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Formerly called the NCS, this is a place for communists and socialists to talk about communism and socialism. 

Tags: Marxism, Communism, Socialism, Political, Left 

Reply MCS: Marxism, Communism, Socialism
Modification to Rule 1 (Commissars) Discussion.

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Le Pere Duchesne
Captain

Beloved Prophet

PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 3:09 pm


As it stands, Rule 1 of the guild runs:

Quote:
Rule 1
The Chair and Vice Chair can appoint 'Commissars'.

Commissars are temporary moderators, appointed by either the Chair or Vice Chair of the guild. As such, they have all the rights and responsibilities of moderators including, but not limited to, the right to vote on the CC and to punish people according to the rules of the guild.

-There can only be two ( 2 ) Commissars appointed at any one time.
-The commission lasts for seven ( 7 ) days, at the end of which the member is to be demoted.
-No member of the guild can be given a commission twice in a row.
-No commissar may serve on a commission with the same member that they served with on their previous commission.
-The Chair of the guild can only appoint Commissars if no more than one ( 1 ) other member of the CC has posted in the CC during the last four ( 4 ) days.
-The Vice-Chair of the guild can only appoint Commissars if no more than one ( 1 ) other member of the CC has posted in the CC during the last six ( 6 ) days.
-The Vice-Chair of the guild cannot appoint Commissars if the Chair of the guild is is the other active member.


Due to random demotions, and a general desire to make the Commission more useful, I propose the following ammendments:

Change:
-There can only be two ( 2 ) Commissars appointed at any one time.
To:
-There can be a maximum of three ( 3 ) commissars appointed at any one time.

Change:
-No member of the guild can be given a commission twice in a row.
To:
-No two ( 2 ) members may serve on the same commission twice in a row.

Eliminate:
-No commissar may serve on a commission with the same member that they served with on their previous commission.

Change:
-The Chair of the guild can only appoint Commissars if no more than one ( 1 ) other member of the CC has posted in the CC during the last four ( 4 ) days.
-The Vice-Chair of the guild can only appoint Commissars if no more than one ( 1 ) other member of the CC has posted in the CC during the last six ( 6 ) days.
-The Vice-Chair of the guild cannot appoint Commissars if the Chair of the guild is is the other active member.
To:
-There must be at least two Commissars at any given time.
-The Vice-Chairs of the guild can only appoint Commissars if the Chair of the guild has not posted within the previous three days.

Add:
-Commissions can only be ended prematurely if the Commissar in question abuses their power or breaches the word or intent of the guild's constitution and rules.
-The decision must be made via majority vote of the CC including all Commissioned members, barring the one being accused.
-Commissars cannot be demoted en mass, and each demotion must be voted on seperately.

The end result:

Quote:
Rule 1
The Chair and Vice Chair can appoint 'Commissars'.

Commissars are temporary moderators, appointed by either the Chair or Vice Chair of the guild. As such, they have all the rights and responsibilities of moderators including, but not limited to, the right to vote on the CC and to punish people according to the rules of the guild.

-There can be a maximum of three ( 3 ) commissars appointed at any one time.
-The commission lasts for seven ( 7 ) days, at the end of which the member is to be demoted.
-No two ( 2 ) members may serve on the same commission twice in a row.
-There must be at least two Commissars at any given time.
-The Vice-Chairs of the guild can only appoint Commissars if the Chair of the guild has not posted within the previous three days.
-Commissions can only be ended prematurely if the Commissar in question abuses their power or breaches the word or intent of the guild's constitution and rules.
-The decision must be made via majority vote of the CC including all Commissioned members, barring the one being accused in that vote.
-Commissars cannot be demoted en mass, and each demotion must be voted on separately.


This will be discussed for one week, at the end of which the CC will vote, if there isn't already unanimity of position expressed in this thread.  
PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 4:04 pm


I really don't see a point in the Commissars unless there is no activity within the CC.

Intermundia


The Curse

PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 4:12 pm


Comrade Rob
I really don't see a point in the Commissars unless there is no activity within the CC.


This.

And in more active times, it will just be a way for a controlling faction to bully others through power.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 6:32 pm


Comrade Rob
I really don't see a point in the Commissars unless there is no activity within the CC.

And there is barely any activity in the CC, EVAR, so...

However, another point that I brought up to Kotka when thinking this s**t up originally is that it will help people feel like they 'own' the guild if they are occasionally brought into the CC and can vote and s**t.

Actually giving commissars duties would go a long way to help as well.

Le Pere Duchesne
Captain

Beloved Prophet


Comrade Kotka

Shirtless Fatcat

PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 10:57 pm


Louis-Auguste Robespierre

Actually giving commissars duties would go a long way to help as well.

That'd be cool. When I was commissar, there was nothing really to vote on so I felt a bit useless (and activity was lowish, so there wasn't much to mod).

Although, if you intend to hand out duties, probably ask people before making them commissars... for example, right now I'm writing three essays ( crying ) and would not be much help if you assigned me anything. *nods*
PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 9:27 am


Well see this is why I wanted to adopt the CM (Council of Members) idea in Gallengers draft of the constitution so that the Non-CC members could act also as a governing body of the guild.

