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 Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 1:14 am
1. Why are we too worried about it? I mean, what could could they possibly do than disagree with our thoughts and oppinions?
2. Im with nobody. I not sure what I am.
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Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 4:14 pm
If you are referring to my thread in which a funny picture was posted, then it was mostly a joke from the guild chat.
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Miza_Radioaktiv Vice Captain
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Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:55 pm
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Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 3:35 am
Yeah. What could I possibly do that would merit my not being here? 
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Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 5:29 am
The Curse Yeah. What could I possibly do that would merit my not being here? Anti-communism, as well as the nationalism expressed int he sig SHOULD, but WON'T be enough to warrant expulsion.
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Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 3:50 pm
Louis-Auguste Robespierre Anti-communism, as well as the nationalism expressed int he sig SHOULD, but WON'T be enough to warrant expulsion. Your tolerance in the face of opposing ideologies is awe inspiring. Sorry for the leading the topic away from rooting out those damn dirty Capitalist folk but, Why seek to expel them in the first place? Normally I'd use an economic parable to explain this but, Seeing as that would only be met with cries of disagreement, I'll use Science. As can be garnered, Most of folks in this guild are either Agnostic, Atheist or Anti-Theist. Using this presumption as a jumping point: It can be assumed that most, if not all, Acknowledge and / or agree with Evolution as a [scientific] theory / fact. A cornerstone of the Evolutionary theory is that organisms will slowly change when exposed to a new stimulus in order to better survive with the new stimulus for the better. Following this further: Propose in a particular environment (A jungle, Perhaps) numerous species existed, All of which have several vastly different characteristics. Each animal would have their own particular strengths and weaknesses specially adapting to thrive both in the given environment and with the surrounding species. This process is, Of course, Ever-changing as all the species react to each other in order to increase the odds of survival. Therefore, In a environment with numerous stimuli, An organism will adapt to become ever better as time progresses. On the other hand: If a single species were to inhabit a given environment without the continuous supply of stimuli offered by a multi-species area, They would eventually stagnate in their evolution as they only had their environment to adapt to. Albeit, That isn't a perfect description of this guild. It's more like a single-species area that react to new stimuli by chasing them off / expelling them. It is in my presumption that would lead to a semi-stagnant guild of people well-equipped to chase off foreigners. Therefore, In an environment with few to no new stimuli, An organism will eventually stagnate in their progression as time goes on. This is why I believe that persons of all political ideologies should be allowed into this guild. It will allow people who are true to Communism to crystallize their thoughts into a better belief system as superior concepts supersede those that will ultimately lead to failure. Also, If Communism is truly a perfect system, An open forum with people of all thoughts and beliefs will be bound to convince them over time. In closing: Isolating yourself from people with different ideologies will only cause this guild to stagnate in political thought as the same ideas are tossed around again and again without anything to challenge them and make them better. While allowing differing thought will force one to drop beliefs that are impossible and sharpen their opinions into irrevocable truths, On all sides. Attempting to shield yourself from the big, bad Capitalists, Fascists, Racists and whatnot is only hurting the guild as a whole and all its organs.
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Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:17 pm
The Curse Yeah. What could I possibly do that would merit my not being here? Too easy Curse. also no one cares about capitalists.
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Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:42 pm
Tzar Snow Wolf VII Attempting to shield yourself from the big, bad Capitalists, Fascists, Racists and whatnot is only hurting the guild as a whole and all its organs. Except that we do encounter it. There are plenty to encounter irl, I assure you. =) And if you're talking just Gaia, the ED-P is a good place to start. This is a 'Neo-Communist, Communist and Socialist' guild (although that first one may be subject to change). I can't even believe you listed racists as an example; communists and socialists simply must not stand for that. Also.. biological evolution metaphor is quite irrelevant imo.
