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shall she sail seas Vice Captain
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 Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 3:04 pm
WARNING: You might need some physics and/or music background to know what's going on here.... depending on where this thread leads
This is kind of related to the whole Musica Universalis thing but not quite a mystical. I'm talking about our average musical intervals and harmonics like octaves, perfect fourths and fifths, etc.
We're all able to perceive an octave. We all know that it just sounds the same only that it's higher or lower, and this perception is created from doubling the frequency of that note. It's pretty much universal. The same perception can be applied to other intervals.
The strange thing that I don't really get is.... why do we perceive certain intervals to be pleasant to our ears? Why are some intervals considered to be unpleasant? It can't be just physics-related, or can it? Despite what people may think, music is actually a pretty mathematical endeavor. Humans just have a way of using mathematics as a tool to create something that is expressive. Bach and Schoenberg are two of many talented humans who do this.
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Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 8:58 pm
Maybe we find a chord with one clashing note in it unpleasant because our ears are trained that way. As a singer, I cringe whenever I hear a wrong note played or sung because it sounds off and sounds like it isn't supposed to be there, and therefore is unpleasant to me. Then, many times, these dissonant chords are used purposefully in music to denote something bad (discord or chaos) in the piece. We're used to hearing chords that are consonant, so when a dissonant chord is thrown into a piece it generally is meant to sound unpleasant...
I don't know if I answered your question. It's a really good question, and a hard one to answer.
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On a Lunacy Fringe Vice Captain
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shall she sail seas Vice Captain
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Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 2:28 am
Not at all. Our ears are not "trained that way". If you look at the different temperaments invented/discovered (I can't tell which) by different countries, you will see striking similarities.
For a cultural perspective, take a look at Indian classical music or Chinese opera.
For a mathematical/physical one, learn about waves and logarithms.
My biggest weakness in this topic has to do with biology and ear structure, and I'm really hoping someone could fill in the missing pieces on it.
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Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 1:45 pm
I think I must be confused because it sounded like you were asking why certain chords are unpleasant. If a chord has an unpleasant sound and it's written that way in music it's an accidental...
I know nothing about the science or math perspective of this.
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On a Lunacy Fringe Vice Captain
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shall she sail seas Vice Captain
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Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 8:34 pm
On a Lunacy Fringe I think I must be confused because it sounded like you were asking why certain chords are unpleasant. If a chord has an unpleasant sound and it's written that way in music it's an accidental... I know nothing about the science or math perspective of this. Yes, that is what I'm asking. But the reason is definitely not because of training of the ear. If it were, you would see major differences in temperaments depending on which part of the world you come from. However, an 8ve sounds like an 8ve no matter where you're from. A P5 or P4 sound consonant no matter where you're from. If there is such universality, then it has to do with more than something as subjective as hearing training.
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Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 2:58 pm
NomNomNominal Yes, that is what I'm asking. But the reason is definitely not because of training of the ear. If it were, you would see major differences in temperaments depending on which part of the world you come from. However, an 8ve sounds like an 8ve no matter where you're from. A P5 or P4 sound consonant no matter where you're from. If there is such universality, then it has to do with more than something as subjective as hearing training. Aaaaah, okay, my fault I didn't know what you meant. I wish I had some way to hear the octaves you're naming because as a singer (we're sort of infamous for this) I don't read music that well / know as much as I should in terms of music theory.
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On a Lunacy Fringe Vice Captain
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shall she sail seas Vice Captain
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Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 8:16 pm
I've never worked with singers before. Why are you guys infamous for not know music theory?
Anyway, since we're kinda going off course.... The question I'm trying to get into is why Equal Temperament does not sound completely pleasant, when compared to Well Temperament while it's being used on the the key it's intended for, for example. Is it simply mathematical or does it have anything to do with the way our ears work?
I recall hearing that Equal Temperament is the best choice for an unsolvable problem.
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