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 Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 5:56 am
We all know of the bloody silver tower upsstream on the Arinelle from Whitebridge. The tower that according to Birgitte is almost inescapable in Tel'aran'rhoid.
The place that is supposed to some sort of gateway to the realms of the Aelfinn and the Eelfinn (Snakey and Foxey people according to Mat Cauthon). We know that Slayer, and thus Lan Mandragoran's family is involved with them. We also know that the tower of Ghenjei appeared in the doorway to the Aelfinn's chambers.
According to the game 'Snakes and Foxes', the only way to win, is to break the rules.
Courage to strengthen,
fire to blind,
music to dazzle,
iron to bind. - Snakes and Foxes
So specifically discussing theories about the Tower of Ghenjei. What are your thoughts.
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Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 11:41 am
You need courage to go there. Music will put them in a daze, they prolly like it way to much. They cannot break or maybe touch Iron...and their eyes are sensitive to bright light like fire. So if you have all four you can beat them and take something without paying...which is what i believe Lanfear did and thats why she wuz so beautiful, strong, and something else. Thats why that when she went through the gate again she died and moraine didnt. She is prolly being held because she came in with Lanfear and they are not shure what to do with her. But reluctant to let one go with their life. So when Lanfear wuz killed by the Finns they took her beauty and power and whatever else she wished for then killed her. The DO gave her a new body and a humorous name. So Moriane is alive and a captive of the Finns and Thom, Mat, and Noal with Courage, Music, Iron, and Fire will go to the tower and free Moraine. ^_^ thats my take on things...
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Platinum_Behemoth252 Crew
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Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 3:00 pm
I agree that you havew many correct points there. I assumed most of the same. But then we have to think, what does Slayer/Lord Luc/Mandragoran caln have to do with all of this.
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Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 6:44 pm
Courage - No idea.
Fire - Aludra's Strikers. {Known to us as matches.}
Music - Well Thom is a gleeman/ex-court bard. He can sing.
Iron - Bleed on them maybe? There's iron in OUR blood, why not those of Rand-land as well. Or even have Mat use one of his steel blades to cut out his own eye. And throw it at them. {That might also cover courage too. Because it would TAKE courage to cut out your own eye.}
And that would also fulfill the visions/prophecies/whatever they are of Mat "giving up half the light of the world to save the world." Because of Min's visions that Rand would "Surely fail without a woman who is dead and gone." Meaning he NEEDS Moiraine to stop the Dark One. And without her, he can't SAVE the world.
And in an aside? There is only one moon in Rand-land. Mentioned in Book Nine that the telescope is able to see the moon at close range and possibly planets.
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Platinum_Behemoth252 Crew
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Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 11:19 pm
RicFule Courage - No idea.
Fire - Aludra's Strikers. {Known to us as matches.}
Music - Well Thom is a gleeman/ex-court bard. He can sing.
Iron - Bleed on them maybe? There's iron in OUR blood, why not those of Rand-land as well. Or even have Mat use one of his steel blades to cut out his own eye. And throw it at them. {That might also cover courage too. Because it would TAKE courage to cut out your own eye.}
And that would also fulfill the visions/prophecies/whatever they are of Mat "giving up half the light of the world to save the world." Because of Min's visions that Rand would "Surely fail without a woman who is dead and gone." Meaning he NEEDS Moiraine to stop the Dark One. And without her, he can't SAVE the world.
And in an aside? There is only one moon in Rand-land. Mentioned in Book Nine that the telescope is able to see the moon at close range and possibly planets. ...uh-huh...bleed on them? why would our blood do anything to them? the Fox ones wear are skin...so they skin us...that means they come in contact with our blood...they dont seem to be dead...and i dont think Mat throwing his eye will do anything to them...if such happened they would probably look at him like a the dumbshit he wuz and then kill him...Fire and Music part are okay but i think it will go farther than jst strikers...how did you even come to that conclusion?
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Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 9:16 pm
Platinum_Behemoth252 RicFule Courage - No idea.
Fire - Aludra's Strikers. {Known to us as matches.}
Music - Well Thom is a gleeman/ex-court bard. He can sing.
Iron - Bleed on them maybe? There's iron in OUR blood, why not those of Rand-land as well. Or even have Mat use one of his steel blades to cut out his own eye. And throw it at them. {That might also cover courage too. Because it would TAKE courage to cut out your own eye.}
And that would also fulfill the visions/prophecies/whatever they are of Mat "giving up half the light of the world to save the world." Because of Min's visions that Rand would "Surely fail without a woman who is dead and gone." Meaning he NEEDS Moiraine to stop the Dark One. And without her, he can't SAVE the world.
