The New Propositons | Page 1 | MCS: Marxism, Communism, Socialism | Guild Forums

Intermundia

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Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 1:39 am

Okay, I decided that there should be an organized list of the talked about propositions that we will vote on in the coming month. What ive collected so far is:

1.) Revival of The NCS community.
a.) NCS community name
b.) Recruitment and Propaganda Program
c.) Qualifications for guild acceptance

2.) Revision of the Mission Statement on the NCS Homepage
3.) New NCS Banners
4.) [Removed]
5.) [Removed]
6.) New Constitution
7.) Organized dictionary of Marxist terms abbreviated
8.) [Removed]
9.) Conversion of the NCS guild Into the NCS community.
10.) ☭
WOOT

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:56 am

New constitution.

An organised dictionary of both words/concepts peculiar to marxism and shorthand we may use (S1C being one I thought up today)...

And organised elector roll.

Anything else?

Le Pere Duchesne
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Intermundia

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Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:06 pm

With the revival of the NCS community i think there needs to be a propaganda/recruitment program as too get the broad lefties in their. And i think it needs to be discussed how left we want these people. I believe you touched on that earlier Gracchvs.

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:53 pm

I propose that we give Gracchvs no more power out of the obvious fear that he will abuse it.

Director Mann

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Le Pere Duchesne
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Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 5:08 pm

Comrade Rob

With the revival of the NCS community i think there needs to be a propaganda/recruitment program as too get the broad lefties in their. And i think it needs to be discussed how left we want these people. I believe you touched on that earlier Gracchvs.

I was thinking they have to be very left, but not specifically socialist.
They may just want a strong welfare state with good civil liberties and s**t.

I guess the point for the NCS Community is that it is somewhere where we seek to recruit people from and so we want the kind of people we may be able to recruit, or who are at least very good liberals.

ALSO!

Gracchvs' Draft Constitution

Proposed NCS Guild Constitution:

Preamble:
The world we live in is conditioned by one central fact: The destruction of the Soviet Union, the first successful proletarian revolution.
As such, working class and socialist ideology has been thrown back all over the world, though in an uneven fashion.
This means the rise of non-Marxist socialist tendencie: From the rise of Green Radicalism and Anarchoid tendencies in the Imperialist Centres to National-Populists in the colonial/neo-colonial world such as the Zapatistas and the 'Bolivarian Revolution' in Latin America.

A pressing need is felt for clarification on the numerous demands and programmes propounded by these socialist [and in some cases not even that!] tendencies.

Therefore, this guild has been created to collect all the socialists and communists on Gaia Online in order to facilitate the exchange of knowledge and help achieve clarification on numerous issues. This is not a party, and as such no ideological demands are made of the membership other than a commitment to a socialism.

This guild is a democratic guild. The guild will hold elections on a regular basis for as long as the guild is active.

1. Rights of the Membership
i. Members will not have their conduct in other guilds or forums on Gaia brought against them except as such conduct harms the image of the guild as set out in [2.i.CONDUCT]
ii. Members have the right to conduct in FREE, PUBLIC ELECTIONS to decide the leadership of the guild in a manner set forth in this constitution or an ammendment to this constitution.
iii. Members have access to a subforum dedicated to non-political talk. In this subforum the membership may start and post in thread on a wide range of topics from personal life, to television to taste in music and computer games.
iv. Members have the right to not be banned or kicked from the guild without charge, or for frivilous charges.
v. Members will only be banned as set out in 2.iv through 2.vii.
vi. Banned members can appeal a banning. The appeal must be made through an identical PM sent to each of the Central Committee members (This is to prevent one members recieving the appeal and ignoring it). The Central Committee will vote on the appeal. If the appeal is allowed, the appeal will be put before the membership of the guild.

