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Asuna6573
Crew

PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:54 pm


More from her site. One thing: Mooooooo...
Sorry, overreaction. But worth it. (I've been stuck thinking like her for the last two hours for a forum.)

Quote:
What are the characters' biggest mistakes in Eclipse, their tragic flaws?

Bella's is a lack of self-knowledge; she never would have pursued her friendship with Jacob if she had realized how much more than friendship it really was. You don't give up your friends when you fall in love; however, you do give up your other romantic interests. If Bella had understood herself better, she could have saved everyone a lot of heartbreak. Sometimes that happens when you try to do the right thing.

Edward's big mistake is overreaction. It's in his nature to be too extreme (see: New Moon). He's a very all-or-nothing kind of person, and it makes him unreasonable. In the beginning of Eclipse, he's too overprotective. When he sees the error of his ways, he goes too far in the other direction. He could have chosen a middle ground—maybe admitted to his jealousy and asked Bella to choose him, rather than watching her get in deeper with Jacob. Of course, he has other issues that make forcing this issue problematic. What if Jacob is better for her? What if Bella could have a more complete life with him? Should Edward really insist that Bella give everything up for vampire life? Or would it be better to let her make a fully informed choice? Can you see his dilemma? Part of Edward wants Bella to choose Jacob (and life).

Jacob doesn't have a tragic flaw. He has one goal and one hope. His goal is to save Bella's life. His hope is that he'll win her heart in the process. He fails at both. But that doesn't mean he regrets trying. If he could do it over again, he'd do the same thing. Jacob couldn't live with himself if he didn't give saving Bella his best effort—he knows it's going to hurt when he loses, but he knows it would hurt worse if he didn't try. Does he do everything right? Heck, no! But he's sixteen and he's making it up as he goes along. Those who are upset by some of his tactics should consider his youth and the fact that he is, after all, right. Bella is in love with him. (In the end, it's truly healthier for her to be aware of this as she goes forward with unalterable decisions.)


Whoo boy... Anybody want a go at this first? I'll put my analysis tomorrow. Already bolded parts that were interesting to me... *brain is fried*
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:28 pm


HAHA! SHE ADMITTED THAT EDWARD DID SOMETHING WRONG! THUS MAKING HIM IMPERFECT IN EVERY WAY! MUAHAHAHAHA "Edward's big mistake is overreaction"

o o l3ubbles o o
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 11:19 pm


heh. Lol.
PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:01 am


okay, first of all bella just stupid, just becuase she's good looking (though i think she's not), she can just go around and break people's heart. edaward just too protective and abusive, come on nobody wants this kind of person. i'm amaze how much fan girls he has. and then there's jacob. the only bad thing that i could say is that he' a fool to fall for bella. she's already love the spackly-so-call-vampire, and you just her back up plan, dude. sounds harsh, but that's my opinion, thank you!

krusnix


Asuna6573
Crew

PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 9:49 pm


Asuna6573
More from her site. One thing: Mooooooo...
Sorry, overreaction. But worth it. (I've been stuck thinking like her for the last two hours for a forum.)

Quote:
What are the characters' biggest mistakes in Eclipse, their tragic flaws?

Bella's is a lack of self-knowledge; she never would have pursued her friendship with Jacob if she had realized how much more than friendship it really was. You don't give up your friends when you fall in love; however, you do give up your other romantic interests. If Bella had understood herself better, she could have saved everyone a lot of heartbreak. Sometimes that happens when you try to do the right thing.

Edward's big mistake is overreaction. It's in his nature to be too extreme (see: New Moon). He's a very all-or-nothing kind of person, and it makes him unreasonable. In the beginning of Eclipse, he's too overprotective. When he sees the error of his ways, he goes too far in the other direction. He could have chosen a middle ground—maybe admitted to his jealousy and asked Bella to choose him, rather than watching her get in deeper with Jacob. Of course, he has other issues that make forcing this issue problematic. What if Jacob is better for her? What if Bella could have a more complete life with him? Should Edward really insist that Bella give everything up for vampire life? Or would it be better to let her make a fully informed choice? Can you see his dilemma? Part of Edward wants Bella to choose Jacob (and life).

Jacob doesn't have a tragic flaw. He has one goal and one hope. His goal is to save Bella's life. His hope is that he'll win her heart in the process. He fails at both. But that doesn't mean he regrets trying. If he could do it over again, he'd do the same thing. Jacob couldn't live with himself if he didn't give saving Bella his best effort—he knows it's going to hurt when he loses, but he knows it would hurt worse if he didn't try. Does he do everything right? Heck, no! But he's sixteen and he's making it up as he goes along. Those who are upset by some of his tactics should consider his youth and the fact that he is, after all, right. Bella is in love with him. (In the end, it's truly healthier for her to be aware of this as she goes forward with unalterable decisions.)


