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 Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 5:42 pm
Praise be to Allaah.
Definition:
Qadianiyyah is a movement that started in 1900 CE as a plot by the British colonialists in the Indian subcontinent, with the aim of diverting Muslims away from their religion and from the obligation of jihaad in particular, so that they would not oppose colonialism in the name of Islam. The mouthpiece of this movement is the magazine Majallat Al-Adyaan (Magazine if Religions) which was published in English.
Foundation and prominent personalities:
Mirza Ghulam Ahmad al-Qadiani (1839-1908 CE) was the main tool by means of which Qadianiyyah was founded. He was born in the village of Qadian, in the Punjab, in India, in 1839 CE. He came from a family that was well known for having betrayed its religion and country, so Ghulam Ahmad grew up loyal and obedient to the colonialists in every sense. Thus he was chosen for the role of a so-called prophet, so that the Muslims would gather around him and he would distract them from waging jihaad against the English colonialists. The British government did lots of favours for them, so they were loyal to the British. Ghulam Ahmad was known among his followers to be unstable, with a lot of health problems and dependent on drugs.
Among those who confronted him and his evil da’wah was Shaykh Abu’l-Wafa’ Thana’ al-Amritsari, the leader of Jama’iyyat Ahl al-Hadeeth fi ‘Umoom al-Hind (The All-India Society of Ahl al-Hadeeth). The Shaykh debated with him and refuted his arguments, revealing his ulterior motives and Kufr and the deviation of his way. When Ghulam Ahmad did not come to his senses, Shaykh Abu’l-Wafa’ challenged him to come together and invoke the curse of Allaah, such that the one who was lying would die in the lifetime of the one who was telling the truth. Only a few days passed before Mirza Ghulam Ahmad al-Qadiani died, in 1908 CE, leaving behind more than fifty books, pamphlets and articles, among the most important of which are: Izaalat al-Awhaam (Dispelling illusions), I’jaaz Ahmadi (Ahmadi miracles), Baraaheen Ahmadiyyah (Ahmadi proofs), Anwaar al-Islam (Lights of Islam), I’jaaz al-Maseeh (Miracles of the Messiah), al-Tableegh (Conveying (the message))and Tajalliyyaat Ilaahiyyah (Divine manifestations).
Noor al-Deen (Nuruddin): the first Khaleefah of the Qadianis. The British put the crown of Khilaafah on his head, so the disciples (of Ghulam Ahmad) followed him. Among his books is: Fasl al-Khitaab (Definitive statement).
Muhammad Ali and Khojah Kamaal al-Deen: the two leaders of the Lahore Qadianis. They are the ones who gave the final shape to the movement. The former produced a distorted translation into English of the Qur’aan. His other works include: Haqeeqat al-Ikhtilaaf (The reality of differences), al-Nubuwwah fi’l-Islam (Prophethood in Islam) and al-Deen al-Islami (The Islamic religion). As for Khojah Kamaal al-Deen, he wrote a book called al-Mathal al-A’laa fi’l-Anbiya’ (The highest example of the Prophets), and other books. This Lahore group of Ahmadis are those who think of Ghulam Ahmad as a Mujaddid (renewer or reviver of Islam) only, but both groups are viewed as a single movement because odd ideas that are not seen in the one will surely be found in the other.
Muhammad Ali: the leader of the Lahore Qadianis. He was one of those who gave the final shape to Qadianiyyah, a colonialist spy and the person in charge of the magazine which was the voice of the Qadianiyyah. He also produced a distorted translation into English of the Qur’aan. Among his works are Haqeeqat al-Ikhtilaaf (The reality of differences), and al-Nubuwwah fi’l-Islam (Prophethood in Islam), as stated above.
Muhammad Saadiq, the mufti of the Qadianiyyah. His works include: Khatim al-Nabiyyeen The seal of the Prophets).
Basheer Ahmad ibn Ghulam. His works include: Seerat al-Mahdi (the life of the Mahdi) and Kalimat al-Fasl (Decisive word).
Mahmood Ahmad ibn Ghulam, his second Khaleefah. Among his works are: Anwaar al-Khilaafah (Lights of the caliphate), Tuhfat al-Mulook and Haqeeqat al-Nubuwwah (The reality of prophethood).
The appointment of the Qadiani Zafar-Allaah Khan as the first Foreign Minister of Pakistan had a major effect in supporting this deviant sect, as he gave them a large area in the province of the Punjab to be their world headquarters, which they named Rabwah (high ground) as in the aayah (interpretation of the meaning): “… And We gave them refuge on high ground (rabwah), a place of rest, security and flowing streams.” [al-Mu’minoon 23:50].
Their thought and beliefs
Ghulam Ahmad began his activities as an Islamic daa’iyah (caller to Islam) so that he could gather followers around him, then he claimed to be a mujaddid inspired by Allaah. Then he took a further step and claimed to be the Awaited Mahdi and the Promised Messiah. Then he claimed to be a Prophet and that his prophethood was higher than that of Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).