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Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 10:07 pm
Comrade Kotka Except that we do encounter it. There are plenty to encounter irl, I assure you. =) And if you're talking just Gaia, the ED-P is a good place to start. This is a 'Neo-Communist, Communist and Socialist' guild (although that first one may be subject to change). I can't even believe you listed racists as an example; communists and socialists simply must not stand for that. Also.. biological evolution metaphor is quite irrelevant imo. Ah, But do you ever go into deep philosophical conversations with them on a daily basis in public? Just how many of you are actually active in the ED-P section? As stated prior, Isolation breeds stagnancy. Barring them from entry does nothing to change their minds. What one must do is offer a hand to them to teach and help, Not bar them to wallow in ignorance. Should my message be muddled, I'm a staunch advocate for equality and freedom. As I said before, If I tried to explain the concept using a metaphor relating to Capitalism, It would be decried as blasphemy and not even considered. My position stands: An guild open to all ideologies is the best of guilds. That is not to stay that the majority cannot be left-leaning, Or that the moderators and primary managers cannot be left-leaning. In fact, The guild may show favor to leftist politics. So long as it is open to everyone, I consider it a resounding success.
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Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:34 pm
Comrade Kotka This is a 'Neo-Communist, Communist and Socialist' guild (although that first one may be subject to change). I got invited to a Nazi guild.
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Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 3:55 pm
Comrade Mann Comrade Kotka This is a 'Neo-Communist, Communist and Socialist' guild (although that first one may be subject to change). I got invited to a Nazi guild. It doesn't altogether look good when the Nazis are more tolerant than communists...
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Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 3:57 pm
Demon Kagerou Comrade Mann Comrade Kotka This is a 'Neo-Communist, Communist and Socialist' guild (although that first one may be subject to change). I got invited to a Nazi guild. It doesn't altogether look good when the Nazis are more tolerant than communists... Or even better when a supposed Troll actually makes a good point as to why this guild shouldn't be exclusive.
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Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 6:21 pm
Comrade Mann Demon Kagerou Comrade Mann Comrade Kotka This is a 'Neo-Communist, Communist and Socialist' guild (although that first one may be subject to change). I got invited to a Nazi guild. It doesn't altogether look good when the Nazis are more tolerant than communists... Or even better when a supposed Troll actually makes a good point as to why this guild shouldn't be exclusive. I go away for a day and a half and... You claim "What Is To Be Done?" has influenced you a lot. Quote: “Freedom of criticism” is undoubtedly the most fashionable slogan at the present time, and the one most frequently employed in the controversies between socialists and democrats in all countries. At first sight, nothing would appear to be more strange than the solemn appeals to freedom of criticism made by one of the parties to the dispute. Have voices been raised in the advanced parties against the constitutional law of the majority of European countries which guarantees freedom to science and scientific investigation? “Something must be wrong here,” will be the comment of the onlooker who has heard this fashionable slogan repeated at every turn but has not yet penetrated the essence of the disagreement among the disputants; evidently this slogan is one of the conventional phrases which, like nicknames, become legitimised by use, and become almost generic terms.” In fact, it is no secret for anyone that two trends have taken form in present-day international Social-Democracy. The conflict between these trends now flares up in a bright flame and now dies down and smoulders under the ashes of imposing “truce resolutions”. The essence of the “new” trend, which adopts a “critical” attitude towards “obsolete dogmatic” Marxism, has been clearly enough presented by Bernstein and demonstrated by Millerand. [and 'Comrade' Mann!] [...] “Freedom” is a grand word, but under the banner of freedom for industry the most predatory wars were waged, under the banner of freedom of labour, the working people were robbed. The modern use of the term “freedom of criticism” contains the same inherent falsehood. Those who are really convinced that they have made progress in science would not demand freedom for the new views to continue side by side with the old, but the substitution of the new views for the old. The cry heard today, “Long live freedom of criticism”, is too strongly reminiscent of the fable of the empty barrel. This captures, in