Intermundia


Le Pere Duchesne
Captain

Beloved Prophet

PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 11:23 am


Comrade Rob
Well see this is why I wanted to adopt the CM (Council of Members) idea in Gallengers draft of the constitution so that the Non-CC members could act also as a governing body of the guild.

But that is stupid, it eliminates the point of having an elected leadership at all, setting up an absurd bicameral system whose sole basis for existing is to say "The membership of the guild does not trust the elected leadership of the guild." Essentially, it is a plan which seeks to mobilise the newer and more backward sections of the guild against the more politically advanced sections. What the commissariat seeks to do is educate the membership of the guild by slowly exposing them to the workings of the guild and trying to raise them to a higher level of consciousness.
PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 1:32 pm


Louis-Auguste Robespierre
Comrade Rob
Well see this is why I wanted to adopt the CM (Council of Members) idea in Gallengers draft of the constitution so that the Non-CC members could act also as a governing body of the guild.

But that is stupid, it eliminates the point of having an elected leadership at all, setting up an absurd bicameral system whose sole basis for existing is to say "The membership of the guild does not trust the elected leadership of the guild." Essentially, it is a plan which seeks to mobilise the newer and more backward sections of the guild against the more politically advanced sections. What the commissariat seeks to do is educate the membership of the guild by slowly exposing them to the workings of the guild and trying to raise them to a higher level of consciousness.


Thats one way to look at it. But having commissars pretty much says that the CC is useless also. No matter which way you twist it it sucks. Also having the CM endows a responsibility upon the guild members in its entirety. Its powers are up for debate, but the its sure as hell better than making members compete every week for a commissar seat..

Intermundia


Le Pere Duchesne
Captain

Beloved Prophet

PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 5:01 pm


Comrade Rob
Louis-Auguste Robespierre
Comrade Rob
Well see this is why I wanted to adopt the CM (Council of Members) idea in Gallengers draft of the constitution so that the Non-CC members could act also as a governing body of the guild.

But that is stupid, it eliminates the point of having an elected leadership at all, setting up an absurd bicameral system whose sole basis for existing is to say "The membership of the guild does not trust the elected leadership of the guild." Essentially, it is a plan which seeks to mobilise the newer and more backward sections of the guild against the more politically advanced sections. What the commissariat seeks to do is educate the membership of the guild by slowly exposing them to the workings of the guild and trying to raise them to a higher level of consciousness.


Thats one way to look at it. But having commissars pretty much says that the CC is useless also. No matter which way you twist it it sucks. Also having the CM endows a responsibility upon the guild members in its entirety. Its powers are up for debate, but the its sure as hell better than making members compete every week for a commissar seat..

I doubt members would compete, but that is a rather minor issue in any case. As is the idea that Commissars mean that the CC is useless. The idea behind commissars is to help breath new life into the CC, not render it redundant.

The practical result of such a council, would be the disolution of the CC as a meaningful body, or rendering the CM into a stamp factory for the CC.
"Essentially, it is a plan which seeks to mobilise the newer and more backward sections of the guild against the more politically advanced sections. "
PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 6:14 pm


Louis-Auguste Robespierre
Comrade Rob
Louis-Auguste Robespierre
Comrade Rob
Well see this is why I wanted to adopt the CM (Council of Members) idea in Gallengers draft of the constitution so that the Non-CC members could act also as a governing body of the guild.

But that is stupid, it eliminates the point of having an elected leadership at all, setting up an absurd bicameral system whose sole basis for existing is to say "The membership of the guild does not trust the elected leadership of the guild." Essentially, it is a plan which seeks to mobilise the newer and more backward sections of the guild against the more politically advanced sections. What the commissariat seeks to do is educate the membership of the guild by slowly exposing them to the workings of the guild and trying to raise them to a higher level of consciousness.


Thats one way to look at it. But having commissars pretty much says that the CC is useless also. No matter which way you twist it it sucks. Also having the CM endows a responsibility upon the guild members in its entirety. Its powers are up for debate, but the its sure as hell better than making members compete every week for a commissar seat..

I doubt members would compete, but that is a rather minor issue in any case. As is the idea that Commissars mean that the CC is useless. The idea behind commissars is to help breath new life into the CC, not render it redundant.

The practical result of such a council, would be the disolution of the CC as a meaningful body, or rendering the CM into a stamp factory for the CC.
"Essentially, it is a plan which seeks to mobilise the newer and more backward sections of the guild against the more politically advanced sections. "



Look. Commissars are not necessary, the guild has lived for years without them and I sure as hell do not assume that without them now we will be doomed. The commissar system also mobilizes the newer and more backward sections of the guild just not all at once. Again, I know little as to how the CM would actually function outside from what Gallenger has presented us. I only find myself defending it as an alternative to the commissar system which has done nothing but proven itself to be a superfluous system since its enactment. Furthermore, How is "breathing new life into the CC" any different than mobilizing "the newer and more backward sections of the guild against the more politically advanced sections" if it is from these "backward sections" you so draw your candidates?

Intermundia

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MCS: Marxism, Communism, Socialism

 
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