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 Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 5:17 pm
Harry Potter Lexicon "bellatrix"=Latin for "female warrior;" also the name of a brilliant star in the constellation Orion that is sometimes called "the Amazon star."
10/06/05: I got ahead of myself when creating this and forgot a few things. Post six will now include Bellatrix fanfiction, fan art, and any contests we might come up with.Bellatrix Black-Lestrange is certainly insane, but is she completely evil? After re-reading Spinner's End, chapter two of Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince, I began to wonder. I posted this theory in Toujurs Pur Soeurs on the Harry Potter sub-forum: Quote: I'm re-reading HBP, and Spinner's End struck me as even more beautiful this time through. Even though they fight, it's obvious that Bellatrix and Narcissa care about each other. Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince, US harcover, p. 20 "Cissy, wait!" But her quarry, who had paused and looked back at the flash of light, was already scrambling up the bank the fox had just fallen down. "Cissy--Narcissa--listen to me--" The second woman caught the first and seized her arm, but the other wrenched it away. "Go back, Bella!" "You must listen to me!" "I've listened already. I've made my decision. Leave me alone!" The woman named Narcissa gained the top of the bank, where a line of old railings separated the river from a narrow, cobbled street. The other woman, Bella, followed at once.... p 21 "Cissy, you must not do this, you can't trust him--" In this early part of the chapter, Bella seems truly worried about Narcissa. The tone here is not one of imbecilic loyalty to the Dark Lord. Instead, Bella appears worried that something will happen to Narcissa, not to the Dark Lord's plan. We don't even know at this point that Voldemort HAS a plan. If Bellatrix only wanted to keep a possible spy from hearing about Draco's mission, she could have cast a spell on Narcissa. Instead, she runs after Narcissa and tries desparately to stop her sister from doing something that is, in Bella's mind, utterly foolhardy. p. 21 "Let go, Bella!" snarled Narcissa, and she drew a wand from beneath her cloak, holding it threateningly in the other's face. Bella merely laughed. "Cissy, your own sister?" "There is nothing I wouldn't do anymore!" Narcissa breathed, a note of hysteria in her voice, and as she brought down the wand like a knife, there was another flash of light. Bella let go of her sister's arm as though burned. "Narcissa!"But Narcissa had rushed ahead. Rubbing her hand, her pursuer followed again, keeping her distance now, as they moved deeper into the deserted labyrinth of brick houses. Bellatrix finds the idea of harming her sister absurd. She is obviously shocked when Narcissa uses magic against her (Bellatrix). She does not, however, retaliate, but simply follows Narcissa to Snape's house, still trying to keep the other woman from making a mistake. She does not agree with Narcissa's decision, but she does not use force to stop Narcissa, either. Instead, she tries to reason, and later to force Snape's hand. I think that this shows a lot about Bellatrix. She was perfectly willing to fight both Tonks and Sirius in battle, but she shows extreme reluctance to fight her sister. The bond between the two, while obviously lessened on Narcissa's side by the bond with husband and son, is great. RegulusofSlytherin added this: RegulusofSlytherin As for fighting Tonks and Sirius...am I the only one who noticed she didn't kill them (well, Sirius she did but for some reason I don't think it was entirely intentional). If she had wanted to kill either of them she would have. Instead, she hurt them. Not enough that they wouldn't recover, but enough they would be out of her way for her goal. Sirius just had the unfortunate luck of falling through the "Veil of Doom". Bellatrix is extremely loyal to Voldemort, as most famously exhibited in Dumbledore's memory of her trial (GoF chapter 30). Considering the extreme to which she values fidelity, is it not safe to say that familial loyalty is also important to her? She places value on certain human relationships. How does this affect her characterization? Is she pure evil, or is there something more to the character of Bellatrix Black-Lestrange? How do we consider this women?