Whoo boy... Anybody want a go at this first? I'll put my analysis tomorrow. Already bolded parts that were interesting to me... *brain is fried*


...Man, I am so late on this... Sorry... Thank Malpercio for cake, huh?

Anywho, let's get started.

First, I'm going to deal with Bella's "flaw". Lack of self knowledge? Oh, you mean the fact that due to her Mary Sue self everyone loves her. Yeah, how is that a flaw? To quote the Mary Sue Litmus Test:
Quote:
(If your character is despised by everyone because he/she gets so much attention, douse yourself with cold water RIGHT NOW.)

That seems to describe Bella, doesn't it? Someone get Meyer a bucket of ice cold water.
Bella and Jacob started out as friends: There was never any hint of romance until Edward left. Naturally, she would be friends with the person who stopped her from being all depressed.
And giving up your other romantic interests: Even if they were your friends first? What, so in Meyer land, if you fall in love with someone, drop any guy friends? Yeah... NO. This? Why this is hardcore Mary Sue evidence. Anyone want to put the characters through the Litmus? I bet it will say Kill it Dead. It was updated yesterday, so it's pretty darn accurate.
...I just did. It's a whopping 104, over fifty past the Kill It Dead stage.

Next: On to Edward, the creepy abusive stalker-boyfriend. Overreaction is his flaw. Yes, it actually a flaw, and I am as shocked as you are. But she could have chosen SO many others. Jealousy,, over protection, abusiveness, lust, envy, greed, oh so many! Three of which, I might add, are from the Seven Deadly Sins. Notice, however, that she brushes it off as "in his nature". Yeah, his mentally messed up nature that needs a psychologist more then the writer. Honestly? I think this is the one thing she said that makes sense, then she dashes the hope that she would be intelligent with the following paragraph. And Jacob WOULD be better for her, if he hadn't had a case of Personality Derailment.

Which brings me to Jacob. He has no flaws in this book, according to Smeyer. I guess she has to have all her characters be Sues and Stus, huh? Despite that, yes he does have flaws. While he may be the nicest main character in the story, he messes up BIG TIME. He turns into a complete a** in this book, which is completely different from the previous books.

Also, her excuse for pretty much forcing himself on Bella. Not once, but twice. I don't care WHAT your reasons are, you do not do that to someone! Sexual assault, anyone? Just because he is young, doesn't mean it's okay.

What if someone used that excuse in an abuse trial? A murder trial?

"Oh, but Kira's so young! Besides, he was doing something that ultimately benefited the world!"
(...I've read Death Note a lot lately.)
I used that example for a reason. Do you think that would fly with the court system, L, or the investigators? HELL NO! Age and reason does not eliminate the crime! You know what you did, you thought about it, and you completed it. Jacob manipulated Bella during Eclipse to get that last kiss, and threatened suicide. What is he, Edwad? (Intentional misspelling.) For some reason, Smeyer seems to think that it's romantic. No, it isn't, it's a control tactic.

*sighs* Any thoughts? And does anyone think I shouldn't have cake and coffee before doing these?

...I'm starting to think no.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 12:01 pm


My thoughts are that you are so spot-on with all of this that there is hardly any room for anyone else to add something, because your evaluations are thorough. It's refreshing to see intelligence and complete sentence structure on a message board, a rare treat. My same thoughts go to quoting Death Note (may L Lawlier rest in peace). Also, eat more sugar and have more coffee before commenting...it's not too much, it's too little.

TheEvilSideSDfL


Asuna6573
Crew

PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 4:15 pm


TheEvilSideSDfL
My thoughts are that you are so spot-on with all of this that there is hardly any room for anyone else to add something, because your evaluations are thorough. It's refreshing to see intelligence and complete sentence structure on a message board, a rare treat. My same thoughts go to quoting Death Note (may L Lawlier rest in peace). Also, eat more sugar and have more coffee before commenting...it's not too much, it's too little.

*lowers head for L* Stupid Kira...
Very well, then. I guess that cake's going faster then before, then!

As for being thorough... Well, I hate to miss something. Anything at all that I can find, I'll show. It helps make my case.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:02 pm


Asuna6573
TheEvilSideSDfL
My thoughts are that you are so spot-on with all of this that there is hardly any room for anyone else to add something, because your evaluations are thorough. It's refreshing to see intelligence and complete sentence structure on a message board, a rare treat. My same thoughts go to quoting Death Note (may L Lawlier rest in peace). Also, eat more sugar and have more coffee before commenting...it's not too much, it's too little.

*lowers head for L* Stupid Kira...
Very well, then. I guess that cake's going faster then before, then!

As for being thorough... Well, I hate to miss something. Anything at all that I can find, I'll show. It helps make my case.


Maybe if you find enough evidence you can make all of ourlives happier by getting her incarcerated.

TheEvilSideSDfL


un cauchemar plaisant

PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 4:18 pm


Meyer's idioticness is idiotic. That's all I have to say.
Reply
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