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Reply Religion. 'Nuff said.
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shall she sail seas
Vice Captain

PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 10:01 pm


I'm talking about the "Does God exist?" question but I'm NOT asking that question, don't you worry. lol What I'd like to ask here is why is this question so important to us anyway? It definitely is important to us since I see topics about the existence of God or proving one's religion regularly. There's no denying that. But why does it matter so much in the first place?

Mind you, this isn't a question of "Is it necessary to ask whether or not God exists?" I'm asking why humans find religion/spirituality so important.
PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 11:07 pm


To my knowledge, this question was first asked not by atheists but different religions. Does YOUR God exist was the original question, I would wager. It was all about establishing your religion as the one and only true one. And that could only be done by discrediting the other. With the use of logic and arguments...
Later on as science evolved, the thought that logic and reasoning alone began to arise and take hold within the scientific community. Anything that did not fit in the boundaries of reason, also began failing to fit in the boundaries of reality. And thus something as God which cannot be explained by reason and logic alone do to our inability to understand the concept as a whole, the question evolved. It became "Does God Exist?" And thus the "battle" between reason and faith began.
One side believed that you could prove everything with reason, logic and other evidence. If you couldn't prove it or explain it using those, it didn't exist and it wasn't real.
The other side of the argument believed that some things cannot be proven by reason and that a person must take a leap of faith. He must sincerely believe it to be true, to be true. To show a little faith, don't mind the pun.
So your question as to why we find religion/spirituality so important...
It's because we want to see what's more important, shear reason or faith...

I'm out of coffee, so if this is a bit unclear....

Vedun


Morberticus
Crew

PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 6:27 pm


NomNomNominal
I'm talking about the "Does God exist?" question but I'm NOT asking that question, don't you worry. lol What I'd like to ask here is why is this question so important to us anyway? It definitely is important to us since I see topics about the existence of God or proving one's religion regularly. There's no denying that. But why does it matter so much in the first place?

Mind you, this isn't a question of "Is it necessary to ask whether or not God exists?" I'm asking why humans find religion/spirituality so important.


Well I think it's an important issue to a lot of people because we all want to have our existence validated on some level. The existence of God would mean our own existence has a very fundamental and profound meaning.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 12:51 pm


I don't find the question important at all. If other people didn't talk about it, I would never bring it up. So I don't know. I find it funny that religious people fret over questions that I dismissed when I was 5.

Prince Rilian


JoSlifer
Crew

PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 8:45 pm


People naturally seek light. That's why we're typically awake during the day, and sleep in the darkened hours. Now, if there is a light in the sky (Sol), people wonder, Is there a being of light? That being is typically called "God."

Also, God likes it when His children come unto Him. It pleases Him greatly. So He plants little seeds in the hearts of children who haven't heard the truth... "Is there a God?" The answer, of course, is yes. After that, the question arises, "Where is He, where can I find Him?" But the miracle happens after the test of faith, so a person receives the answer after he/she has searched and done the best of his/her ability to find the answer.
PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 3:29 pm


Morberticus
Well I think it's an important issue to a lot of people because we all want to have our existence validated on some level. The existence of God would mean our own existence has a very fundamental and profound meaning.


But the existence of God does not necessarily mean that our existence has any fundamental or profound meaning.

shall she sail seas
Vice Captain


Prince Rilian

PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 2:16 pm


JoSlifer
People naturally seek light. That's why we're typically awake during the day, and sleep in the darkened hours. Now, if there is a light in the sky (Sol), people wonder, Is there a being of light? That being is typically called "God."
You're the first person I've ever heard say a being of light is called God.

The idea of a being of light makes no sense to me. But supposing it's possible, why are you talking as if there could only be one such being?

Quote:
Also, God likes it when His children come unto Him.
Who are his children?

(I know you really mean humans, even though you didn't say so. How can humans be the children of a being of light? Besides, I know who my parents are, and they are not made of light.)

Quote:
It pleases Him greatly. So He plants little seeds in the hearts of children who haven't heard the truth...
This doesn't make sense to me. I didn't have to have a seed planted in my heart so I would seek my parents. I grew up with my parents and knew them the whole time. Why wouldn't this light being's children know him already? Also, where's his mate?