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Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 5:57 pm
I think that loyalty in general is a big thing for her. Maybe something happened when she was a child that caused her to find such ideas as betrayal absurd. I'm imagining that she had a relatively strong bond with her family before Sirius "betrayed" them, and even then the loyalty remained. Maybe she joined Voldemort because of a combination of her own views, and because her family encouraged it. Or maybe they weren't originally her views, but the feelings she felt for her family caused them to grow in her.
Sorry, my mind tends to run away with me sweatdrop .
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Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 8:40 am
I've decided that we should veiw Bellatrix as dangerous, but misguided. She's not evil. Yes, she enjoys pain. Yes, Azkaban has probably made her unstable. I don't think, however, she takes pleasure from death.
Pain, yes, she absolutly enjoys giving pain. But I have yet to see her actually want to kill anyone. Rereading OotP, I'm not even entirely sure she realized that she had killed Sirius. She knew she'd hit him with the spell- which was obviously not fatal- and that he'd stumbled back. Whether or not she realized that "The Doom Veil" (as my sister and I call it) would kill him I'm not sure. How would she know? Harry certainly didn't. In fact, the only one I think really realized what was going on was Lupin- and how he knew still bothers me.
I don't think Bellatrix delights in death. I think that she, like Tom, fears it.
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Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 8:47 am
RegulusofSlytherin I've decided that we should veiw Bellatrix as dangerous, but misguided. She's not evil. Yes, she enjoys pain. Yes, Azkaban has probably made her unstable. I don't think, however, she takes pleasure from death. Pain, yes, she absolutly enjoys giving pain. But I have yet to see her actually want to kill anyone. Rereading OotP, I'm not even entirely sure she realized that she had killed Sirius. She knew she'd hit him with the spell- which was obviously not fatal- and that he'd stumbled back. Whether or not she realized that "The Doom Veil" (as my sister and I call it) would kill him I'm not sure. How would she know? Harry certainly didn't. In fact, the only one I think really realized what was going on was Lupin- and how he knew still bothers me. I don't think Bellatrix delights in death. I think that she, like Tom, fears it.
I'll agree on Bellatrix, but I want to throw in a theory on Remus.
He was an unspeakale during the first war. It wasn't learned until later that he was a werewolf and by then he had already gotten in too far for them to risk obliviating him so he is well in the know on what the veil may or may not be and of the importance of many of the other items in the Department of Mysteries. *shrugs* It is also an excellent explanation for why Sirius may not have thought him the spy because he knew (the prophecy perhaps or other important information) that Sirius thought only a Death Eater would know.
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Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 9:10 am
Ex-Professor Remus Lupin RegulusofSlytherin I've decided that we should veiw Bellatrix as dangerous, but misguided. She's not evil. Yes, she enjoys pain. Yes, Azkaban has probably made her unstable. I don't think, however, she takes pleasure from death. Pain, yes, she absolutly enjoys giving pain. But I have yet to see her actually want to kill anyone. Rereading OotP, I'm not even entirely sure she realized that she had killed Sirius. She knew she'd hit him with the spell- which was obviously not fatal- and that he'd stumbled back. Whether or not she realized that "The Doom Veil" (as my sister and I call it) would kill him I'm not sure. How would she know? Harry certainly didn't. In fact, the only one I think really realized what was going on was Lupin- and how he knew still bothers me. I don't think Bellatrix delights in death. I think that she, like Tom, fears it. I'll agree on Bellatrix, but I want to throw in a theory on Remus. He was an unspeakale during the first war. It wasn't learned until later that he was a werewolf and by then he had already gotten in too far for them to risk obliviating him so he is well in the know on what the veil may or may not be and of the importance of many of the other items in the Department of Mysteries. *shrugs* It is also an excellent explanation for why Sirius may not have thought him the spy because he knew (the prophecy perhaps or other important information) that Sirius thought only a Death Eater would know. Remmie that's brillant! Make another thread for it, I want to discuss that more.
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Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 10:11 am
Bellatrix fanfiction/fanart wanted!