essence, the conflict here. No doubt they will rush to say "but we aren't capittalist, we just call for equal time with them!" If this were true, you would be seeking clarity within socialism. But you don't. You wish to sow confusion, letting everyone in here. Making this a new subforum for the ED-P now that EDP regs has died. Anyone who wishes to talk to defenders of capitalism will do so. They will go into ED-P, and they will talk to opponents IRL. I remember in a post a few weeks back you accused me of wanting to force people to go into ED-P, and yet you bald-facedly want to force people to encounter ED-P here! I will close with this quote, also from What is to be done: Quote: We are marching in a compact group along a precipitous and difficult path, firmly holding each other by the hand. We are surrounded on all sides by enemies, and we have to advance almost constantly under their fire. We have combined, by a freely adopted decision, for the purpose of fighting the enemy, and not of retreating into the neighbouring marsh, the inhabitants of which, from the very outset, have reproached us with having separated ourselves into an exclusive group and with having chosen the path of struggle instead of the path of conciliation. And now some among us begin to cry out: Let us go into the marsh! And when we begin to shame them, they retort: What backward people you are! Are you not ashamed to deny us the liberty to invite you to take a better road! Oh, yes, gentlemen! You are free not only to invite us, but to go yourselves wherever you will, even into the marsh. In fact, we think that the marsh is your proper place, and we are prepared to render you every assistance to get there. Only let go of our hands, don’t clutch at us and don’t besmirch the grand word freedom, for we too are “free” to go where we please, free to fight not only against the marsh, but also against those who are turning towards the marsh!
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Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 7:48 pm
Gracchvs I'm real tired of your flawed appeals to authority that don't work on me. But regardless here I'll bite. Quote: (Gracchvs returning to his old copy paste days) While yes I do like "What is to be done?" I see no real argument against it in that first quote beyond some comparisons to some other "freedom of x". Maybe you ignorantly feel all Marxists should bow before the right appeals to authority I do not. Quote: If this were true, you would be seeking clarity within socialism. But you don't. You wish to sow confusion, letting everyone in here. Making this a new subforum for the ED-P now that EDP regs has died. Please Gracchvs. Stop making the strawmen you so love to declare others make for you. There are a number of people from EDP I would not like to see in here. In fact I'll list them off for you as examples and I'll point this post every time you say something so goddamn ridiculous and stupid as this: Omnileech, Unami, Supremus Ducemus, LessThanLiz, Wendigo, Akhenation of Man, and a lot lot more. Perhaps you should have given so evidence that's better than ******** ridiculous logical fallacies? Quote: They will go into ED-P, and they will talk to opponents IRL. And how many of them are there just lurking around making threads about Capitalism? EDP is not your personal venue to go find and argue with Capitalists! What extreme ******** arrogance you have if you believe EDP is your own retarded Communist playpen to gain experience in! This isn't how ******** s**t works, be ******** rational or step to the side and let others lead! No onto the Lenin quotes Quote: In fact, we think that the marsh is your proper place, and we are prepared to render you every assistance to get there. Only let go of our hands, don’t clutch at us and don’t besmirch the grand word freedom, for we too are “free” to go where we please, free to fight not only against the marsh, but also against those who are turning towards the marsh! You're too afraid of and concerned with the"marsh" Gracchvs. You should learn to swim anyways an avoid such a ridiculous thing all together. Even so let me toss some quotes at you too since we're doing this again. Quote: The Georgian who is neglectful of this aspect of the question, or who carelessly flings about accusations of "nationalist-socialism" violates, in substance, the interests of proletarian class solidarity, for nothing holds up the development and strengthening of proletarian class solidarity so much as national injustice; "offended" nationals are not sensitive to anything so much as to the feeling of equality and the violation of this equality, if only through negligence or jest- to the violation of that equality by their proletarian comrades. And yet you would start a witchhunt for Fascists and kick people for vaguely sounding like they could support Fascism. I suppose you would have kicked Lenin then. But better yet you should take this next quote to heart. Quote: They have even absolutely failed to understand Marx's plain statements that in times of revolution the utmost flexibility is demanded Or better yet ambiguous appeals to authority.
