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 Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 4:04 pm
I'm not trying to imply anything with this post. They're just some random thoughts I had and happend to write down. I'm not even sure what I think about this yet. Anyway, a few days ago in my English class we were discussing Heart of Darkness. These are my notes from that class almost exactly as I wrote them. Da Notes White tomb...reference to hypocrites in the Bible....any tomb in the bible makes one think of "the empty tomb" of Christ. Dumbledore's tomb was white? Coincidence on Jo's part? Dumbledore's tomb similar to Christ's meaning it's empty or Dumbledore's tomb white symbolizing hypocrisy? So...anyone got anything to say about that? I would post this on the subforum, but due to my wish to avoid religious conflict there...it goes here instead!
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Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 4:33 pm
That is interesting. No one saw what was in the casket. We just saw it inflame and a pheonix shape appeared above it. I believe the smilie between when flawkes died, his body inflames and it is reborn from it's ashes, is suppose to foreshadow Dumbledores return ^^
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Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 5:05 pm
I don't you'd have religious conflict in the subforum. Just a bunch of "omgz ur a cristshun we rnt goin 2 hel f**" or "ooh cool wuts ur point?".
And that is why I started LAMPS.
Yes, CoCo has a good point. It was never mentioned what was in the casket (well, it was supposedly Dumbledore's body, but it was wrapped up, so we don't even know if that was Dumbldore's body). MithrandirIstariWeasley posted a link to a pretty cool site with some intrigueing theories in the DSHPG.
http://www.dumbledoreisnotdead.com/introduction.html
:B
While I doubt that Dumbledore is alive, I believe he (and possibly Sirius) will make some sort of come back long for a certain amount of time, like Gandalf or something.
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Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 5:39 pm
[Ernie] I don't you'd have religious conflict in the subforum. Just a bunch of "omgz ur a cristshun we rnt goin 2 hel f**" or "ooh cool wuts ur point?". That's exactly why I didn't post it there. That's just...annoying. I don't mean anything about it, it just seemed like to much of a coincidence.
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Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 8:21 pm
As we know the chapter is called "The White Tomb". Unless your a borderline retard. Now, the colour white is nearly always associated with purification, birth and all that is good, now doesn't that sound like the Dumby we know?
White has also been an important colour, for a woman or man who has lost their virginity and would like to religiously become a virgin again, they were a white robe and a priest would dunk (Can't find a very proper word for dunk) them in a lake until they are almost short of breath before letting them come up and will there on in be a virgin in religious eyes.
Dumbledore and was placed in a white tomb near a lake. This could be a symbol of rebirth, like Gandalf in Lord of The Rings. It may be a long-shot but that is one theory I have come up with.
Another, more popular theory is the fire that is associated with it that My Consicence has already stated. The phoenix had always been synbolic of rebirth and continuity of life. Some stories say that the phoenix lays an egg every 2000 years before bursting into flames. The ash keeps the egg warm before it hatches again. In OOtP, Voldemort used the killing curse against Fawkes, who turns into a insta-chick, he did NOT die.
I only just thought up this theory as I was typing this. Voldemort could possible think that Dumbledore was immortal. Maybe that was why he feared him? There must be a billion reasons why this would not work, but Voldy-Shorts is a rather stupidly foolish character, standing on a pedestal of arrogance.
My post probably had no significance but it killed time and made me feel intelligent and my ego purrs with delight.
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Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 6:04 pm
RegulusofSlytherin [Ernie] I don't you'd have religious conflict in the subforum. Just a bunch of "omgz ur a cristshun we rnt goin 2 hel f**" or "ooh cool wuts ur point?". That's exactly why I didn't post it there. That's just...annoying. I don't mean anything about it, it just seemed like to much of a coincidence.
*pets Lunar's purring ego*
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Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 2:13 pm
Just going to point out that where you're talking about in the Bible, Jesus was referring to the superficiality of the Pharisees and saying that they were whitewashed tombs. So bascially, the pureness concerning the Pharisees was a facade since whitewashed isn't white, just painted to look that way.
Perhaps in this situation you could refer to Scrimgeour's superhuman superficiality, always wearing a mask...mask(possible?), a facade of his true feelings, a PR show for the public.
edit:I just realized that that's what Regulus was saying redface . I think maybe Scrimgeour's PR. I have no doubt that he's still continuing the fine traditions of leaning on the Prophet (Rita Skeeter) and accepting bribes (Sirius and Arthur) and letting criminals go for inside information (McGonnagal and Umbridge). How could I forget tentative nepitism?
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Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 2:25 pm
flying_wings Just going to point out that where you're talking about in the Bible, Jesus was referring to the superficiality of the Pharisees and saying that they were whitewashed tombs. So bascially, the pureness concerning the Pharisees was a facade since whitewashed isn't white, just painted to look that way. Perhaps in this situation you could refer to Scrimgeour's superhuman superficiality, always wearing a mask...mask(possible?), a facade of his true feelings, a PR show for the public. edit:I just realized that that's what Regulus was saying redface . I think maybe Scrimgeour's PR. I have no doubt that he's still continuing the fine traditions of leaning on the Prophet (Rita Skeeter) and accepting bribes (Sirius and Arthur) and letting criminals go for inside information (McGonnagal and Umbridge). How could I forget tentative nepitism? I was wondering when someone was going to point out that that was what Reggie had meant all along. In this argument, white is not a sign of purity but of false purity. Question, what do you mean by tentative nepotism? Where?