Are you a fan of Bellatrix Lestrange? Do you find yourself strangely interested in her looks, personality, deep inner thoughts? Do you find yourself strangely interested in what other people think of her looks, personality, and deep inner thoughts? Then you've come to the right place! This is the official spot for Bellatrix fanfiction and fan art.
Submission rules: If you have a piece of Bellatrix fanfiction or fan art, pm me or post a link on the thread, and it will be moved here so that everyone can find it. Please post only links, for the same reason as in the General Fanfiction and Fan Art sticky. Please stick to the guild rules--this means that fanfiction should be edited and easy to read, and all submissions must be rated PG-13 or below.
Fanfiction:
Currently empty. sad
Fan art:
Also currently empty. sad
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Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 10:20 am
biggrin
Good job, Joie! I'm actually planning on writing a peice of Bella introspective on the car ride from my parent's house to my dorm with an aunt and uncle I don't know (meaning it will be done by sunday). I'll post it then and give you the link.
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Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 2:34 pm
I think Bellatrix is really interesting, and I would have to go with 'not evil.' Like everybody said, she enjoys pain and she's pretty vicious. But, I agree, loyalty is one of her major character traits. No matter that the side she supports is the 'evil' side, she is loyal nonetheless.
The important thing about this I think is, "absolute evil" would entail things like selfishness and lack of ability to love/care about others. But I see loyalty as including both, the willingness to sacrifice oneself for something and a devotion to/caring about someone or something. Voldemort, the example of evil in the books, isn't loyal. I'm sure he'd off any DE who wasn't doing an A+ job without thought, and I'm sure he'd never risk his own self for any of them. That's where I see the difference between Voldmort (evil) and Bellatrix (loyal and vicious).
Of course, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe she only acts loyally to advance her position, but I just seem to read it as true devotion to her lord.
But Reggie, as to killing Sirius... whether or not she knew, she did taunt Harry about it, which makes me think she at least knew she did more than knock him off his feet, and from her tone as she teases Harry, I'd say she thought it was more funny than sad. Not that I've read that book in some time, so maybe I remembered wrong.
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Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:32 pm
CaptainJames The important thing about this I think is, "absolute evil" would entail things like selfishness and lack of ability to love/care about others. Okay, this aggravated me. Being selfish does not mean someone is evil. Selfishness is something everyone has. I am selfish. I do not go far out of my way to help people. I never want children, because I'm a selfish b***h. I can't stand the little ********, and I'm too lazy to take care of them or contribute anything to them. I am not evil because I am not tripping over myself to help others. It would be nice of me to do it, but frankly, I'd rather not. On that note, Bellatrix is not evil. I think the only truly evil person in the books is Voldemort, and even he I can't see as being totally evil. Bellatrix certainly enjoys causing others pain and holds loyalty above all else, but she cares about the people important to her. I don't think she fears death. I wouldn't expect her to think about it much, actually. The ones who fear death are the ones who cause it. That is, people who are most afraid of death tend to be people like Voldemort, who go around killing people. I think Bella fears pain--whether it be emotional or physical. Perhaps something in her childhood?
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Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 5:57 pm
I believe she fears death, just not her own. The people she cares about, her family, possibly Voldemort, but not herself, as Ernie said.
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Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 7:14 pm
[Ernie] CaptainJames The important thing about this I think is, "absolute evil" would entail things like selfishness and lack of ability to love/care about others. Okay, this aggravated me. Being selfish does not mean someone is evil. Selfishness is something everyone has. I am selfish. I do not go far out of my way to help people. I never want children, because I'm a selfish b***h. I can't stand the little ********, and I'm too lazy to take care of them or contribute anything to them. I am not evil because I am not tripping over myself to help others. It would be nice of me to do it, but frankly, I'd rather not. Naturally, being selfish does not mean being evil. What I meant was, I think an evil person would be totally selfish, which Bellatrix does not seem to be. Now, I am selfish at times too, but I still consider selfish acts to fall on the negative side of morality. Of course, it's just my opinion and maybe you don't agree. But I do believe that a truly evil person would be selfish because I do happen to think that selflessness is generally a loving trait, and something an evil person would be incapable of. But since Bellatrix is capable of selflessness, I say she isn't 100% evil. Believe me, I'm a Peter fan. I certainly don't think self-preservation and/or selfishness are evil. I also don't think that not wanting children is selfish. But, hey, I'm not trying to shove my ideas on anyone. If we disagree, we disagree.
