


Raziel Hotokashi

PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 4:57 am


Let me give you a REALLY familiar quote.

"From each according to their ability, to each according to their need."
-Marx



If you cannot work due to disability, mental sickness, etc. then you wont work; however, the state will still provide for your existence.
PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:04 pm


Hm, thanks for the reply. Although I was thinking more about socialism than communism.

If anyone is interested, I found something that contributes to my answer:
State and Revolution

In the Critique of the Gotha Programme, Marx goes into detail to disprove Lassalle's idea that under socialism the worker will receive the “undiminished” or "full product of his labor". Marx shows that from the whole of the social labor of society there must be deducted a reserve fund, a fund for the expansion of production, a fund for the replacement of the "wear and tear" of machinery, and so on. Then, from the means of consumption must be deducted a fund for administrative expenses, for schools, hospitals, old people's homes, and so on.

Instead of Lassalle's hazy, obscure, general phrase ("the full product of his labor to the worker"), Marx makes a sober estimate of exactly how socialist society will have to manage its affairs. Marx proceeds to make a concrete analysis of the conditions of life of a society in which there will be no capitalism, and says:

"What we have to deal with here [in analyzing the programme of the workers' party] is a communist society, not as it has developed on its own foundations, but, on the contrary, just as it emerges from capitalist society; which is thus in every respect, economically, morally, and intellectually, still stamped with the birthmarks of the old society from whose womb it comes."

It is this communist society, which has just emerged into the light of day out of the womb of capitalism and which is in every respect stamped with the birthmarks of the old society, that Marx terms the “first”, or lower, phase of communist society.

The means of production are no longer the private property of individuals. The means of production belong to the whole of society. Every member of society, performing a certain part of the socially-necessary work, receives a certificate from society to the effect that he has done a certain amount of work. And with this certificate he receives from the public store of consumer goods a corresponding quantity of products. After a deduction is made of the amount of labor which goes to the public fund, every worker, therefore, receives from society as much as he has given to it.

etc.
(I quoted Lenin quoting Marx so I could kill two sources with one stone.)

Comrade Kotka

Shirtless Fatcat


Le Pere Duchesne
Captain

Beloved Prophet

PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 2:21 am


Comrade Kotka
Hm, thanks for the reply. Although I was thinking more about socialism than communism.

If anyone is interested, I found something that contributes to my answer:
State and Revolution

In the Critique of the Gotha Programme, Marx goes into detail to disprove Lassalle's idea that under socialism the worker will receive the “undiminished” or "full product of his labor". Marx shows that from the whole of the social labor of society there must be deducted a reserve fund, a fund for the expansion of production, a fund for the replacement of the "wear and tear" of machinery, and so on. Then, from the means of consumption must be deducted a fund for administrative expenses, for schools, hospitals, old people's homes, and so on.

Instead of Lassalle's hazy, obscure, general phrase ("the full product of his labor to the worker"), Marx makes a sober estimate of exactly how socialist society will have to manage its affairs. Marx proceeds to make a concrete analysis of the conditions of life of a society in which there will be no capitalism, and says:

"What we have to deal with here [in analyzing the programme of the workers' party] is a communist society, not as it has developed on its own foundations, but, on the contrary, just as it emerges from capitalist society; which is thus in every respect, economically, morally, and intellectually, still stamped with the birthmarks of the old society from whose womb it comes."

It is this communist society, which has just emerged into the light of day out of the womb of capitalism and which is in every respect stamped with the birthmarks of the old society, that Marx terms the “first”, or lower, phase of communist society.

The means of production are no longer the private property of individuals. The means of production belong to the whole of society. Every member of society, performing a certain part of the socially-necessary work, receives a certificate from society to the effect that he has done a certain amount of work. And with this certificate he receives from the public store of consumer goods a corresponding quantity of products. After a deduction is made of the amount of labor which goes to the public fund, every worker, therefore, receives from society as much as he has given to it.

etc.
(I quoted Lenin quoting Marx so I could kill two sources with one stone.)
*is proud*
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:03 am


Louis-Auguste Robespierre
*is proud*


D'awwwww. (Got anything to add?)
Actually, I think this sufficiently makes my point for me anyway. Maybe.