The Qadianis believe that Allaah fasts, prays, sleeps, wakes up, writes, makes mistakes and has intercourse – exalted be Allaah far above all that they say.
The Qadiani believes that his god is English because he speaks to him in English.
The Qadianis believe that Prophethood did not end with Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), but that it is ongoing, and that Allaah sends a messenger when there is a need, and that Ghulam Ahmad is the best of all the Prophets.
They believe that Jibreel used to come down to Ghulam Ahmad and that he used to bring revelation to him, and that his inspirations are like the Qur’aan.
They say that there is no Qur’aan other than what the “Promised Messiah” (Ghulam Ahmad) brought, and no hadeeth except what is in accordance with his teachings, and no Prophet except under the leadership of Ghulam Ahmad.
They believe that their book was revealed. Its name is al-Kitaab al-Mubeen and it is different from the Holy Qur’aan.
They believe that they are followers of a new and independent religion and an independent Sharee’ah, and that the friends of Ghulam are like the Sahaabah.
They believe that Qadian is like Madeenah and Makkah, if not better than them, and that its land is sacred. It is their Qiblah and the place they make hajj to.
They called for the abolition of jihaad and blind obedience to the British government because, as they claimed, the British were “those in authority” as stated in the Qur’aan.
In their view every Muslim is a Kaafir unless he becomes a Qadiani, and everyone who married a non-Qadiani is also a kaafir.
They allow alcohol, opium, drugs and intoxicants.
Intellectual and ideological roots
The westernizing movement of Sir Sayyid Ahmad Khan paved the way for the emergence of the Qadianiyyah, because it had already spread deviant ideas.
The British made the most of this opportunity so they started the Qadiani movement and chose a man from a family that had a history of being agents of the colonialists.
In 1953 CE, there was a popular revolution in Pakistan which demanded the removal of Zafar-Allaah Khan from the position of Foreign Minister and that the Qadiani sect should be regarded as a non-Muslim minority. In this uprising around ten thousand Muslims were martyred, and they succeeded in having the Qadiani minister removed from office.
In Rabee’ al-Awwal 1394 AH (April 1974), a major conference was held by the Muslim World League in Makkah, which was attended by representatives of Muslim organizations from around the world. This conference announced that this sect is Kaafir and is beyond the pale of Islam, and told Muslims to resist its dangers and not to cooperate with the Qadianis or bury their dead in Muslim graveyards.
The Majlis al-Ummah in Pakistan (the central parliament) debated with the Qadiani leader Mirza Naasir Ahmad, and he was refuted by Shaykh Mufti Mahmood (may Allaah have mercy on him). The debate went on for nearly thirty hours but Naasir Ahmad was unable to give answers and the Kufr of this group was exposed, so the Majlis issued a statement that the Qadianis should be regarded as a non-Muslim minority.
Among the factors that make Mirza Ghulam Ahmad an obvious Kaafir are the following:
His claim to be a Prophet
His abolition of the duty of jihaad, to serve the interests of the colonialists.
His saying that people should no longer go on Hajj to Makkah, and his substitution of Qadian as the place of pilgrimage.
His anthropomorphism or likening Allaah to human beings.
His belief in the transmigration of souls and incarnation.
His attributing a son to Allaah and his claim to be the son of God.
His denying that Prophethood ended with Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and his regarding the door of Prophethood to be open to “any Tom, d**k or Harry”.
The Qadianis have strong ties with Israel. Israel has opened centres and schools for them, and helped them to publish a magazine which is their mouthpiece, to print books and publications for distribution worldwide.
The fact that they are influenced by Judaism, Christianity and al-Baatiniyyah is clear from their beliefs and practices, even though they claim to be Muslims.
Their spread and positions of influence
Most of the Qadianis nowadays live in India and Pakistan, with a few in Israel and the Arab world. They are trying, with the help of the colonialists, to obtain sensitive positions in all the places where they live.
The Qadianis are very active in Africa and in some western countries. In Africa they have more than 5,000 teachers and dai’yahs working full-time to call people to Qadianiyyah. Their wide-spread activity proves that they have the support of the colonialists.
The British government is also supporting this movement and making it easy for their followers to get positions in world governments, corporate administration and consulates. Some of them are also high-ranking officers in the secret services.
In calling people to their beliefs, the Qadianis use all kinds of methods, especially educational means, because they are highly-educated and there are many scientists, engineers and doctors in their ranks. In Britain there is a satellite TV channel called Islamic TV which is run by the Qadianis.
From the above, it is clear that:
Qadianiyyah is a misguided group, which is not part of Islam at all. Its beliefs are completely contradictory to Islam, so Muslims should beware of their activities, since the ‘Ulama’ (scholars) of Islam have stated that they are Kaafirs.
For more information see: Al-Qadianiyyah by Ihsaan Ilaahi Zaheer.