2. Duties of the Membership
i. Within the guild no member will flame or troll another member. Any trolling of one member by another conducted outside NCS Guild and the NCS's official chatroom [linked in a sticky] will not be held against them.
ii. Members will not make baseless accusations, and any accusations must be acompanied by proof of some kind.
iii. Accusations of a political nature [ex. "You are a stalinist!"] must acompany proof[a guote of a post, a screencap of a post or communiscation of another kind] of said accusation. Evidence for a POLITICAL accusation MAY come from another guild, forum or site. Members will not
iv. Members WILL NOT act or communicate in a manner that is deemed SEXIST, RACIST, NATIONALIST or SECTARIAN. If the member if found to have acted as such they will be warned. On a second offence the offending member will be banned from the guild for a period of one (1) week. SUbsequent infringements willl result in a permanent ban from the guild.
v. If a banned member is found to be using a mule to remain active in the guild, the mule will be banned, and the ban on the member will become permanent.
vi. If a member ceases to adhear to socialist ideology, they should leave of their own accord. If such a member becomes distruptive they will be kicked subject to a vote of the Central Committee.
vii. If a member shows sympathy for any form of fascism or reaction they will be banned on the spot. Any such bannings will be accompanied by a post in a stickie with a quote of the offending post/s, and an explanation for the ban. If the membership of the guild feel that the Mod has misunderstood the post (not overreacted, but misunderstood) a vote will be taken and the offending member will be invited to rejoin after a week of voting.

3. Special Committees
i. The guild will create a number of Special Committees which will vary based on the availability of the membershitp. Each Committee will contain five (5) members. No less and no more.
ii. These Special Committees will be tasked with producing a document on the committees subject over a period of a month. It MUST be completed.
iii. Each Special Committee will have one (1) and only one member of the Central Committee. The number of committees in activity at any one time cannot, therefore exceed the number of members on the Central Committee

4. Elections
i. Every member has the right to register for each election.
ii. To register, each member must post at least five (5) political posts within the month prior to the election.
iii. Elections will be conducted in the following manner:
The election is announced one (1) month prior to the date of the election.
The election will last for one week.
There will be a stickie thread made for the purposes of the election.
Each member has a number of votes equal to the number of Central Committee positions in the election.
Each member will vote for members that they want to participate on the central committee based on their POLITICS and ACTIVITY
Each vote counts for a number of points ranging from 1 through to the number of committee members. Only one vote from each member can count for a given number of points.
The member who recieves the most points is elected Chairperson of the guild. The rest of the positions on the Central Committee will be filled by the members who recieved the next highest amounts of voting points.
In the case of a tie Those already elected vote from the tied candidates for the position.
iv. Elections can be held NO LESS than three (3) months and no more than thirteen (13) months after the last.
v. At any point where an election would be valid the membership of the guild can sign a petition with more than one third (1/3) of the current active membership for a new election. The new election must be announced within the week.
vi. The results of all past elections is to be kept in a stikie for this purpost.

5. Central Committee
i. The central Committee is the exective body of the guild. It will be made up of between three (3) and eight ( cool members. This will be decided one month prior to the elections based on guild activity.
ii. Each member of the Central Committee will act as MODERATOR of the NCS Guild and ANY OTHER GUILDS the NCS makes.

Any other ideas people have for it?

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 5:32 pm

that actually sounds pretty good.

Louis-Auguste Robespierre

Gracchvs' Draft Constitution

Proposed NCS Guild Constitution:

Preamble:
The world we live in is conditioned by one central fact: The destruction of the Soviet Union, the first successful proletarian revolution.
As such, working class and socialist ideology has been thrown back all over the world, though in an uneven fashion.
This means the rise of non-Marxist socialist tendencie: From the rise of Green Radicalism and Anarchoid tendencies in the Imperialist Centres to National-Populists in the colonial/neo-colonial world such as the Zapatistas and the 'Bolivarian Revolution' in Latin America.

A pressing need is felt for clarification on the numerous demands and programmes propounded by these socialist [and in some cases not even that!] tendencies.

Therefore, this guild has been created to collect all the socialists and communists on Gaia Online in order to facilitate the exchange of knowledge and help achieve clarification on numerous issues. This is not a party, and as such no ideological demands are made of the membership other than a commitment to a socialism.

This guild is a democratic guild. The guild will hold elections on a regular basis for as long as the guild is active.

