|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 7:45 am
I have often heard lately about how you do not need to produce good works, but this would appear contradictory to what Christ has said in Matthew 7:17-20 which states Quote: 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. From what it appears, our works are wrought by ourselves from that verse, Heavenly Father may work through us at times, but we must also have the desire to perform good works. I have long debated this with other people, and I'm NOT saying that works get you into heaven, because yes, we are saved by grace, but do we truly earn that grace when we just confess that Christ is our Saviour, or must we strive everyday to be Christ-like? Wouldn't that be what our Saviour wants is a child that is striving to live the life that He lived, and bringing others to the happiness that we feel when we are truly Christ-like? Aren't we all supposed to be fishers of men, and not just idle men of worship? What are your thoughts?
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:00 am
Well i believe that Grace is the root and works are the fruit.. so works would only merely be the evidence of your relationship with Christ... forcing one's self only to add to a point system would in my opinion be heresy. If we do any good works let us do it in secret and not blow a trumpet, i believe when the scriptures mention that who ever believe in him will not perish but have everlasting life , this in change would stand to reason that believing in him would be believing in his words its a packaged deal. We are supposed to take care of the poor im not pin pointing scripture but it is written "when i was in prison did you visit me?" we are all put on this earth to do different things , we all have different talents so i wouldn't tell everyone to be a pastor , deacon or whatever . But in all of us lies a gift that is meant to be used for his purpose so yes we should invest our talents for good , to me it would make us a wicked servant to not do so.
Works are evidence, just like gifts of the spirit are evidence.
So really faith without works is dead,{im not saying you have to go save the world } but what i am saying is you can't just go to the cross and say "thank you" and go off and do what you want . when you are in love with someone you try your best not to hurt them , sin is disobedience to our God, when you sin you grieve God.
Another interesting thing to think about is are there 2 kinds of "works"
1# the works you do to help others
2# the works that God does on you to change your character
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:43 am
LordTalisEraphen Another interesting thing to think about is are there 2 kinds of "works" 1# the works you do to help others 2# the works that God does on you to change your character Although I do believe it is work for number 2, I think it is more characterized in the sense that I know as a change of heart, or with God, a mighty change of heart. For our character can generally change with the people we associate with, but it usually takes God (in the most cosmic sense) to change our heart.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:17 pm
LordTalisEraphen Well i believe that Grace is the root and works are the fruit.. so works would only merely be the evidence of your relationship with Christ... forcing one's self only to add to a point system would in my opinion be heresy. If we do any good works let us do it in secret and not blow a trumpet, i believe when the scriptures mention that who ever believe in him will not perish but have everlasting life , this in change would stand to reason that believing in him would be believing in his words its a packaged deal. We are supposed to take care of the poor im not pin pointing scripture but it is written "when i was in prison did you visit me?" we are all put on this earth to do different things , we all have different talents so i wouldn't tell everyone to be a pastor , deacon or whatever . But in all of us lies a gift that is meant to be used for his purpose so yes we should invest our talents for good , to me it would make us a wicked servant to not do so. Works are evidence, just like gifts of the spirit are evidence. So really faith without works is dead,{im not saying you have to go save the world } but what i am saying is you can't just go to the cross and say "thank you" and go off and do what you want . when you are in love with someone you try your best not to hurt them , sin is disobedience to our God, when you sin you grieve God. Another interesting thing to think about is are there 2 kinds of "works" 1# the works you do to help others 2# the works that God does on you to change your character Agreed to the extreme
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:00 am
Yes we are suppose to be fisher of men. Lately I've been looking at family and friends in that light; I noticed that some move aggressively in pursuit of others with the good news and others draw people with their behavior alone. Both ways can obtain the same results, and that is one of our purposes as his children to draw others unto him. The reward is knowing some one has turned to the Lord. True satisfaction that never grows old.
Just another thought; people are drawn to good fruit they develope an appetite or desire for it, it helps in maintaining the body, whereas bad fruit causes rejection and illness, something one would want to avoid.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 4:29 pm
James 2 is the relevant chapter here.
14
What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?
15
If a brother or sister has nothing to wear and has no food for the day,
16
and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, keep warm, and eat well," but you do not give them the necessities of the body, what good is it?
17
So also faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18
Indeed someone might say, "You have faith and I have works." Demonstrate your faith to me without works, and I will demonstrate my faith to you from my works.
19
You believe that God is one. You do well. Even the demons believe that and tremble.
20
Do you want proof, you ignoramus, that faith without works is useless?
21
Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar?
22
You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by the works.
23
Thus the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called "the friend of God."
24
See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:53 pm
IcarusDream James 2 is the relevant chapter here. 14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister has nothing to wear and has no food for the day, 16 and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, keep warm, and eat well," but you do not give them the necessities of the body, what good is it? 17 So also faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead. 18 Indeed someone might say, "You have faith and I have works." Demonstrate your faith to me without works, and I will demonstrate my faith to you from my works. 19 You believe that God is one. You do well. Even the demons believe that and tremble. 20 Do you want proof, you ignoramus, that faith without works is useless? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar? 22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by the works. 23 Thus the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called "the friend of God." 24 See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. Matthew 25 is very clear about this as well: 31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ 37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? 38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? 39 And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, [6] you did it to me.’
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ 44 Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ 45 Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 2:08 am
These passages need to be posted within there full context of the Sermon, and refer to living a life worthy of Christ with both the Gate and the "path" to him being narrow, immediately after he then goes into the Tree parable then circles back to the famous phrase "Some will say but we called you Lord Lord! and i will say i knew you not"
That not just saying a prayer one time and saying "I really love jesus" is enough for salvation, one must constantly live a life as he would have desired by obeying his words, and this in turn would produce good heavenly fruits, for nothing Good can come of one who is bad(Sin's) and nothing Bad can come of one who is Good(Walk's in Christ's name).
That was at least an interpretation of the passage i hold very strongly to in a larger context
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
