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Formerly called the NCS, this is a place for communists and socialists to talk about communism and socialism. 

Tags: Marxism, Communism, Socialism, Political, Left 

Reply MCS: Marxism, Communism, Socialism
The problem with violent revolution

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divineseraph

PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 7:37 pm


I just figured this out in allegory theme. I tend to think in metaphor.

So, let's say that any normalcy in society is like a turtle- It's a defensive organism, and generally slow-moving. It's sturdy and lasts a long time. Capitalism is one of these societal norms, where it is normal for the workers to be the lower-class, the ones doing the labor to get the smallest share of their produce.

How do you fight a turtle? If you take off the head, it will die, this is true. But they can move their heads pretty quickly, and if you do not get a lucky hit, the whole thing will curl inside it's shell and be impossible to hurt. It will stop moving entirely and defend itself through a very thick shell. This relates to capitalism too- If you bomb or assault a capitalist symbol of power, the rulers will simply call upon the people of the society to defend it. Progress towards socialism/communism will stop entirely, and the people will defend the system the know as normal with their lives. Communism will not have another shot for a long time, and even if it does, popular opinion will be low as it will be a hostile takeover and instantly be assumed to be totalitarian or removing rights, despite the reality of the situation.

So if physically attacking a turtle will only make it harder to kill, how do you kill it?

Use it's defense against itself. Flip it onto it's back. Turn it's defense into a weakness, make it obsolete. In capitalism, this is using logic- Turn the "normalcy" of wage enslavement into something the masses abhor rather than accept as an inevitability. Turn the shell that the rich use, it's own workers, against it. This way, we win not only the economic struggle, but we have the population on our side. We achieved a victory through peace, and through popular opinion so that the workers will remain content in their new society they helped to forge.
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 9:53 pm


You really need to check out the "russian question" thread.

I think you have a few misconceptions about what a violent revolution entails. That thread will clear things up for you. You may agree, you may not. But either way you will drop this criticism.

Le Pere Duchesne
Captain

Beloved Prophet


divineseraph

PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 6:42 am


I don't think I will. Simply dropping the economic system that the capitalists rely on for control will be sufficient.

If you're looking to punish those who oppress us, which will hurt more? A quick death by a bomb or riot, or watching their beloved system, with all of their power over their millions of workers, crumble to dust before their eyes? They will bash their desks and wonder why, when they throw money at us, we just burn it. It will be a psychological effect on them, and they will be shown just how wrong they are.

I also maintain that if we attack violently, the media will spin us right out of existence, just like they did Osama and the Taliban- They had political goals involving our arms deals in Israel, but they were turned into mindless, America-hating madmen with no goal but world domination. The same thing will happen to us, we will be demonized and turned into soviet terrorists with a dying dream of an impossible system, in the eyes of the media and the public.
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 8:54 am


divineseraph
I don't think I will. Simply dropping the economic system that the capitalists rely on for control will be sufficient.

If you're looking to punish those who oppress us, which will hurt more? A quick death by a bomb or riot, or watching their beloved system, with all of their power over their millions of workers, crumble to dust before their eyes? They will bash their desks and wonder why, when they throw money at us, we just burn it. It will be a psychological effect on them, and they will be shown just how wrong they are.

I also maintain that if we attack violently, the media will spin us right out of existence, just like they did Osama and the Taliban- They had political goals involving our arms deals in Israel, but they were turned into mindless, America-hating madmen with no goal but world domination. The same thing will happen to us, we will be demonized and turned into soviet terrorists with a dying dream of an impossible system, in the eyes of the media and the public.


Your going way to ahead of yourself and sounding like an anarchist. I say this because of the view that currency in any form is wrong. Burning money doesnt solve issues for currency is simply a means of exchange which will be around during Socialism and even possibly communism as a organizational tool, to not do such brings us back to the old Feudal system of bartering.

"A revolution is not a dinner party"

I cant stress that enough with your comments.

SoViEtTaNkT34
Crew


Raziel Hotokashi

PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 2:09 pm


I'm sorry...what? Tank, nobody said anything about bartering. Why can't there just be goods sitting on a shelf. If you need food, or a new TV, just go and get it.
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 6:06 pm


Raziel Hotokashi
I'm sorry...what? Tank, nobody said anything about bartering. Why can't there just be goods sitting on a shelf. If you need food, or a new TV, just go and get it.

What tank is saying is that prematurely and arbitrarily removing money will not change anything. Depending on how things go after the civil war (and there will almost certainly be one, wherever we next take power) there could very well be a need for money (we might be able to do away with it, but to say we MUST is absurd).

If money is needed and it is gotten rid of, things will devolve into barter, on a personal level at least.

Le Pere Duchesne
Captain

Beloved Prophet


Herobane

PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 2:03 pm


A 7.92mm rifle round will go through a turtle's shell no problem. twisted
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MCS: Marxism, Communism, Socialism

 
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