1. Rights of the Membership
i. Members will not have their conduct in other guilds or forums on Gaia brought against them except as such conduct harms the image of the guild as set out in [2.i.CONDUCT]
ii. Members have the right to conduct in FREE, PUBLIC ELECTIONS to decide the leadership of the guild in a manner set forth in this constitution or an ammendment to this constitution.
iii. Members have access to a subforum dedicated to non-political talk. In this subforum the membership may start and post in thread on a wide range of topics from personal life, to television to taste in music and computer games.
iv. Members have the right to not be banned or kicked from the guild without charge, or for frivilous charges.
v. Members will only be banned as set out in 2.iv through 2.vii.
vi. Banned members can appeal a banning. The appeal must be made through an identical PM sent to each of the Central Committee members (This is to prevent one members recieving the appeal and ignoring it). The Central Committee will vote on the appeal. If the appeal is allowed, the appeal will be put before the membership of the guild.

2. Duties of the Membership
i. Within the guild no member will flame or troll another member. Any trolling of one member by another conducted outside NCS Guild and the NCS's official chatroom [linked in a sticky] will not be held against them.
ii. Members will not make baseless accusations, and any accusations must be acompanied by proof of some kind.
iii. Accusations of a political nature [ex. "You are a stalinist!"] must acompany proof[a guote of a post, a screencap of a post or communiscation of another kind] of said accusation. Evidence for a POLITICAL accusation MAY come from another guild, forum or site. Members will not
iv. Members WILL NOT act or communicate in a manner that is deemed SEXIST, RACIST, NATIONALIST or SECTARIAN. If the member if found to have acted as such they will be warned. On a second offence the offending member will be banned from the guild for a period of one (1) week. SUbsequent infringements willl result in a permanent ban from the guild.
v. If a banned member is found to be using a mule to remain active in the guild, the mule will be banned, and the ban on the member will become permanent.
vi. If a member ceases to adhear to socialist ideology, they should leave of their own accord. If such a member becomes distruptive they will be kicked subject to a vote of the Central Committee.
vii. If a member shows sympathy for any form of fascism or reaction they will be banned on the spot. Any such bannings will be accompanied by a post in a stickie with a quote of the offending post/s, and an explanation for the ban. If the membership of the guild feel that the Mod has misunderstood the post (not overreacted, but misunderstood) a vote will be taken and the offending member will be invited to rejoin after a week of voting.

3. Special Committees
i. The guild will create a number of Special Committees which will vary based on the availability of the membershitp. Each Committee will contain five (5) members. No less and no more.
ii. These Special Committees will be tasked with producing a document on the committees subject over a period of a month. It MUST be completed.
iii. Each Special Committee will have one (1) and only one member of the Central Committee. The number of committees in activity at any one time cannot, therefore exceed the number of members on the Central Committee

4. Elections
i. Every member has the right to register for each election.
ii. To register, each member must post at least five (5) political posts within the month prior to the election.
iii. Elections will be conducted in the following manner:
The election is announced one (1) month prior to the date of the election.
The election will last for one week.
There will be a stickie thread made for the purposes of the election.
Each member has a number of votes equal to the number of Central Committee positions in the election.
Each member will vote for members that they want to participate on the central committee based on their POLITICS and ACTIVITY
Each vote counts for a number of points ranging from 1 through to the number of committee members. Only one vote from each member can count for a given number of points.
The member who recieves the most points is elected Chairperson of the guild. The rest of the positions on the Central Committee will be filled by the members who recieved the next highest amounts of voting points.
In the case of a tie Those already elected vote from the tied candidates for the position.
iv. Elections can be held NO LESS than three (3) months and no more than thirteen (13) months after the last.
v. At any point where an election would be valid the membership of the guild can sign a petition with more than one third (1/3) of the current active membership for a new election. The new election must be announced within the week.
vi. The results of all past elections is to be kept in a stikie for this purpost.

5. Central Committee
i. The central Committee is the exective body of the guild. It will be made up of between three (3) and eight ( cool members. This will be decided one month prior to the elections based on guild activity.
ii. Each member of the Central Committee will act as MODERATOR of the NCS Guild and ANY OTHER GUILDS the NCS makes.

Any other ideas people have for it?

Grin de Fiend

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Herobane

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Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 5:42 pm

Comrade Rob

With the revival of the NCS community i think there needs to be a propaganda/recruitment program as too get the broad lefties in their. And i think it needs to be discussed how left we want these people. I believe you touched on that earlier Gracchvs.

