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Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 4:22 am
Just garnering opinions. So lets play a little hypothetical.
You're in control of a medium sized state, lets say, somewhere between France and Canada in terms of power, influence and resources.
As its leader, you get to set the foreign policy. The climate is much like it is today. Mostly capitalist states in the first world, and mostly despots in the third world, and a few spots of different ideologies here and there.
First of all, your country isn't self sufficient in and of itself without sacrificing multiple luxuries and its first world status. So you have to trade at least a little.
But aside from that, do you trade? Do you trade with governments that are sympathetic to you? Do you unleash the imperial whip on little guys that could supplement you? How do you approach trade? Will you join, or at least try to join the WTO (they will force you to make certain liberalisations of your economy to gain membership)?
How about foreign investment? Are you going to tariff the hell out of foreign companies? Stop them altogether? Force them to build domestic production facilities?
TEL ME AL UR SECRITS
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Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:27 am
It all depends on the circumstances. Except the WTO. NEVER join the WTO, UN or other international body such as that.
As Lenin said of the League of Nations: "The den of the imperialists and their victims."
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Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 4:17 pm
I've played too much Civ 4 to know that formal alliances are terrible and will get you killed in the long run.
I'd have to say that If I could, I'd focus government resources on energy and agriculture, and trade for manufactured goods from Socialist countries, or countries with a HIGH level of government employed workers like Cuba. They need energy to get up to a first world, we need other raw materials/manufactured goods.
I'd like to really see my country develop a massive recycling program as well as an automated agricultural system in the heart of cities, to maximize land away from the urban populace (for things like military, nuclear/wind/solar plants).
Good Idea?
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Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 6:05 pm
Louis-Auguste Robespierre It all depends on the circumstances. Except the WTO. NEVER join the WTO, UN or other international body such as that. As Lenin said of the League of Nations: "The den of the imperialists and their victims." See you rail against internationalism, but you'll trade on individual levels?
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Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 6:10 pm
Raziel Hotokashi I've played too much Civ 4 to know that formal alliances are terrible and will get you killed in the long run. I'd have to say that If I could, I'd focus government resources on energy and agriculture, and trade for manufactured goods from Socialist countries, or countries with a HIGH level of government employed workers like Cuba. They need energy to get up to a first world, we need other raw materials/manufactured goods. I'd like to really see my country develop a massive recycling program as well as an automated agricultural system in the heart of cities, to maximize land away from the urban populace (for things like military, nuclear/wind/solar plants). Good Idea? The agriculture market is one of the most flooded markets on the planet. By focussing yourself on agriculture, you would be competing with every other third world country, and a few big time first world ones. You'd have to have a very attractive production rate versus quality and price to compete with the other sellers. Trying to have different countries focus on certain areas isn't a bad idea though. The problem is if you have a falling out with that nation, that nation crumbles due to its own civil troubles or other such things, you lose an entire industry. So I hope you have a fall-back plan. Massive recycling is something many capitalists desire too. So, I'd have to say if you can get it functioning efficiently, more-so than any recycling plans in effect today, then more power to you. Though, I think it should be a secondary objective in comparison to producing food, shelter and various modern, first world needs.
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Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 6:32 pm
The Curse Louis-Auguste Robespierre It all depends on the circumstances. Except the WTO. NEVER join the WTO, UN or other international body such as that. As Lenin said of the League of Nations: "The den of the imperialists and their victims." See you rail against internationalism, but you'll trade on individual levels? Rail against internationalism? Wut?
