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 Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 5:08 am
We all have our problems in an RP. Perhaps a small dissagreement or a concern, or maybe you just wanna chat a little! I decided to make this thread so we can let loose just a bit, and have a place where the RPing isn't neccesary.
If there is an issue in the RP, it can be brought up here. But bare in mind, you can make your concerns aware, but bare your anger to yourself. Sarcasm, childish insults, blunt cursing, or anything of that in general is not needed. =P Basically, this will be a place where things can be talked about civily and we can work out any roleplaying issues that occur. If it's something about accuracy to the manga, someone suggesting something or godmodding or... well, anything in general that may not seem right, just talk it over here, I'll be here to try and resolve it. Like I said though; calm and civil. This is where we fix problems so we can all be happy, not bring up hate or anger. ^_^
Also, this is a place we can just chat a little. Maybe you have some roleplaying plot you'd like to discuss, or maybe you've made all your posts but just feel like talking a bit more. Or really; whatever.
Overall, this is a place to 'unwind' a little. But again, I'll be moderating this if things get out of hand, but let's keep anything like that from having to happen. A lot of people here are good friends, so I doubt that'll happen. 3nodding
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Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 5:56 pm
Woo! I took the thread's cherry heart
So...
OH MY GOD I LEFT THE FRIDGE OPEN!
So, how is everyone this evening/morning/night/afternoon?
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Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:12 am
Guns versus Swords.....
*starts off saying those who don't practice both and only advocates one is opening oneself to a whole net or trouble*
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Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:30 pm
So are we going to hash out the Shinmei Ryu's techniques v. projectile weapons?
(I probably should check the Cinema Village thread before I continue with this.)
...And I'm back.
OK, first off I have seen what happens when a bullet is fired at a katana, the bullet splits. (I've seen this on a couple of different Discovery Channel shows and before this is dismissed out of hand, I mean really, where else would you see this kind of thing? The only other time I've seen it was on a Japanese show called "Izumi no Trivia.") The metals that compose a bullet have nothing against the metals that compose a sword. Kinetic energy is all well and good, but in the end, mass is the limiter. You don't have the mass, you can't pack the punch.
I've seen the time trials between gunslingers and iaido practitioners. The differences are in milliseconds, but the sword-wielders win. I should add through that in the time it takes to execute a sword strike, the gunslinger has usually emptied all six chambers--yes this was a time trial with revolvers. hands versus hands.
The following is all real-world stuff. I would not be surprised to find it on YouTube (I can't check, I'm at work). All of this does go out the window in the world of Negima.
All the ki users seem to wrap their weapon of choice in ki (everyone remember Setsuna going into battle with a deck brush?) and once you do that any real-world qualities go on vacation.
The weapons in the world of Negima have a kind of sensibility (I'm not just talking about the ones that strip people naked like Tanaka's Boomer-style mouth laser, the Martian juggernauts beam weaponry, Negi's sneezes or disarm spells, etc.) that don't and can't really invite real-world comparisons.
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Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:10 pm
So, a 6 barreled revolver with little to no recoil compensators or springs that mechanically harness the recoil to not only lower the ammount of felt recoil but also chamber a round was used?
Interesting. I'm fine with that. Knowing that the three gunslingers there are using semi-automatics and all three should be really good close quarters battle types. I mean, who would use a handgun for long range shots, unless you used a modified one like Katerine's Thompson Center Arms pistol.
The point I was making with the kinetic energy is that it has to be transfered somewhere, and that somewhere is to the blade, and to the wielder's hands and wrists. Consider this. A police officer being shot with a .45 while wearing a kevlar or similar bullet vest will not have it penetrate, but it'll still feel the effects of the round's kinetic energy that had built up upon being fired from a gun.
Take into consideration, what rounds Katerine uses. .45ACP, Match Loading. The very best propellant and bullet every put into a cartridge. The .45 ACP was created for pure stopping power. So yes, while the sword can take the brunt of a bullet, the bullet wasn't really meant to penetrate, but to wound and knock the wind out of you. (Well, the reason was that the .38 Calibre was too weak to knock down Moro warriors back in the Philippine-American Insurrection/War/etc.., who often need to be shot several times for their drugged up brains to even realize they got shot.)
Now, say that Katerine uses her Kimber, and Tsukuyomi deflects her round with a sword parry. Maybe the sword will be scratched, but I can say that Tsu's wrist will be sore by the time Katerine empties a magazine. But then again, if Tsu cut the round in half, which seems likely, I highly doubt she'll survive now two unequal pieces of the bullet in flight, still going where they were. But if the user would some how angle it so the sword is deflected without being cut in half...well, I'd like to see how someone would be able to deflect semi-automatic fire for a projectile going 310 meters/second.
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Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:22 pm
Okay i feel i should just step in, all your stuff is based on Real world aspects. This is Negima universe and Ken Akamatsu who made this world dictated that the shinmeiryu had techniqes that could deflect multiple bullets from any kind of weapon, even lasers at one point if you looked at the Love Hina universe motoko's sister deflected a laser cannon powered by a nuclear generator with her sword and it wasn't even out yet still in its sheath. There are alot of things that wont work in the real world that manage to work out here. Sure im not gonna make it where Tsuku will walk all over your group but she will not be shot by a person just because there are 3 v 1. Its really just that she is using a style of sword that is very powerful and she is very skilled at it so just shooting bullets at her isn't going to work. Oh and before you add the 'i have exploding rounds and all kinds of things' remember there are still bystandards near by and im pretty sure firing something like that will bring the police/self defense force and anyone else around since you will harm people if say she moved near them.