*volunteers*

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 6:04 pm

I think a good thing to add to the forum would be a list of known Fascists alphabetically by screen name. Including both Fascists kicked from here (as it said that they would be banned on the spot) and ones in other guilds known to be Fascist.

Herobane

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Le Pere Duchesne
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Beloved Prophet

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Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 6:23 pm

Herobane

I think a good thing to add to the forum would be a list of known Fascists alphabetically by screen name. Including both Fascists kicked from here (as it said that they would be banned on the spot) and ones in other guilds known to be Fascist.

Not quiet the same, but I did put this motion forward previously:

Louis-Auguste Robespierre

[Motion] Motion 1:
That all crew log who they invite/admit into the guild into a specially prepared thread.
The OP will contain the member's name and their admission date. After their admission date will be included their status in the guild: Active, inactive, banned, quit in square brackets. Inactive members will be listed as Inactive;Guild or Inactive;Account with a date of their last post here or last post here and login respectively. Banned and Quit status will also have the date of their banning or quit. If the ban is due to inactivity, that will be listed, otherwise just banned. Any mules the account has will be listed under the main account in parentheses:

Bob_Smith :in 1/jan/01 [ban;inactive]
ML_Gore :in 1/jan/01 [inacctive;account post: 18/jun/07 login;18/jun/07] TAGGED FOR KEEPS: EMAILED REQUEST TO REMAIN MEMBER
MManson :in 4/jan/01 [inactive;guild post:12/oct/08] TAGGED FOR BANNING
(PainlessSuicide :in 12/nov/07 [active])
GygaxzGhost :in 5/feb/01 [inactive;account post 4/mar/08 login: 4/mar/08] TAGGED FOR DEIFICATION AND WORSHIP

[Inactive;guild] are those that have not posted here in three months, and [inactive;account] are those that have not logged in in 6 monthhs.
As we see above, Bob_Smith has requested (either through his own volition, or as a reply to a guild email) to remain a member despite his inactivity.

As easily seen, accounts can be tagged, for some reasons. In Gygaxz' case, he is so awesome he needs to be worshipped. In MManson's case, he is tagged for banning because the account is active on the site, while he has a mule that is active in the guild.
In any case, that was just a demonstration of my intention. The banning and such, for whatever reason, is to be voted on another time.

This is not to give any notion of superiority for those who came earlier than others, but to maintain data of activity that all can easily access, so that purges can be done properly, if we so vote, and so we can get a better grasp of activity within the guild.
[/motion]

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 8:42 pm

Regarding Gracchvs proposal for a new constitution I have a few concerns:

Firstly, there are several typos which ought to be fixed.

I don't see why the Bolivarian revolution or the Zapistas are singled out - I would strike out the mentioning of any extant movement simply to avoid conflict and because it clearly biases our program against these 2 trends which, in their coalitions, have segments that support and adhere to the teachings of Marx, Engels, Lenin et al. I would also point out that the preamble is historically inaccurate since anarchic and Green/socialist trends existed well before even the mid 1970s. Couldn't we just substitute 20th century catchwords like: reformist, opportunist, ultra-left, and petty-bourgeois?

I would also amend the second potion of Duties of Membership in the following general ways (it's your document).

- accusations deemed to be baseless will receive a warning for a member of the central committee, subsequent accusations will result proceedings to ban.

- Terms like "nationalist" and "sectarian" are very difficult to define and should be stricken. I also see no reason to ban the member for only one week if they are racist or sexist.

- I would strike the word "reaction" from the portion on fascism, since again, this is a term which is widely open to interpretation.

I also would point out that our current ban policy is fine really: mod cites certain person for banning and then the guild votes for one week, majority rules.

I would also said that some of the sub-forums we have for other things could be used to post the results of past elections, past bannings, and the like a guild archive so to speak.

I also note that I would again vote against your proposal below because it would be an enormous hassle - tank and I once e-mailed a goodly portion of the membership roles, it took a great deal of time, and netted almost nothing. If they're inactive who cares.

Gallenger

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Le Pere Duchesne
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Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 10:55 pm

Gallenger

Regarding Gracchvs proposal for a new constitution I have a few concerns:

Firstly, there are several typos which ought to be fixed.