And in an aside? There is only one moon in Rand-land. Mentioned in Book Nine that the telescope is able to see the moon at close range and possibly planets. ...uh-huh...bleed on them? why would our blood do anything to them? the Fox ones wear are skin...so they skin us...that means they come in contact with our blood...they dont seem to be dead...and i dont think Mat throwing his eye will do anything to them...if such happened they would probably look at him like a the dumbshit he wuz and then kill him...Fire and Music part are okay but i think it will go farther than jst strikers...how did you even come to that conclusion?
Which conclusion?
That they'll use the stikers? Because none of the people there can use the Power. So, that means they can't weave Fire like Rand did way back when.
Thom singing? Well, unless they stop by Camelyn on the way to the Tower, they'll not be able to pick up the musical ter'angreal. If it even works without being channeled at. So, that leaves singing as the only musical option.
Or did you mean the Iron part? That one is a bit harder to explain. It just came to me one day. And yes, I know the Eelfinn wear human skins. However, there are ways to remove skins without blood flowing. {Not that I know them, of course.} Maybe drain the blood first? From a distance, so none would actually spill onto them? Or maybe, the blood needs to get INSIDE the Finns? So, as long as they're not injured and bleeding themselves, they can skin to their heart's content?
And as for the Mat cutting his own eye out? Well, we have the prophecies, yes? And he now thinks that the Finns can see out of his eyes. So, what better way to foil that than cutting your own eye out?
And for the throwing the removed eyeball? That was just an idea I was "throwing" out.
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Platinum_Behemoth252 Crew
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Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 10:23 pm
The music and the fire im fine with though i think Thom will use his harp/flute for it. but the blood i jst dont get...cause if you look back at book three they asked if he carried any iron with him...as in anything made of iron. same in book 4. So i dont think it has anything to do with blood. Think of it kind of like a line of salt or brickdust one of those things that bars passage. They may be allergic to it, or it may jst kill them for some strange reason. But i think they will have iron...i wonder what Noal's blades are made of? does it ever say in the book? maybe his blades are made of iron? if so then you have this. Courage which they all three have jst to attempt it. Mat has fire from Aludra, Thom has music both voice and harp/flute, and Noal if his blades are iron has the iron part. So those three together, if noal's blades are iron, have all four parts of the poem and stand a chance at saving Moiraine.
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Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2005 12:49 pm
RicFule Courage - No idea.
Fire - Aludra's Strikers. {Known to us as matches.}
Music - Well Thom is a gleeman/ex-court bard. He can sing.
Iron - Bleed on them maybe? There's iron in OUR blood, why not those of Rand-land as well. Or even have Mat use one of his steel blades to cut out his own eye. And throw it at them. {That might also cover courage too. Because it would TAKE courage to cut out your own eye.}
And that would also fulfill the visions/prophecies/whatever they are of Mat "giving up half the light of the world to save the world." Because of Min's visions that Rand would "Surely fail without a woman who is dead and gone." Meaning he NEEDS Moiraine to stop the Dark One. And without her, he can't SAVE the world.
And in an aside? There is only one moon in Rand-land. Mentioned in Book Nine that the telescope is able to see the moon at close range and possibly planets. The Iron part seems rather too easy, to me. There is no particular reason for those two events to be linked. I'm sure that if it was blood they were interested in/afraid of/etc. that the chant would specify it. I doubt that people in Rand's time (including the Finn's) would know that there is iron in blood. Mat's decent with a Flute, he could also supply the musical component, or Thom could play one of his instruments. Strikers would be a convenient way of bringing fire without drawing attention. and just one other thing to point out... until she reappeared, Cadsiuane was believed to be 'dead and gone.' She might very well be the woman described in that vision
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Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2005 2:13 pm
Tedronai RicFule Courage - No idea.
Fire - Aludra's Strikers. {Known to us as matches.}
Music - Well Thom is a gleeman/ex-court bard. He can sing.
Iron - Bleed on them maybe? There's iron in OUR blood, why not those of Rand-land as well. Or even have Mat use one of his steel blades to cut out his own eye. And throw it at them. {That might also cover courage too. Because it would TAKE courage to cut out your own eye.}
And that would also fulfill the visions/prophecies/whatever they are of Mat "giving up half the light of the world to save the world." Because of Min's visions that Rand would "Surely fail without a woman who is dead and gone." Meaning he NEEDS Moiraine to stop the Dark One. And without her, he can't SAVE the world.