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Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:27 pm
Only thing is, Katerine is not using a standard weapon that will put her into suspect with the Kyoto Prefectural Police Department. All she needs is a mag switch to replace the pellets with regular 6mm .25g BBs and she'll be off the hook.
I'm talking about what if she used her .45 ACP, which I've stressed time and time again she has papers documenting her ownership and participation in handgun sports.
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Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:35 pm
Saying that Tsukuyomi is a bullet-deflecting juggernaut just because Tsuruko is one is a gross misstatement of power. Tsuruko is the Grand Master of Shinmeiryu, the most powerful swordswoman of the style in many recent generations. As an aside, Tsuruko did not reflect Kaolla's plasma cannon with her blade itself, the shots seemed to refract of an unexplained shield that materialized in front of Tsuruko, possibly a ki or magical shield, but I digress.
Tsukuyomi, on the other hand, is an amateur of the Shinmeiryu style, not as powerful as Setsuna, who is not as powerful as Motoko, who is not as powerful as Tsuruko (by a degree of magnitude). By comparison, the two Shinmei characters I have, Seno and Kagami, fit in with Seno being an equal to Motoko, and Kagami falling close behind them, but better than Setsuna.
Even Kagami's ability to deflect projectile attacks is not going to let her stop three people shooting at her. She could stop one of them emptying their magazines, but that's because she doesn't cut bullets in half like an idiot. She strikes them at oblique angles with her sword to deflect them away from her, at once reducing the wear on her sword and on her own body.
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Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:42 pm
So the fact that she is a trained person and one of three children within the style makes her a amateur? If you read on in the series she is strong enough that she can take down several people that are skilled in many styles. To say that she is a juggernaut is smoething I didn't say, I only stated that she wouldn't loose because 3 gun slinging people are fighting her by shooting at her. There are other ways to deflect bullets than just the sword and you have stated a few, Ki is one and that alone can be used in so many ways.
@JP she may be allowed to use the gun in competition but firing it in the street is a whole nother matter . Thats like saying I have permission to use this rifle in a tournament situation so ill walk down the street with it, the police will still stop you because you have a gun in public. Firing the thing would just make that situation worse.
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Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:47 pm
Allow me to throw in my two cents; which has been agreed upon by ShadowOfIce. Feel free to contact him if you do not believe me.
Negima is fantasy. As long as the concept of fantasy exists, the rules are free to bend. Getting into a heavy real-world discussion about firearms vs swords (the former of which I'm not too happy about the large amount present anyway >.>) is really not worth the effort.
As long as a weapon fires any sort of physical projectile or beam, it will, as shocking as it may seem, be subject to being flawed. A projectile can be deflected or blocked - all it needs is something in the way. Arrows can be snatched in midair, grenades can be blown away with a blast of heavily compressed air, and a bullet can be blocked by a sword.
Just because you have knowledge of real-world firearm mechanics does not make you Die Ubermensch. Everyone has flaws. Negi has Flaws, Xenon has flaws, even Cassandra has flaws.
Remember: You aren't soldiers. You are students. Stop putting so much emphasis on the firearms logic and remember that Negima is set in a Fantasy world. The number of bullets being fired at the person is irrelevant - if they were skilled enough to parry one shot, they could easily parry multiple ones.
Verdict, as decided by both Chachamaru V2 & ShadowOfIce:
Bullets can be blocked by swords - but if it is done to an abusive degree, the Crew will step in and point it out. Rules 1 & 2 apply to this decision.
Rule 1.
The DM is Always Right.
Rule 2.
In the event that the DM is wrong, see Rule 1.
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Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:01 pm
Ori'buyce, kih'kovid.
-Goes off to ruin some days-
EDIT: No, I stated why Tsukuyomi is an amateur at Shinmeiryu, and I even used comparisons of known and unknown characters.
And speaking of known characters, I forgot about Kuzunoha. I consider her to be a few levels lower than Tsuruko, but more powerful than Motoko.
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Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:07 pm
@ all:
Once again...she's currently using an airsoft rifle. And she won't use said weapon unless it's in a situation like the night before in the train station. And I'm not in character, surprisingly. If I was...Katerine would most likely be spititng out more gun facts due to the fact she is a biathlete and pistol shooter. Who entrusts a gun to someone without knowledge on how it works?
@chacha
Besides, her main strenght is firearms shooting, her weakness is inability to correctly harness her own magical energy. A trait that, might I remind you ma'am, you passed. Her weakness in magic makes her vulnerable to her strenght in firearms/technology. Once Technology/firearms are pulled from under Katerine, her magic potential is crap.
And for the sword blocking bullet thing, it's nice and all, but it didn't save all those Imperial Japanese Army/Navy officers who led banzai charges against Allied positions with green GIs shootign their M1 Carbine, M1 Garand, M1 Thompson, or M1911A1 sidearms.
And back to the parry multiple shots thing. What is the opponent in question is using a shotgun? Using 12 ga buckshot. Any smart swordie will duck and cover and wait.
Besides, I'm not a true gunslinger anyways. I believe anything, from store bought chemicals to a Wun-Fife-Fife-Mike-Mike Howitzer is preferable when you wanna get rid of someone.
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Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:51 pm
My Kiraza sense is tingling. Guess that's all I'll remark on the matter now, heh.. heart
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Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:56 pm
Hehe...Kiraza....how is he anyways? I haven't nuked his planet inawhile. I'm probably too old to go back to future roleplay.
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