I don't see why the Bolivarian revolution or the Zapistas are singled out - I would strike out the mentioning of any extant movement simply to avoid conflict and because it clearly biases our program against these 2 trends which, in their coalitions, have segments that support and adhere to the teachings of Marx, Engels, Lenin et al. I would also point out that the preamble is historically inaccurate since anarchic and Green/socialist trends existed well before even the mid 1970s. Couldn't we just substitute 20th century catchwords like: reformist, opportunist, ultra-left, and petty-bourgeois?

I would also amend the second potion of Duties of Membership in the following general ways (it's your document).

- accusations deemed to be baseless will receive a warning for a member of the central committee, subsequent accusations will result proceedings to ban.

- Terms like "nationalist" and "sectarian" are very difficult to define and should be stricken. I also see no reason to ban the member for only one week if they are racist or sexist.

- I would strike the word "reaction" from the portion on fascism, since again, this is a term which is widely open to interpretation.

I also would point out that our current ban policy is fine really: mod cites certain person for banning and then the guild votes for one week, majority rules.

I would also said that some of the sub-forums we have for other things could be used to post the results of past elections, past bannings, and the like a guild archive so to speak.

The reason I proposed a new constitution is because Tank deleted the thread with the old one. If you have the old constitution saved on your computer or something, I would prefer to continue using that with some amendments and s**t, and to have it actually enforced.

But if you don't, then we will need a constitution, and this is just a quick something I wrote up.

The reason I singled out the Zapatistas and the Bolivarian s**t is because those are the ones I know most about, the rest (various african, asian and near eastern variants) I know little about, so...

The Anarchists and Greens existed sure, but they exploded after counter-revolution with the better leftist youth going toward anarchism and the intelectual types toward greenie s**t.

The reason I pointed them out is to say 'look, all these different groups exist, and they all have supporters in the first world and who will come to this site. As such, we should bring them into the guild'

I agree with the point about 'reaction' though more due to redundancy.

The point about subforums, I believe, is not something that belongs in the constitution, but should be deceded upin within the framework of the constitution.

About 'nationalist' and 'sectarian'. Ex.:
Nationalist: "Americans are too corrupted and are completely reactionary pigs."
Sectarian: "******** christians, they ******** everything up!"

I'm pretty sure that is WAY obvious...

Quote:

I also note that I would again vote against your proposal below because it would be an enormous hassle - tank and I once e-mailed a goodly portion of the membership roles, it took a great deal of time, and netted almost nothing. If they're inactive who cares.

Except that isn't what that motion is about. It is simply a listing of all members in a text file/post and their status.

Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:33 pm

BUMP

Intermundia

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Grin de Fiend

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Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 1:06 am

Louis-Auguste Robespierre

About 'nationalist' and 'sectarian'. Ex.:
Nationalist: "Americans are too corrupted and are completely reactionary pigs."
Sectarian: "******** christians, they ******** everything up!"

i agree with the christian part, but nationalists are all over the word, not just here in america. most of the world is corrupt as it has evolved to part of human nature, thus those who cannot be corrupted have risen above human nature due to their political ideals or whatever have you.

Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 4:06 am

Fenrir Berzerker

Louis-Auguste Robespierre

About 'nationalist' and 'sectarian'. Ex.:
Nationalist: "Americans are too corrupted and are completely reactionary pigs."
Sectarian: "******** christians, they ******** everything up!"

i agree with the christian part, but nationalists are all over the word, not just here in america. most of the world is corrupt as it has evolved to part of human nature, thus those who cannot be corrupted have risen above human nature due to their political ideals or whatever have you.

Those were examples of nationalist and sectarian comments...
Not actual positions I hold.

Le Pere Duchesne
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Grin de Fiend

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Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 4:21 am

Louis-Auguste Robespierre

Fenrir Berzerker

Louis-Auguste Robespierre

About 'nationalist' and 'sectarian'. Ex.:
Nationalist: "Americans are too corrupted and are completely reactionary pigs."
Sectarian: "******** christians, they ******** everything up!"

i agree with the christian part, but nationalists are all over the word, not just here in america. most of the world is corrupt as it has evolved to part of human nature, thus those who cannot be corrupted have risen above human nature due to their political ideals or whatever have you.

Those were examples of nationalist and sectarian comments...
Not actual positions I hold.

ah, fair enough and sorry for the waste of time

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