And in an aside? There is only one moon in Rand-land. Mentioned in Book Nine that the telescope is able to see the moon at close range and possibly planets. The Iron part seems rather too easy, to me. There is no particular reason for those two events to be linked. I'm sure that if it was blood they were interested in/afraid of/etc. that the chant would specify it. I doubt that people in Rand's time (including the Finn's) would know that there is iron in blood. Mat's decent with a Flute, he could also supply the musical component, or Thom could play one of his instruments. Strikers would be a convenient way of bringing fire without drawing attention. and just one other thing to point out... until she reappeared, Cadsiuane was believed to be 'dead and gone.' She might very well be the woman described in that vision
Except for one thing. Min has mentioned multiple times that the ONLY viewing she has had to fail was one centered around Moiraine. Yes, there are no specifics about the viewing, but ...
And also? Min wouldn't have KNOWN about Cadsuane until she met her for the first time. And by that time? Cadsuane would no longer be classified as being "dead and gone."
Plus. We have this. Snakes - "A long time, yet the seekers come again for answers. The questioners come once more. Good. You have brought no lamps, no torches, as the agreement was, and is, and ever will be. You have no iron? No instruments of music? Iron. Instruments of music. You have none? According to the agreement. Come."
Foxes - "A very long time. A very long time. Do you abide by the treaties and agreements? Do you carry iron, or instruments of music, or devices for making light?"
Slightly different, but BOTH groups mention not having instruments. And the Foxes say devices. Which might include the strikers as well. Hmm.
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Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2005 8:00 pm
those all sound like they could happen
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Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2005 8:47 pm
Ooo. Another idea. Instead of the eye throwing one. Mat carries steel knives usually, yes? He mentions that in the Snakes arch.
So, here we go.
"I don't want your Bloody memories. Stay out of my flaming head! If you can't see what I do, you bloody well can't enter my bloody head. Light! This will flaming hurt."
Then, he pulls out a knife and cuts the eye out. And for some reason, as he's moving the knife over to cut out the other one, the Fox tries to stop him. So, Mat just slices the air in front of the Finn to get it to stay back and accidentally cuts into him/her/it. And it freezes where it is.
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Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2005 9:02 pm
i think that would be to funny to happen
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Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2005 10:47 pm
RicFule Except for one thing. Min has mentioned multiple times that the ONLY viewing she has had to fail was one centered around Moiraine. Yes, there are no specifics about the viewing, but ...
And also? Min wouldn't have KNOWN about Cadsuane until she met her for the first time. And by that time? Cadsuane would no longer be classified as being "dead and gone."
Plus. We have this. Snakes - "A long time, yet the seekers come again for answers. The questioners come once more. Good. You have brought no lamps, no torches, as the agreement was, and is, and ever will be. You have no iron? No instruments of music? Iron. Instruments of music. You have none? According to the agreement. Come."
Foxes - "A very long time. A very long time. Do you abide by the treaties and agreements? Do you carry iron, or instruments of music, or devices for making light?"
Slightly different, but BOTH groups mention not having instruments. And the Foxes say devices. Which might include the strikers as well. Hmm. the Collam Daan Min's Viewings [ACos: 35, Into the Woods, 543] He would almost certainly fail without a woman who was dead and gone... Both Moiraine and Cadsiuane are equally qualified to fulfill that prophecy. Personally, I agree that Moiraine will perform an integral role in the Light's victory, but then, so will Cadsiuane. In fact, there is another prophecy that more specifically - well, slightly - defines that role. the Collam Daan Min's Viewings [ACoS: 35, Into the Woods, 549] "She is going to teach you something, you and the Asha'man. All the Asha'man, I mean. It's something you have to learn, but I don't know what it is, except that none of you will like learning it from her. You aren't going to like it at all." Min associates the first viewing with Moiraine, but only after the fact. Meaning that it is an interpretation, and not part of the prophecy itself. so it's not fire. It is lamps, torches, and other 'devices for making light.' I doubt they would include Stikers in that. Still, Strikers would make using a lamp/torch/etc much more convenient. Not strictly necessary, but easier than a flint and steel.
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Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:30 am
Tedronai RicFule Except for one thing. Min has mentioned multiple times that the ONLY viewing she has had to fail was one centered around Moiraine. Yes, there are no specifics about the viewing, but ...
And also? Min wouldn't have KNOWN about Cadsuane until she met her for the first time. And by that time? Cadsuane would no longer be classified as being "dead and gone."