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Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 12:18 pm
CaptainJames [Ernie] CaptainJames The important thing about this I think is, "absolute evil" would entail things like selfishness and lack of ability to love/care about others. Okay, this aggravated me. Being selfish does not mean someone is evil. Selfishness is something everyone has. I am selfish. I do not go far out of my way to help people. I never want children, because I'm a selfish b***h. I can't stand the little ********, and I'm too lazy to take care of them or contribute anything to them. I am not evil because I am not tripping over myself to help others. It would be nice of me to do it, but frankly, I'd rather not. Naturally, being selfish does not mean being evil. What I meant was, I think an evil person would be totally selfish, which Bellatrix does not seem to be. Now, I am selfish at times too, but I still consider selfish acts to fall on the negative side of morality. Of course, it's just my opinion and maybe you don't agree. But I do believe that a truly evil person would be selfish because I do happen to think that selflessness is generally a loving trait, and something an evil person would be incapable of. But since Bellatrix is capable of selflessness, I say she isn't 100% evil. Believe me, I'm a Peter fan. I certainly don't think self-preservation and/or selfishness are evil. I also don't think that not wanting children is selfish. But, hey, I'm not trying to shove my ideas on anyone. If we disagree, we disagree.
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Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 2:44 pm
Oh, no problem. 3nodding
Btw, I love your sig, the one with Bunny and Piccolo.
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Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 5:35 pm
I think that Bella fearing pain because of something in her childhood is a good theory. As we know, growing up as a Black can't have been all sunshine and roses, even for a favourite who did as she was taught. And although we haven't heard anything about her time at school (except for a fanfic I read where shes Lily's nemesis and is obsessively in love with James at Hogwarts)(and I think it said somewhere in the books that the Lestranges were part of the gang Snape hung out with, the one where almost all of them became Death Eaters), its very likely that in her time at school she was shunned by people like Lily, Remus, Sirius, and James, who hated the Dark Arts. The latter sentence may not seem relevant but it is just to show that at home and at school she was probably both emotionally abused and outrageously favoured.(By anti-dark and pro-darks respectively)
Well this whole post is just musing and I can't really back much of it up. But oh well.
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Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 9:55 pm
CaptainJames Oh, no problem. 3nodding Btw, I love your sig, the one with Bunny and Piccolo. Acidic Cynic think that Bella fearing pain because of something in her childhood is a good theory. As we know, growing up as a Black can't have been all sunshine and roses, even for a favourite who did as she was taught. And although we haven't heard anything about her time at school (except for a fanfic I read where shes Lily's nemesis and is obsessively in love with James at Hogwarts)(and I think it said somewhere in the books that the Lestranges were part of the gang Snape hung out with, the one where almost all of them became Death Eaters), its very likely that in her time at school she was shunned by people like Lily, Remus, Sirius, and James, who hated the Dark Arts. The latter sentence may not seem relevant but it is just to show that at home and at school she was probably both emotionally abused and outrageously favoured.(By anti-dark and pro-darks respectively) Well this whole post is just musing and I can't really back much of it up. But oh well.
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![ode[2]sokka's avatar](https://a1cdn.gaiaonline.com/dress-up/avatar/ava/53/30/79101064233053_flip.png?t=1226939073_6.00_11)
![[Ernie]'s avatar](https://a1cdn.gaiaonline.com/dress-up/avatar/ava/92/33/c08bbf4183392_flip.png?t=1464681375_6.00_00)