(I know you really mean that the being of light planted a seed in humans' hearts, even though you didn't say so. You're wrong. There is no seed in my heart. I'm not seeking any being of light. I have no reason to suppose any such thing exists. If I did, I probably wouldn't seek it, because that kind of science isn't my specialty. I'd leave it to the groups who are into that stuff.)

Quote:
"Is there a God?" The answer, of course, is yes.
There is a being made out of light? How did you determine this?

(And how did you go from a being made out of light to some kind of being that wants you to worship it and stuff?)

Quote:
After that, the question arises, "Where is He, where can I find Him?" But the miracle happens after the test of faith, so a person receives the answer after he/she has searched and done the best of his/her ability to find the answer.
So, those who have the answer can't tell anyone else. Conspiracy!

In conclusion, everything you said was non-sense.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 7:19 pm


JoSlifer
People naturally seek light. That's why we're typically awake during the day, and sleep in the darkened hours.


Actually the brain releases melatonin during darkness to induce sleep...also a reason some people have such problems with insomnia. Brain isn't releasing it

sarm-online
Crew


Morberticus
Crew

PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:41 am


NomNomNominal
Morberticus
Well I think it's an important issue to a lot of people because we all want to have our existence validated on some level. The existence of God would mean our own existence has a very fundamental and profound meaning.


But the existence of God does not necessarily mean that our existence has any fundamental or profound meaning.


It does if its a God who loves us, and sees us as the pinnacle of His creation. The alternativie is we are an emergent phenomenon - the result of little more than synaptic spike train potentials.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 6:14 pm


Morberticus
NomNomNominal
Morberticus
Well I think it's an important issue to a lot of people because we all want to have our existence validated on some level. The existence of God would mean our own existence has a very fundamental and profound meaning.


But the existence of God does not necessarily mean that our existence has any fundamental or profound meaning.


It does if its a God who loves us, and sees us as the pinnacle of His creation. The alternativie is we are an emergent phenomenon - the result of little more than synaptic spike train potentials.


I guess, but in sticking on topic, is it truly necessary that to know "God loves us" for us to question his existance? Can't we question his existence despite not knowing that he doesn't love us?

The biggest example probably comes from the Old Testament and even before Old Testament times where the God portrayed was more wrathful. Then, there are things like animism, volcano gods and such.

shall she sail seas
Vice Captain


JoSlifer
Crew

PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 9:59 pm


Rilian Reilly Sharp
JoSlifer
People naturally seek light. That's why we're typically awake during the day, and sleep in the darkened hours. Now, if there is a light in the sky (Sol), people wonder, Is there a being of light? That being is typically called "God."
You're the first person I've ever heard say a being of light is called God.

The idea of a being of light makes no sense to me. But supposing it's possible, why are you talking as if there could only be one such being?

Because there is one God. Except really, there are at least three separate beings (God the Father, and His Son, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost) who are light. They make up the Godhead.

Quote:
Quote:
Also, God likes it when His children come unto Him.
Who are his children?

(I know you really mean humans, even though you didn't say so. How can humans be the children of a being of light? Besides, I know who my parents are, and they are not made of light.)

As you mentioned, I do mean humans. Or, more correctly, human spirits. He is our spiritual Father. Just as you have biological parents whom you know, you have a spiritual Father whom you've forgotten because of the veil that everyone goes through when they're born.

Quote:
Quote:
It pleases Him greatly. So He plants little seeds in the hearts of children who haven't heard the truth...
This doesn't make sense to me. I didn't have to have a seed planted in my heart so I would seek my parents. I grew up with my parents and knew them the whole time. Why wouldn't this light being's children know him already? Also, where's his mate?

(I know you really mean that the being of light planted a seed in humans' hearts, even though you didn't say so. You're wrong. There is no seed in my heart. I'm not seeking any being of light. I have no reason to suppose any such thing exists. If I did, I probably wouldn't seek it, because that kind of science isn't my specialty. I'd leave it to the groups who are into that stuff.)