Plus. We have this. Snakes - "A long time, yet the seekers come again for answers. The questioners come once more. Good. You have brought no lamps, no torches, as the agreement was, and is, and ever will be. You have no iron? No instruments of music? Iron. Instruments of music. You have none? According to the agreement. Come."
Foxes - "A very long time. A very long time. Do you abide by the treaties and agreements? Do you carry iron, or instruments of music, or devices for making light?"
Slightly different, but BOTH groups mention not having instruments. And the Foxes say devices. Which might include the strikers as well. Hmm. the Collam Daan Min's Viewings [ACos: 35, Into the Woods, 543] He would almost certainly fail without a woman who was dead and gone... Both Moiraine and Cadsiuane are equally qualified to fulfill that prophecy. Personally, I agree that Moiraine will perform an integral role in the Light's victory, but then, so will Cadsiuane. In fact, there is another prophecy that more specifically - well, slightly - defines that role. the Collam Daan Min's Viewings [ACoS: 35, Into the Woods, 549] "She is going to teach you something, you and the Asha'man. All the Asha'man, I mean. It's something you have to learn, but I don't know what it is, except that none of you will like learning it from her. You aren't going to like it at all." Min associates the first viewing with Moiraine, but only after the fact. Meaning that it is an interpretation, and not part of the prophecy itself. so it's not fire. It is lamps, torches, and other 'devices for making light.' I doubt they would include Stikers in that. Still, Strikers would make using a lamp/torch/etc much more convenient. Not strictly necessary, but easier than a flint and steel.
Cadsuane is NOT qualified to fill the first one. By the time that vision is mentioned, Rand has already met Cadsuane. And even mentioned her to Min. {So has Alanna, for that matter. And I'm sure that you can claim that Min didn't HAVE the vision when she thought about it, but keep reading. I'll explain further.} And even if Min doesn't know names in her visions, she would have had to be able to recognize that the person WAS "dead and gone." Yes, she first sees Cadsuane at the Rebel camp in the hills. No, she didn't recognize her, as she most certainly would have if THAT vision was centered around her.
Well, when Rand channeled Fire, he held the Snakes at bay. So it's more that lamps and torches. Maybe the "devices" were from the Age of Legends? We know they had things like that. Because Graendal was wanting some.
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Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:41 pm
RicFule Tedronai RicFule Except for one thing. Min has mentioned multiple times that the ONLY viewing she has had to fail was one centered around Moiraine. Yes, there are no specifics about the viewing, but ...
And also? Min wouldn't have KNOWN about Cadsuane until she met her for the first time. And by that time? Cadsuane would no longer be classified as being "dead and gone."
Plus. We have this. Snakes - "A long time, yet the seekers come again for answers. The questioners come once more. Good. You have brought no lamps, no torches, as the agreement was, and is, and ever will be. You have no iron? No instruments of music? Iron. Instruments of music. You have none? According to the agreement. Come."
Foxes - "A very long time. A very long time. Do you abide by the treaties and agreements? Do you carry iron, or instruments of music, or devices for making light?"
Slightly different, but BOTH groups mention not having instruments. And the Foxes say devices. Which might include the strikers as well. Hmm. the Collam Daan Min's Viewings [ACos: 35, Into the Woods, 543] He would almost certainly fail without a woman who was dead and gone... Both Moiraine and Cadsiuane are equally qualified to fulfill that prophecy. Personally, I agree that Moiraine will perform an integral role in the Light's victory, but then, so will Cadsiuane. In fact, there is another prophecy that more specifically - well, slightly - defines that role. the Collam Daan Min's Viewings [ACoS: 35, Into the Woods, 549] "She is going to teach you something, you and the Asha'man. All the Asha'man, I mean. It's something you have to learn, but I don't know what it is, except that none of you will like learning it from her. You aren't going to like it at all." Min associates the first viewing with Moiraine, but only after the fact. Meaning that it is an interpretation, and not part of the prophecy itself. so it's not fire. It is lamps, torches, and other 'devices for making light.' I doubt they would include Stikers in that. Still, Strikers would make using a lamp/torch/etc much more convenient. Not strictly necessary, but easier than a flint and steel.
Well, when Rand channeled Fire, he held the Snakes at bay. So it's more that lamps and torches. Maybe the "devices" were from the Age of Legends? We know they had things like that. Because Graendal was wanting some.your talking about their lightbulb like things right? where they called glow something?
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