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 Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 5:22 pm
Well, this one is a veeeeery hot topic in Southern Baptist churches, so I think I'll toss it out here for general discussion and see what other religions make of it. This is the most popular scenario, too:
You are housing a group of Christians in the basement of your home in a country that viciously persecutes Christians. Soldiers beat on your door and demand to know if there are Christians inside. If you say yes, they will kill you all. If you say no, the Christians might live. Is it right to lie to the soldiers and say there are no Christians inside, and you are not a Christian?
In my church, the opinions are always sharply divided - some people say "No, of course not, you should let them all die because it's wrong to lie and deny your faith."
The others say "Of course it is, you're saving all those innocent lives."
Ideas? I can't find anything in the Bible to support either view, besides "Thou shalt not lie", which seems to indicate "Thou shalt not lie", and of course the story of wass-her-name, darnit, umm, Rahab, that was it, that lied about the spies being within her home, and later became one of the ancestors of Jesus. Seems to me that's a bit ambiguous, eh?
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Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:16 pm
I mean, I don't really know about anything in the Bible...but some of the greatest (or most encouraging) saints I've found are the ones who have stood out from the crowd...been the evangelists, and never denied their faith, no matter what the cost. (St. Catherine of Alexandria is one I've particularly liked...)
Of course you have to assess the situation, cause I mean, if they're clearly hiding in the first place, maybe it's better to protect them....I really don't know. It's not like we would be the first to be afraid to be called christians...even the disciples were afraid to claim they were with Jesus...but I'm not sure what the 'right' answer is...
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Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 10:13 pm
Since I'm not a Christian, I think I could answer this with ease.
I'd lie to the soldiers. If it means that I'll save the lives of others (no matter what religion they are), I'd do it without hesitation.
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Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 12:22 am
I'm going to say something unpopular right now but I cannot sugar coat this.
If you are in the described situation and you are a christian, the only right response would be to tell them that you are a christian. Look to the bible and it clearly tells us that if we deny christ here on earth, he will deny us before his father in heaven.
I'll put it this way...we dont really even understand just how bad sin is. To deny christ is to sin, end of discussion there. Let me give you a little idea of how we SHOULD look at sin.
Say you are a parent of a 12 year old girl. You come home from work one day to find out that your daughter has been brutally raped and murdered. Think of the pain and anger you would feel. Now...multiply that by a thousand. THAT is slowly starting to get to an idea of what sin is to God.
I wouldn't even hesitate with my answer if I were placed in that position that is in question.
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Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 3:59 pm
I agree with you Archer. Most of the Christians would agree with that anyway.
Hm..and looking into history could that be perhaps like the martyrs..?
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Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 7:26 pm
Kirinai I agree with you Archer. Most of the Christians would agree with that anyway. Hm..and looking into history could that be perhaps like the martyrs..? In many cases, yes. That specific situation maybe not but...in a sense, yea
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Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 12:58 pm
I understand xD just wondering if it really would be like that since it's an interesting word to me. Lots of the things I read in History are interesting when it comes to philosophies but I find Christianity to have the most balanced perspective.
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Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:44 pm
Kirinai I understand xD just wondering if it really would be like that since it's an interesting word to me. Lots of the things I read in History are interesting when it comes to philosophies but I find Christianity to have the most balanced perspective. In some senses, yes; the perspective is balanced but there are sects of Christianity that are far biased and extreme, bordering almost a paganish worship. If the Bible is studied thoroughly and understood correctly, the perspective is pretty wel balanced though.
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Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 4:38 pm
Look at Rahab. She lied to save spies lives. Christian spies. But then again, she, herself was not a 'christian'. I say we do not have the power to tell the soldiers about the others... We can fully say, "I, myself am a christian," but it is NOT our place, or anyones, to make the decision on anyone elses life. It is their decision between them and God. We can not make that decision to be killed for them. If they renounce God in that moment I wouldn't judge them, I only know what I would do if I was in their shoes...
Either way... God would forgive them for lying, he still loves them, even if they deny him to save their own lives.
Also, if they lie and live they have a chance to spread God's word(something to think about, more important than lying I would think)
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Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 10:08 am
call me timm Look at Rahab. She lied to save spies lives. Christian spies. But then again, she, herself was not a 'christian'. I say we do not have the power to tell the soldiers about the others... We can fully say, "I, myself am a christian," but it is NOT our place, or anyones, to make the decision on anyone elses life. It is their decision between them and God. We can not make that decision to be killed for them. If they renounce God in that moment I wouldn't judge them, I only know what I would do if I was in their shoes... Either way... God would forgive them for lying, he still loves them, even if they deny him to save their own lives. Also, if they lie and live they have a chance to spread God's word(something to think about, more important than lying I would think) actually..you are wrong on several points. first off, you never did answer the question directly...you say things about us not having the power to do things....well yes we do. I could easily make a decision to say one thing or another and I do have the power to say whichever I decide to go with. and the question is what would you do if you were the one hiding christians..not what would you do if you were one in hiding...what they would do is really irrelevant to the question. and saying God would forgive them is another thing you are wrong on. If you deny Christ on earth, he will deny you before God in heaven. That is biblical. there is no way to say "Well it could mean this or that" it means EXACTLY what it says. the bible is NOT UP FOR INTERPRETATION. If God says something is wrong, guess what...It is wrong.
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Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:47 pm
Archer`Colton call me timm Look at Rahab. She lied to save spies lives. Christian spies. But then again, she, herself was not a 'christian'. I say we do not have the power to tell the soldiers about the others... We can fully say, "I, myself am a christian," but it is NOT our place, or anyones, to make the decision on anyone elses life. It is their decision between them and God. We can not make that decision to be killed for them. If they renounce God in that moment I wouldn't judge them, I only know what I would do if I was in their shoes... Either way... God would forgive them for lying, he still loves them, even if they deny him to save their own lives. Also, if they lie and live they have a chance to spread God's word(something to think about, more important than lying I would think) actually..you are wrong on several points. first off, you never did answer the question directly...you say things about us not having the power to do things....well yes we do. I could easily make a decision to say one thing or another and I do have the power to say whichever I decide to go with. and the question is what would you do if you were the one hiding christians..not what would you do if you were one in hiding...what they would do is really irrelevant to the question. and saying God would forgive them is another thing you are wrong on. If you deny Christ on earth, he will deny you before God in heaven. That is biblical. there is no way to say "Well it could mean this or that" it means EXACTLY what it says. the bible is NOT UP FOR INTERPRETATION. If God says something is wrong, guess what...It is wrong. But if someone truly repents God WILL forgive them.
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Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:48 pm
Timm, you missed the point of the question. It doesn't have anything to do with the forgiveness or repentance of the people. Yes, the Bible says that God forgives, but that doesn't mean He forgives every person who calls on Him. We don't know the mind of God or the heart of man and to make the assumption that we do is heresy.
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