His mate is our Heavenly Mother. Heavenly Father, who loves His Wife, didn't let men know about Her. Have you heard men's mouths recently? How poorly they treat the name of the Most High God? And how would they treat a Holy Woman? So God, loving Her, hid Her from our knowledge.
Yeah, this Light Being's children know Him. Except they've fogotten, because of the veil I've talked about. But when the Holy Ghost speaks to your heart, you'll feel a burning in your bosom, and you'll know of the truth... It's very difficult to use the Holy Spirit online though.
There's a seed in every human's heart. It's just kind of dead now. You haven't been watering it, or letting it gain root inside you. And if you did have such a seed growing, you would seek your Light Being. Coming to the Lord is a personal thing, and you can't let other groups do it for you.

Quote:
Quote:
"Is there a God?" The answer, of course, is yes.
There is a being made out of light? How did you determine this?

(And how did you go from a being made out of light to some kind of being that wants you to worship it and stuff?)

Alright, let's bring some physics into this equation. Albert Einstein deduced that matter cannot travel at the speed of light. This is, more or less, correct. Because if crude matter (that's what we're made of) travelled at the speed of light, it would cease to be crude matter. I propose that matter that travels at the speed of light is perfect. Which, the only perfect being is God. Since God created man, it's natural that man worships his Creator, just as a father wants his son to give him proper respect.

Quote:
Quote:
After that, the question arises, "Where is He, where can I find Him?" But the miracle happens after the test of faith, so a person receives the answer after he/she has searched and done the best of his/her ability to find the answer.
So, those who have the answer can't tell anyone else. Conspiracy!

In conclusion, everything you said was non-sense.

To your limited mind, yes, it is nonsense. After all, a mind is like a parachute: It only works properly when it's open. You, who have already decided there is no God, refuse to accept my logic. I'm trying to tell you: God lives! I know the answer, but I can't tell you because, as they say, "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink." Just open your mouth and partake of the sweet beverage that is the Lord's word!
PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 2:51 pm


Quote:
I guess, but in sticking on topic, is it truly necessary that to know "God loves us" for us to question his existance? Can't we question his existence despite not knowing that he doesn't love us?

The biggest example probably comes from the Old Testament and even before Old Testament times where the God portrayed was more wrathful. Then, there are things like animism, volcano gods and such.


I see what you mean. I suppose you could, but I doubt that as many people would be interested in the question. Indifferent Gods are quite unpopular these days, probably due to science. People seem to turn to a contemporary God for emotional and spiritual support.

Quote:
Alright, let's bring some physics into this equation. Albert Einstein deduced that matter cannot travel at the speed of light. This is, more or less, correct. Because if crude matter (that's what we're made of) travelled at the speed of light, it would cease to be crude matter. I propose that matter that travels at the speed of light is perfect. Which, the only perfect being is God. Since God created man, it's natural that man worships his Creator, just as a father wants his son to give him proper respect.


If you want to bring God into the realm of physics then you will have to accept all of the consequences. Massless particles are restricted to the speed of light; they cannot slow down or speed up. So if God is 'massless' and created the universe and all its laws, then He has doomed Himself to travel at that velocity for all eternity. Furthermore, He would be unable to communicate with us at all. Massless particles do not pass through time, so God would never be able to communicate with us through prayer or mediation or whatnot; He would be forever frozen, unable to utter a syllable or perform a miracle. And if God is 'light' then he is a consequence of Quantum electrodynamics, and could not have created the universe.

Morberticus
Crew


Song of Chiaroscuro

PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 11:44 pm


As far as I can guess, not having spoken to the cavemen myself, humanity needs religion for a simple reason. We needed to explain things that could not be explained at the time. Why did the sun rise? Why does snow fall? For the love of Phantom of the Opera, Why does sex feel so damn good? All these things needed explained to simple people in simple terms. You wouldn't explain the finer points of physics and orgasm to a bunch of second graders would you? Humanity came up with a simple solution. Blame it all on someone else. There, Bada-Bing problem solved. This was until science could start making sense of the questions that religions use to answer. Why does the sun rise? The Earth rotates. Why does snow fall? Gravity. Why does sex feel so damn good? Men need to ejaculate in order to reproduce and women have vaginal orgasms to make it easier for the sperm to reach the uterus. Also, humans are too damn lazy to do anything unless it feels good. Why do you think we have pleasure receptors? All this is fine and dandy until religion comes in again. Religion is wired so deeply into the human psyche that it becomes difficult to separate faith and science. This is where the lines blur.