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Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 6:48 pm
Louis-Auguste Robespierre The Curse Louis-Auguste Robespierre It all depends on the circumstances. Except the WTO. NEVER join the WTO, UN or other international body such as that. As Lenin said of the League of Nations: "The den of the imperialists and their victims." See you rail against internationalism, but you'll trade on individual levels? Rail against internationalism? Wut? My internationalism not yours. Didn't we have this argument? It's also a style of globalisation that many support. Not a weird commie happy happy joy joy fest. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internationalism_(politics)
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Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 6:58 pm
The Curse Louis-Auguste Robespierre The Curse Louis-Auguste Robespierre It all depends on the circumstances. Except the WTO. NEVER join the WTO, UN or other international body such as that. As Lenin said of the League of Nations: "The den of the imperialists and their victims." See you rail against internationalism, but you'll trade on individual levels? Rail against internationalism? Wut? My internationalism not yours. Didn't we have this argument? It's also a style of globalisation that many support. Not a weird commie happy happy joy joy fest. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internationalism_(politics) Internationalism and even a united world government in the future would be ideal. What we are opposed to as socialists is Neo-liberal Globalization.
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Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 7:00 pm
iRage The Curse Louis-Auguste Robespierre The Curse Louis-Auguste Robespierre It all depends on the circumstances. Except the WTO. NEVER join the WTO, UN or other international body such as that. As Lenin said of the League of Nations: "The den of the imperialists and their victims." See you rail against internationalism, but you'll trade on individual levels? Rail against internationalism? Wut? My internationalism not yours. Didn't we have this argument? It's also a style of globalisation that many support. Not a weird commie happy happy joy joy fest. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internationalism_(politics) Internationalism and even a united world government in the future would be ideal. What we are opposed to as socialists is Neo-liberal Globalization. Internationalism is a form of globalisation. I'm afraid you're mistaken in that respect.
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Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 7:01 pm
The Curse iRage The Curse Louis-Auguste Robespierre The Curse Louis-Auguste Robespierre It all depends on the circumstances. Except the WTO. NEVER join the WTO, UN or other international body such as that. As Lenin said of the League of Nations: "The den of the imperialists and their victims." See you rail against internationalism, but you'll trade on individual levels? Rail against internationalism? Wut? My internationalism not yours. Didn't we have this argument? It's also a style of globalisation that many support. Not a weird commie happy happy joy joy fest. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internationalism_(politics) Internationalism and even a united world government in the future would be ideal. What we are opposed to as socialists is Neo-liberal Globalization. Internationalism is a form of globalisation. I'm afraid you're mistaken in that respect. Neoliberalism is a specific form of globalization.
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Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 7:16 pm
iRage The Curse iRage The Curse Louis-Auguste Robespierre Rail against internationalism? Wut? My internationalism not yours. Didn't we have this argument? It's also a style of globalisation that many support. Not a weird commie happy happy joy joy fest. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internationalism_(politics) Internationalism and even a united world government in the future would be ideal. What we are opposed to as socialists is Neo-liberal Globalization. Internationalism is a form of globalisation. I'm afraid you're mistaken in that respect. Neoliberalism is a specific form of globalization. Gracc clearly said he was against multinational economic groups such as the WTO. That's not a purely neo-liberal group. In fact, it allows plenty of provisions for Keynesian nations, and other groups critical of unrestrained capitalism. So yeah, you're unfortunately mistaken. He railed against internationalism. Which in a sense, is just regional or community based economic ties. I'm sure if they were all Neo-Trotskyist love fests he'd be all for it, but that isn't the point. The nations of the EU only have loose moral and ideological ties, they range from semi-socialist to hyper conservative. One example I can think of is a rule of no death penalty to gain membership. That's internationalism.
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Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 6:01 pm
Cut off all resource exchange with the outside world, save for with the third world. Trade ONLY in resources Adopt a currency that is completely worthless outside the nation. Pay people based on the value of their labor. Collect no taxes. Decry foreign investment as imperialism. With a valueless currency on the global market, our economy will be, for all intensive purposes, independent, save for direct resource exchange. Want a building built? Get some cement. Monetary investment has been made completely pointless by this concept. At some point I believe I outlined this to Merewyn. In this situation, money is merely a method in which the people purchase the things they need. On any higher level it means absolutely nothing. In a smaller nation with fewer resources, I imagine I'd do what Cuba is doing to an extent. A true socialist nation will, as soon as possible, withdraw from the global economy entirely, at least as far as currency exchange goes.