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Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 2:48 pm
Joie D flying_wings Just going to point out that where you're talking about in the Bible, Jesus was referring to the superficiality of the Pharisees and saying that they were whitewashed tombs. So bascially, the pureness concerning the Pharisees was a facade since whitewashed isn't white, just painted to look that way. Perhaps in this situation you could refer to Scrimgeour's superhuman superficiality, always wearing a mask...mask(possible?), a facade of his true feelings, a PR show for the public. edit:I just realized that that's what Regulus was saying redface . I think maybe Scrimgeour's PR. I have no doubt that he's still continuing the fine traditions of leaning on the Prophet (Rita Skeeter) and accepting bribes (Sirius and Arthur) and letting criminals go for inside information (McGonnagal and Umbridge). How could I forget tentative nepitism? I was wondering when someone was going to point out that that was what Reggie had meant all along. In this argument, white is not a sign of purity but of false purity. Question, what do you mean by tentative nepotism? Where? I'm talking about Harry possibly being an Auror. From trying to expell him anytime possible to saying we want you work for us. One second, Patronus Potter, and another second to the Boy Who Lived. They went from tripping over themselves to get him expelled to employing him. Favoritism to a degree that he wouldn't have to do those aptitude tests and all that studying?
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Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 2:57 pm
flying_wings Joie D flying_wings Just going to point out that where you're talking about in the Bible, Jesus was referring to the superficiality of the Pharisees and saying that they were whitewashed tombs. So bascially, the pureness concerning the Pharisees was a facade since whitewashed isn't white, just painted to look that way. Perhaps in this situation you could refer to Scrimgeour's superhuman superficiality, always wearing a mask...mask(possible?), a facade of his true feelings, a PR show for the public. edit:I just realized that that's what Regulus was saying redface . I think maybe Scrimgeour's PR. I have no doubt that he's still continuing the fine traditions of leaning on the Prophet (Rita Skeeter) and accepting bribes (Sirius and Arthur) and letting criminals go for inside information (McGonnagal and Umbridge). How could I forget tentative nepitism? I was wondering when someone was going to point out that that was what Reggie had meant all along. In this argument, white is not a sign of purity but of false purity. Question, what do you mean by tentative nepotism? Where? I'm talking about Harry possibly being an Auror. From trying to expell him anytime possible to saying we want you work for us. One second, Patronus Potter, and another second to the Boy Who Lived. They went from tripping over themselves to get him expelled to employing him. Favoritism to a degree that he wouldn't have to do those aptitude tests and all that studying? Erm, you do realise that "nepotism" is promoting members of your own family, right? That's what confused me. I was wondering if Brutus Scrimgeour had showed up somewhere other than Quidditch Through the Ages
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Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:45 pm
Well, OK, extreme favoritism. Enough to get Harry who was being publicly considered as a delirious-crazy-psychotic-delusional boy barely six months beforehand; and now they're trying to hire him. That's scary. Especially since they were the ones who instigated such rumors. Scrimgeour even said that it all comes down to the people's perspective in A Very Frosty Christmas.
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Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 3:19 pm
Okay, we know Scrimgeour is a d**k. But I'm very interested in this point Reg seems to be making, that the white of Dumbledore's tomb implies a facade, to hide... Dumbledore's continued existence? Or that there is a connection to Christ's tomb, which was empty, because Christ rose again? There are a few possibilities here:
1) Dumbledore rises again as a ghost. I don't think this is very likely, after listening to Nearly-Headless Nick's account of how to become a ghost, and Dumbledore's interpretation of death. Wouldn't Dumbledore be the kind of wizard to embrace wholeheartedly the "next big adventure" of death, and trust those he has left behind to get the job done, rather than trying to stay after his time and suffer the endless regrets of a ghost.
2) It is a hint of where he has gone. Christ rose again, yes, but it's also implied that he came down from Heaven, and then went back up there again. So the White Tomb could be a reference to Christ in the context that he went to Heaven. Just a poignant aknowledgement that Dumbledore was a great person, and he's gone to a better place.
3) Dumbledore isn't really dead. He faked his own death. The White Tomb is indeed a reference to Christ's empty tomb, in the context that Dumbledore's tomb is also empty, and he will "rise again", or seem to, when he reveals his continued existence to his very surprised followers.
I'm not really into that last theory. Everyone is getting so caught up in proving that he is still alive, and no one is asking why. Why would he do that? What is the point? Yes, his death made Harry realise that he needed to rely on himself now, not on his hero, and he grew up alot as a result, but then what? Dumbledore comes back and takes the reigns again? It's not in his character to do something like that, and it's also not Jo's style.
I'm more into the second option, as it makes more sense to me and it is sweet.
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Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 3:23 pm
I hadn't thought about the second option. I rather like that!
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Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 3:55 pm
Thanks biggrin
What do you think about the last thing I said? Any thoughts on why Dumbledore might want to fake his own death? Just for interest; I am firmly convinced of my number 2 theory.
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Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:21 pm
That is the reason I don't put any stock in the fact that he is alive. There is no rhyme or reason for him being so.
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