Edit: Ah, I decided I want to quote this anyway.
Critique of the Gotha Programme

From this must now be deducted: First, cover for replacement of the means of production used up. Second, additional portion for expansion of production. Third, reserve or insurance funds to provide against accidents, dislocations caused by natural calamities, etc.

These deductions from the "undiminished" proceeds of labor are an economic necessity, and their magnitude is to be determined according to available means and forces, and partly by computation of probabilities, but they are in no way calculable by equity.

There remains the other part of the total product, intended to serve as means of consumption.

Before this is divided among the individuals, there has to be deducted again, from it: First, the general costs of administration not belonging to production. This part will, from the outset, be very considerably restricted in comparison with present-day society, and it diminishes in proportion as the new society develops. Second, that which is intended for the common satisfaction of needs, such as schools, health services, etc. From the outset, this part grows considerably in comparison with present-day society, and it grows in proportion as the new society develops. Third, funds for those unable to work, etc., in short, for what is included under so-called official poor relief today.

And it goes on.

Comrade Kotka

Shirtless Fatcat


Le Pere Duchesne
Captain

Beloved Prophet

PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:47 am


Comrade Kotka
Louis-Auguste Robespierre
*is proud*


D'awwwww. (Got anything to add?)
Actually, I think this sufficiently makes my point for me anyway. Maybe.

Edit: Ah, I decided I want to quote this anyway.
Critique of the Gotha Programme

From this must now be deducted: First, cover for replacement of the means of production used up. Second, additional portion for expansion of production. Third, reserve or insurance funds to provide against accidents, dislocations caused by natural calamities, etc.

These deductions from the "undiminished" proceeds of labor are an economic necessity, and their magnitude is to be determined according to available means and forces, and partly by computation of probabilities, but they are in no way calculable by equity.

There remains the other part of the total product, intended to serve as means of consumption.

Before this is divided among the individuals, there has to be deducted again, from it: First, the general costs of administration not belonging to production. This part will, from the outset, be very considerably restricted in comparison with present-day society, and it diminishes in proportion as the new society develops. Second, that which is intended for the common satisfaction of needs, such as schools, health services, etc. From the outset, this part grows considerably in comparison with present-day society, and it grows in proportion as the new society develops. Third, funds for those unable to work, etc., in short, for what is included under so-called official poor relief today.

And it goes on.


No, seriously, I am. ^_^
Yeah, that pretty much covers it. CritGoth is great.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:33 am


Comrade Kotka
Louis-Auguste Robespierre
*is proud*


D'awwwww. (Got anything to add?)
Actually, I think this sufficiently makes my point for me anyway. Maybe.

Edit: Ah, I decided I want to quote this anyway.
Critique of the Gotha Programme

From this must now be deducted: First, cover for replacement of the means of production used up. Second, additional portion for expansion of production. Third, reserve or insurance funds to provide against accidents, dislocations caused by natural calamities, etc.

These deductions from the "undiminished" proceeds of labor are an economic necessity, and their magnitude is to be determined according to available means and forces, and partly by computation of probabilities, but they are in no way calculable by equity.

There remains the other part of the total product, intended to serve as means of consumption.

Before this is divided among the individuals, there has to be deducted again, from it: First, the general costs of administration not belonging to production. This part will, from the outset, be very considerably restricted in comparison with present-day society, and it diminishes in proportion as the new society develops. Second, that which is intended for the common satisfaction of needs, such as schools, health services, etc. From the outset, this part grows considerably in comparison with present-day society, and it grows in proportion as the new society develops. Third, funds for those unable to work, etc., in short, for what is included under so-called official poor relief today.

And it goes on.



CRITIQUE OF THE GOTHA PROGRAM! THAT WAS IT!

Intermundia


Comrade Kotka

Shirtless Fatcat

PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:19 pm


Comrade Rob

CRITIQUE OF THE GOTHA PROGRAM! THAT WAS IT!

Thanks for looking anyway. xD I knew I'd get there eventually...
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 12:11 pm


I'm reading Road to Serfdom right now so yeah

lmasdlkjasdoiajusdlknm

Liberal Genius

Reply
MCS: Marxism, Communism, Socialism

 
Manage Your Items
Other Stuff
Get GCash
Offers
Get Items
More Items
Where Everyone Hangs Out
Other Community Areas
Virtual Spaces
Fun Stuff
Gaia's Games
Mini-Games
//
//

// //

Have an account? Login Now!

//
//