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Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 7:31 pm
King To Be Hailed Cut off all resource exchange with the outside world, save for with the third world. Trade ONLY in resources Adopt a currency that is completely worthless outside the nation. Pay people based on the value of their labor. Collect no taxes. Decry foreign investment as imperialism. With a valueless currency on the global market, our economy will be, for all intensive purposes, independent, save for direct resource exchange. Want a building built? Get some cement. Monetary investment has been made completely pointless by this concept. At some point I believe I outlined this to Merewyn. In this situation, money is merely a method in which the people purchase the things they need. On any higher level it means absolutely nothing. In a smaller nation with fewer resources, I imagine I'd do what Cuba is doing to an extent. A true socialist nation will, as soon as possible, withdraw from the global economy entirely, at least as far as currency exchange goes. How can a poor individual possibly be expected to have the cement to build a house? Plus whatever resource it is you're demanding for them to hire the labour? Oh screw that. How can you possibly maintain a first world status if you've completely cut yourself off to the first world. You think if the third world had to choose between making sanctions on you to please the capitalists, or trading with you despite, they will choose you? Sounds like 'North Korea here we come' is your slogan.
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Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:19 pm
The Curse King To Be Hailed Cut off all resource exchange with the outside world, save for with the third world. Trade ONLY in resources Adopt a currency that is completely worthless outside the nation. Pay people based on the value of their labor. Collect no taxes. Decry foreign investment as imperialism. With a valueless currency on the global market, our economy will be, for all intensive purposes, independent, save for direct resource exchange. Want a building built? Get some cement. Monetary investment has been made completely pointless by this concept. At some point I believe I outlined this to Merewyn. In this situation, money is merely a method in which the people purchase the things they need. On any higher level it means absolutely nothing. In a smaller nation with fewer resources, I imagine I'd do what Cuba is doing to an extent. A true socialist nation will, as soon as possible, withdraw from the global economy entirely, at least as far as currency exchange goes. How can a poor individual possibly be expected to have the cement to build a house? Plus whatever resource it is you're demanding for them to hire the labour? Oh screw that. How can you possibly maintain a first world status if you've completely cut yourself off to the first world. You think if the third world had to choose between making sanctions on you to please the capitalists, or trading with you despite, they will choose you? Sounds like 'North Korea here we come' is your slogan. Quote: How can a poor individual possibly be expected to have the cement to build a house? Government built, clearly. Not that houses are exactly efficient. They take up too much space. Quote: You think if the third world had to choose between making sanctions on you to please the capitalists, or trading with you despite, they will choose you? Give them a good enough deal (considering the capitalist track record in this department, it won't be hard), and they'll see it as being much more useful to trade with you. Eventually they'd be in a sort of neo-vassalage position, methinks. Hundreds of years of trade with capitalist powers has empowered the third world... how much? Only a brief exchange with my nation would provide empower the ******** out of them. It'd be much easier to talk them into establishing a similar system, and once that occurs, for all intensive purposes, national borders would be dissolved. Resources would flow freely depending on need.
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Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:00 pm
King To Be Hailed Give them a good enough deal (considering the capitalist track record in this department, it won't be hard), and they'll see it as being much more useful to trade with you. Eventually they'd be in a sort of neo-vassalage position, methinks. Hundreds of years of trade with capitalist powers has empowered the third world... how much? Only a brief exchange with my nation would provide empower the ******** out of them. It'd be much easier to talk them into establishing a similar system, and once that occurs, for all intensive purposes, national borders would be dissolved. Resources would flow freely depending on need. I don't think the nationalism, despotism and aristocrats in established African, Asian or South American nations would allow for such a merger. So how exactly are you going to convince them to surrender all their power, influence and individuality to you in return for more resources? It's basically like you're suggesting that the USA go to a third world nation and say 'You can become our 51st state".
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