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Formerly called the NCS, this is a place for communists and socialists to talk about communism and socialism. 

Tags: Marxism, Communism, Socialism, Political, Left 

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Le Pere Duchesne
Captain

Beloved Prophet

PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 2:16 am


Posted in the 'educational posts' thread I have this:

{1} Gracchvs
DaidojiKensuke
A Deformed Workers' State. Couldn't it be said that a Deformed Workers' State is a predictable outcome to attempting to use 'rural idiots' (Chinese peasants/Russian serfs) as the foundation of a Communist revolution instead of proper proletariat?
The Russian revolution was conducted by the urban working class which, while small, was concentrated in some of the biggest factories in the world. This tiny working class was able to make the revolution and lead the peasantry during the civil war, but after being bled white during that civil war, and with the collapse of industry... The working class was crushed and physically dispersed. As this happened, a bureaucracy formed which was able to slowly take necessary functions into its own hands until it dominated the whole state.

The problem with Russia is that it was dependant on the revlutions in western europe (principally Germany) which were defeated and in some cases even betrayed by the above mentioned bureaucracy.

China is a different story. With the Long March, the CCP cut itself off from the working class along the coast and relied on the peasantry. As such there was not only no possibility for workers democracy, but just the opposite: they had to crush it.


DaidojiKensuke
Or by trying to essentially 'cheat the system' by trying to bypass the Capitalist and Socialist stages of history?

It isn't cheating the system. The problem is that the conditions for a full evelopment of capitalism like in France and England is missing because capitalism has entered from the outside. Thus we see an artificial native capitalist class that is dependant on the other big capitalist countries and is tied to the semi-feudal nobility and clergy. It is unable to make a revolution like those seen in England or France. As such, only the working class is revolutionary, so it is left up to the tiny working classes of these countries to conduct the revolution in the interests of the capitalists. The thing is, some of the measures at this point trancend capitalism. (example: land to the toilers. This takes land away from the bourgeoisiefied land-lords and the land-owning capitalists in order to give it to the peasantry, but this not only takes land awy from a section of the capitalist class, but it impacts others through the mortgages they hold and other debts they owe, thus the whole capitalist order in these coutnries is called into question by this one act).

Thus the revolution passes over into the sociaist revolution. The problem is that while these countries are the most likely to have a revolution, they are unable to actually make socialism on their own. They need to hold out until a revolution in one of the advanced capitalist countries happens so they can recieve material, economic and technical help from the more advanced country.


DaidojiKensuke
The Chinese' peculiar brand of "Capitalism" at least appears to be driven the Legalist view of commerce as greedy, immoral, and essential. It almost a cultural license, perhaps even the expectation, for Chinese merchants/Capitalists to cheat and cut corners wherever possible.


I remember reading this really cute quote one time by this minor CCP official. Whan asked why the CCP was in charge of a country with heavy capitalist investment he said it was so there would be little time spent building the revolution when they needed to kick the capitalists out.

Now, as cute as that is, it isn't likely to happen (sorry Dermy, but bureaucratic self-reform is bullshit, re: Poland). What seems to be the case is that the heads of the CCP have decided that capitalism is what is needed for China to be great, and so they are bringing in capitalism, but they have learned from the mistakes of Gorby: Do it slowly, keep control, and DO NOT let go of power.

Currently, no matter what the aims of the CCP leadership at the moment, it is still a deformed workers state and should be defended by all communists against imperialist attack from without and capitalist counter-revolution from within. That the CCP is itself preparing the counter-revolution itself, the only way to trully defend the PRC is to oust the Stalinist bureaucracy from power through a working class political revolution.

That is pretty much a complete exposition of Trotskyism, by the way...


There. I don't know how anyone can possibly misunderstand that.

If you have questions about it, don't hesitate to ask. If something was unclear, then I will clarify.

Otherwise, take your bullshit strawman objections and gtfo.
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 10:25 pm


Okay... UH... >_> Explain this to me like I'm five... >_>

Herobane

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MCS: Marxism, Communism, Socialism

 
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