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Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:12 pm
Quote: While yes I do like "What is to be done?" I see no real argument against it in that first quote beyond some comparisons to some other "freedom of x". Maybe you ignorantly feel all Marxists should bow before the right appeals to authority I do not. Nah, I was showing your gross inconsistency, not making an appeal to authority. I was showing how you do not act like someone who has been influenced by that book. Nothing else could be taken from that. You claim to be influenced by that book, and I guess you must have been. In the negative... Quote: Please Gracchvs. Stop making the strawmen you so love to declare others make for you. There are a number of people from EDP I would not like to see in here. In fact I'll list them off for you as examples and I'll point this post every time you say something so goddamn ridiculous and stupid as this: Omnileech, Unami, Supremus Ducemus, LessThanLiz, Wendigo, Akhenation of Man, and a lot lot more. Ahuh. And yet you still advocate having your other friemds come in or remain here. What evidence do I need other than what you are saying? You want advocates of an alien ideology coming into this guild. You were around when it was made, why didn't you call The Communist and Capitalist Sparring Ground if that is what you wanted so much? Quote: And how many of them are there just lurking around making threads about Capitalism? Don't know, don't care and don't think it is highly relevent. Quote: EDP is not your personal venue to go find and argue with Capitalists? Don't know why that is a question, but I think the answer is yes? as in 'it isn't.' Quote: What extreme ******** arrogance you have if you believe EDP is your own retarded Communist playpen to gain experience in. Nah, I get commie experience HERE. I and I don't want to get capitalists in half the random engounters. Dur. Quote: This isn't how ******** s**t works, be ******** rational or step to the side and let others lead. I am being quiet rational. And it is nice to see that you think I am in any leadership position, because last I knew... I didn't have mod status, and the guild was flooded with people who have a visceral hatred of both myself and my politics. Could I please get my 'leader' hat nao? Quote: You're too afraid of and concerned with the"marsh" Gracchvs. You should learn to swim anyways an avoid such a ridiculous thing all together. Nah, I'll stay up here where it is nice and dry. I'll let you lot stay soggy in the marsh, getting pricked by all those mangroves and s**t, getting covered in mud and filth. Quote: Quote: The Georgian who is neglectful of this aspect of the question, or who carelessly flings about accusations of "nationalist-socialism" violates, in substance, the interests of proletarian class solidarity, for nothing holds up the development and strengthening of proletarian class solidarity so much as national injustice; "offended" nationals are not sensitive to anything so much as to the feeling of equality and the violation of this equality, if only through negligence or jest- to the violation of that equality by their proletarian comrades. And yet you would start a witchhunt for Fascists and kick people for vaguely sounding like they could support Fascism. I suppose you would have kicked Lenin then. And immidiately preceding that we find: Quote: What is important for the proletarian? For the proletarian it is not only important, it is absolutely essential that he should be assured that the non-Russians place the greatest possible trust in the proletarian class struggle. What is needed to ensure this? Not merely formal equality. In one way or another, by one's attitude or by concessions, it is necessary to compensate the non-Russian for the lack of trust, for the suspicion and the insults to which the government of the "dominant" nation subjected them in the past. I think it is unnecessary to explain this to Bolsheviks, to Communists, in greater detail. And I think that in the present instance, as far as the Georgian nation is concerned, we have a typical case in which a genuinely proletarian attitude makes profound caution, thoughtfulness and a readiness to compromise a matter of necessity for us. Huh. Doesn't sound like fascism at all. In fact, together, the quote I provide here, and the one you provided would seem pretty good in establishing a decent guild policy on nationalism, and would help serve as a benchmark for some fun little witch hunts. Quote: Quote: They have even absolutely failed to understand Marx's plain statements that in times of revolution the utmost flexibility is demandedAnd in context? What was said? This was a wonderful rant about the sterility of the Social-Democrats. Notice in all the talks we have had about the revolution i have always been the one calling for flexibility? Saying that we cannot plan things out now, and that what is needed before any revolution can happen is a change in consciousness, and not a sterile adaptation to current consciousness? So yeah.
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