|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 7:38 am
ENVER
HOXHA!Quote: Human rights groups in South Korea say North Korea has stepped up executions of Christians, some of them in public. The communist country, the world's most closed society, views religion as a major threat. Only the founder of the country, Kim Il-sung, and his son, Kim Jong-il, may be worshipped, in mass public displays of fervour. Despite the persecutions, it is thought up to 30,000 North Koreans may practise Christianity secretly in their homes. A report by a number of South Korean groups highlights one particular case of a woman allegedly executed in public last month, in a northern town close to the Chinese border. She was accused of distributing Bibles, spying for South Korea and the United States and helping to organise dissidents. Her parents, husband, and children were sent to a prison camp. Such reports are hard to verify, but North Korea is known to be intolerant of religion - it views any form of alternative social organisation as a competitor for its own, religion-like ideology. The US government says just owning a Bible in North Korea may be a cause for torture and disappearance. Pyongyang's position appears to have hardened on everything from human rights to defence policy and international relations in the last year or so. It is thought this may be a way to shore up the government through Mr Kim's illness and the process of anointing his youngest son, Kim Jong-un, as North Korea's next leader. This makes me soooo happy ^.^
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 11:12 am
You would find that pleasing, Tank...
However, killing people who hold on to such beliefs only creates martyrs and strengthens public opinion against communism. It has the opposite effect that you intend.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 11:26 am
I agree with mere - though it's my understanding that NK does allow *some* churches to operate. It depends on the character of the prostlytizing really - and you're not going to here s**t about that in the US media. For example, Hugo Chavez kicked out all of the "700 club" missionaries after that one crazy guy called for his assassination - being as its only logical that his missionaries could be used to that end.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 12:27 pm
Its okay to kill people with differing opinions?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 12:30 pm
Geisterstadt Its okay to kill people with differing opinions? Not at all. Ever.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 12:41 pm
Lady Merewyn Geisterstadt Its okay to kill people with differing opinions? Not at all. Ever. Oh god... Let me get my reply to the clone-thread he posted in ED-P... Gracchvs What is only touched on in the article, and what Tank glosses over in his Hoxagasm is that these people are not being persecuted for their religion, but rather that their religion serves as a focus for counter-revolutionary tendencies and these people are being killed/otherwise punished for that. it isn't a simple "kill christians" thing, but a more complex question of national security being undermined by groups organising under the the banner of religion. That the Pyongyang Stalinists are going about this in an absolutely ******** manner (which should be condemned for stupidity if nothing else) does not change the basic fact that this is persecution of counter-revolutionaries who happen to claim Christianity and not of Christians. Gracchvs pockybot SoViEtTaNkT34 Since Christianity and the like are viewed as ideological enemies of the State Executions are normal. Christians especially tho have been having a 'Time of peace" under Kim Jong il with him allowing Christianity into the nation (however its state monitered). Another interesting part is the fact that the whole entire family was deported which normally hasnt been used since Kim Jong il took power or close to that time frame. What if it was Jews? Would that be time to celebrate? I notice a lot of even "liberals and lefties" on here advocate the elimination of Islam and Christianity...yet they get awfully silent when you say "what about Judaism". I am absolutely sickened by the way China and NK treat Christians, other religious people and political dissenters. I doubt Tank or any other 'hard' communist would care what religion it is. The fact is, most religions will mobilise themselves against counter-revolution, and those that do will pay. But to say that the whole religion should suffer is vile. Not only does it advocate killing people for holding a belief, but it provised moral support to the persecuted. The problem is, people identify 'specific church is lucus for counter-revolutionary activities and is crushed' to mean 'all members of that religion are persecuted.' That is just bullshit. My knowledge of NK is sketchy at best, but you bring up China, which I know considerably more about. Those 'political dissenters' you mention... That isn't just holding an oppinion contrary to the state. There is actually a lot of room for that in the PRC. The thing is that these groups are seditious and call for the destruction of the PRC, and mobilise to effect that. I would like to know if you can bring up one 'religion' that is 'persecuted' in China that isn't a front group for counter-revolutionary activists.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 12:43 pm
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 12:49 pm
Wow, you're a ******** idiot.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 12:49 pm