I pose a new question:

Can and should society abandon religion all together as a thing of the past and simply something to fascinate curious mind in history books?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 11:27 am


Morberticus

Quote:
Alright, let's bring some physics into this equation. Albert Einstein deduced that matter cannot travel at the speed of light. This is, more or less, correct. Because if crude matter (that's what we're made of) travelled at the speed of light, it would cease to be crude matter. I propose that matter that travels at the speed of light is perfect. Which, the only perfect being is God. Since God created man, it's natural that man worships his Creator, just as a father wants his son to give him proper respect.


If you want to bring God into the realm of physics then you will have to accept all of the consequences. Massless particles are restricted to the speed of light; they cannot slow down or speed up. So if God is 'massless' and created the universe and all its laws, then He has doomed Himself to travel at that velocity for all eternity. Furthermore, He would be unable to communicate with us at all. Massless particles do not pass through time, so God would never be able to communicate with us through prayer or mediation or whatnot; He would be forever frozen, unable to utter a syllable or perform a miracle. And if God is 'light' then he is a consequence of Quantum electrodynamics, and could not have created the universe.

Light, as you understand it, is massless. Because you've only dealt with radiation from the sun and the stuff that burns off of bulbs. But, just because that is one fraction of the truth, it doesn't mean all light is massless. God is not massless: He has a body of flesh and bone, much like you and I. And God isn't subject to time, either.
How do you think massless particles don't travel through time? Just curious, because I've heard of "light years," which implies light goes through time much like the rest of the universe. If it travels at 186,000 miles a second (300,000 meters a second), doesn't this, too, imply that light and time are related and can affect each other?

Song of Chiaroscuro
I pose a new question:

Can and should society abandon religion all together as a thing of the past and simply something to fascinate curious mind in history books?

I pose an answer:
No.
Science and religion don't cancel each other out. Science, in fact, proves that there is a God. Example: Any natural constant. Let's use gravity. Everything on Earth accelerates at about ten meters a second, or about thirty feet per second (ignoring friction). Why? Because there is a constant, timeless, infinitely powerful God making sure that gravity always forces matter to act the same way under the same circumstances.

Religion and God are timeless. The Lord is the same yesterday, today, and forever. The Jehovah of the Old Testament is the Jesus Christ of the New, and the Jesus Christ of the Book of Mormon is the same as the Messiah of the Bible. Jesus is the God of this universe, the Creator of all things that are, were, and will be. He "[took] upon him death, that he may loose the bands of death which bind his people; and he [took] upon him their infirmities, that his bowels may be filled with mercy, according to the flesh, that he may know according to the flesh how to succor his people according to their infirmities," as Alma testified in the Book of Mormon (Alma 7:12). His Atonement is infinite, so that our corruption may put on incorruption, and we may be perfect as our Father in Heaven, who is perfect (2 Ne. 9:7, Book of Mormon; Matt. 5:48, KJV Bible).

I testify that Jesus is the Christ, that the Scriptures are His Words, and that He lives. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is led by the Lord through His living prophet, President Thomas S. Monson. I bear witness of these things in the name of Jesus Christ, amen.

JoSlifer
Crew


[.Jewl.]
Vice Captain

PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:03 pm


Why is the question so important? (I'm going way back to NomNom's first post ever)

I've been reading a lot of examples from you guys and it makes sense when considering which view and stance you guys come from individually. Very interesting, indeed.
I, personally, believe that the question is important in many aspects. It could be important to an individual when they are in the self-realization stage of their life, which often include a lot of seeking in religious-like faith and organizations. After, such a realization of self and their faith has answered, somewhat, this question is re-evaulated in other forms. Such as spreading their beliefs, whether religious or not. When teaching others, or simply informing others, those who've already answer this question would pose this question to others. This makes others question the same, and it is always intended to help others, no matter how severly annoying or not the technique of converting is, the always under lying purpose of the question is to keep the others thinking and to aid, or help. We just all have different values and definitions of help.
The question: "Does God Exist?" is then a catalyst. It is important as one of the many beginning questions to start the deep thoughts that only humans are able to concoct and ponder about. This ability to thinking on such a high level and it's link with religion, creates one path and journey to creating a better self. And, varily, a better group, nation and hopefully world. I often come up with such postive ideals, but do tell me how there can be a negative purpose of this question. It'd be interesting to know. :3
Reply
Religion. 'Nuff said.

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