Gracchvs Lady Merewyn Geisterstadt Its okay to kill people with differing opinions? Not at all. Ever. Oh god... Let me get my reply to the clone-thread he posted in ED-P... Gracchvs What is only touched on in the article, and what Tank glosses over in his Hoxagasm is that these people are not being persecuted for their religion, but rather that their religion serves as a focus for counter-revolutionary tendencies and these people are being killed/otherwise punished for that. it isn't a simple "kill christians" thing, but a more complex question of national security being undermined by groups organising under the the banner of religion. That the Pyongyang Stalinists are going about this in an absolutely ******** manner (which should be condemned for stupidity if nothing else) does not change the basic fact that this is persecution of counter-revolutionaries who happen to claim Christianity and not of Christians. Gracchvs pockybot SoViEtTaNkT34 Since Christianity and the like are viewed as ideological enemies of the State Executions are normal. Christians especially tho have been having a 'Time of peace" under Kim Jong il with him allowing Christianity into the nation (however its state monitered). Another interesting part is the fact that the whole entire family was deported which normally hasnt been used since Kim Jong il took power or close to that time frame. What if it was Jews? Would that be time to celebrate? I notice a lot of even "liberals and lefties" on here advocate the elimination of Islam and Christianity...yet they get awfully silent when you say "what about Judaism". I am absolutely sickened by the way China and NK treat Christians, other religious people and political dissenters. I doubt Tank or any other 'hard' communist would care what religion it is. The fact is, most religions will mobilise themselves against counter-revolution, and those that do will pay. But to say that the whole religion should suffer is vile. Not only does it advocate killing people for holding a belief, but it provised moral support to the persecuted. The problem is, people identify 'specific church is lucus for counter-revolutionary activities and is crushed' to mean 'all members of that religion are persecuted.' That is just bullshit. My knowledge of NK is sketchy at best, but you bring up China, which I know considerably more about. Those 'political dissenters' you mention... That isn't just holding an oppinion contrary to the state. There is actually a lot of room for that in the PRC. The thing is that these groups are seditious and call for the destruction of the PRC, and mobilise to effect that. I would like to know if you can bring up one 'religion' that is 'persecuted' in China that isn't a front group for counter-revolutionary activists. Yeah, that makes sense. It seems like a sketchy line between them, but I am not from that country nor do I know that situation. I also think we can do without public executions unless there was some provable action (i.e. acts against the state in a violent way). But then, there are people all along the spectrum on that one I would suppose too.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 3:22 pm
Why is this a good thing?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 3:46 pm
Mister Wilde Why is this a good thing? Killing religious people makes Tank happy! mrgreen
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 3:55 pm
Gracchvs Mister Wilde Why is this a good thing? Killing religious people makes Tank happy! mrgreen Why would a Stalinist's happiness matter to a Trotskyist like you?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 4:36 pm
AnarchoPhiliac Gracchvs Mister Wilde Why is this a good thing? Killing religious people makes Tank happy! mrgreen Why would a Stalinist's happiness matter to a Trotskyist like you? Because it is really cute?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 1:03 pm
Gracchvs AnarchoPhiliac Gracchvs Mister Wilde Why is this a good thing? Killing religious people makes Tank happy! mrgreen Why would a Stalinist's happiness matter to a Trotskyist like you? Because it is really cute? D'awwww... heart @Tank: Ya know, while this is very good news to my ears (eyes), as Merewyn said before the only outcome of this would be a stronger dislike for communism and a deeper feeling of faith for Christians around the world by claiming that the NKorean Christians were martyrs. It sucks, but it's true.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Miza_Radioaktiv Vice Captain
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 1:19 pm
SoViEtTaNkT34 ENVER
HOXHA!Quote: Human rights groups in South Korea say North Korea has stepped up executions of Christians, some of them in public. The communist country, the world's most closed society, views religion as a major threat. Only the founder of the country, Kim Il-sung, and his son, Kim Jong-il, may be worshipped, in mass public displays of fervour. Despite the persecutions, it is thought up to 30,000 North Koreans may practise Christianity secretly in their homes. A report by a number of South Korean groups highlights one particular case of a woman allegedly executed in public last month, in a northern town close to the Chinese border. She was accused of distributing Bibles, spying for South Korea and the United States and helping to organise dissidents. Her parents, husband, and children were sent to a prison camp. Such reports are hard to verify, but North Korea is known to be intolerant of religion - it views any form of alternative social organisation as a competitor for its own, religion-like ideology. The US government says just owning a Bible in North Korea may be a cause for torture and disappearance. Pyongyang's position appears to have hardened on everything from human rights to defence policy and international relations in the last year or so. It is thought this may be a way to shore up the government through Mr Kim's illness and the process of anointing his youngest son, Kim Jong-un, as North Korea's next leader. This makes me soooo happy ^.^ Making sure its not another Iranian Revoultion of the 1970's.......I see.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