(Translator’s note: this book is available in English under the title “Qadiyaniat: an analytical survey” by Ehsan Elahi Zaheer)
Reference: Al-Mawsoo’ah al-Muyassarah fi’l-Adyaan al-Madhaahib wa’l-Ahzaab al-Mu’aasirah by Dr. Maani’ Hammad al-Juhani, 1/419-423
The following statement was published by the Islamic Fiqh Council (Majma’ al-Fiqh al-Islami):
After discussing the question put to the Islamic Fiqh Council in Capetown, South Africa, concerning the ruling on the Qadianis and their off-shoot which is known as Lahoriyyah, and whether they should be counted as Muslims or not, and whether a non-Muslim is qualified to examine an issue of this nature:
In the light of research and documents presented to the members of the council concerning Mirza Ghulam Ahmad al-Qadiani, who emerged in India in the last century and to whom is attributed the Qadiani and Lahori movements, and after pondering the information presented on these two groups, and after confirming that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad claimed to be a prophet who received revelation, a claim which is documented in his own writings and speeches, some of which he claimed to have received as revelation, a claim which he propagated all his life and asked people to believe in, just as it is also well-known that he denied many other things which are proven to be essential elements of the religion of Islam
in the light of the above, the Council issued the following statement:
Firstly: the claims of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad to be a prophet or a messenger and to receive revelation are clearly a rejection of proven and essential elements of Islam, which unequivocally states that Prophethood ended with Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and that no revelation will come to anyone after him. This claim made by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad makes him and anyone who agrees with him an apostate who is beyond the pale of Islam. As for the Lahoriyyah, they are like the Qadianiyyah: the same ruling of apostasy applies to them despite the fact that they described Mirza Ghulam Ahmad as a shadow and manifestation of our Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).
Secondly: it is not appropriate for a non-Muslim court or judge to give a ruling on who is a Muslim and who is an apostate, especially when this goes against the consensus of the scholars and organizations of the Muslim Ummah. Rulings of this nature are not acceptable unless they are issued by a Muslim scholar who knows all the requirements for being considered a Muslim, who knows when a person may be deemed to have overstepped the mark and become an apostate, who understands the realities of Islam and kufr, and who has comprehensive knowledge of what is stated in the Qur’aan, Sunnah and scholarly consensus. The ruling of a court of that nature is invalid. And Allaah knows best.
Majma’ al-Fiqh al-Islami, p. 13
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Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 3:13 am
you should post more....how bout the ahmadiyat post about them 2 please
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Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 2:08 pm
LoGa Knight Praise be to Allaah. Definition: Qadianiyyah is a movement that started in 1900 CE as a plot by the British colonialists in the Indian subcontinent, with the aim of diverting Muslims away from their religion and from the obligation of jihaad in particular, so that they would not oppose colonialism in the name of Islam. The mouthpiece of this movement is the magazine Majallat Al-Adyaan (Magazine if Religions) which was published in English. That's a lie. And it is funny how today the Muslims used the same arguments that they used before. Now I will start to refute every single thing that you said about Ahmadiyyat which is a lie. Firstly: When Ahmadiyyat (the so called Qadiani movement was created) then the British ruled in India. The British did not have any aims but to control the masses in India (Sikh, Muslim, and Hindu). Though the Christians did have aims to convert the east to Christianity during this period. So when you say that the British had aims to convert Muslims they did not.....they just wanted to control them.......the British had no plan of converting people to Chrisitanity. They did not care about that. But, their were MANY Christian missionaries who came from around the world to convert the east to Chrisitanity. At that time Muslim doctrines and the Holy Prophet (saw) was being attacked by Christians, Hindu's and other religions. No one stood up to defend Islam, as no Muslim at that time cared enough. And your concepts of Jihad is false. At that time the Muslim leaders (as they do today) taught the Muslim people that they should carry out Jihad against the British who were ruling their country. But, this Jihad was wrong. Jihad, as a Holy war can only occur when Muslims are being persecuted and are living in fear of their lives just because they believe in a certain religion. As at the time of the Holy Prophet (saw). The Prophet (saw) never attacked anyone (or any nation unjustly).....and when peace was possible he turned to the choice of peace. Now during the British rule the British were not attacking or persecuting the Muslims at all, nor were the Muslims in fear for their lives. So there was no reason or purpose for a Jihad. Islam, though was being attacked by all sides through words that were spoken and written. So the Jihad that had to occur was the Jihad of the pen which told Muslims that they should defend their faith through religious debates. And the newspaper that you are talking about is false. At that time the people of India (during the British rule) did not know English so no newspaper could be written in English. Maybe, the Christian missionaries could have written a newspaper, but that would have no effect on the general population as they did not know English. The christian missionaries had to learn the languages of India in order to influence the people. At that time the majority of people in India did not get any education. Some people did though, but that was through tutors who had very limited knowledge. And no knowledge of English. At that time period in India no schools were built for the people. The first school that was built in India was built in Qadian by the instruction of Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (as), and was open to all people's even if they were not Muslim. this schools name used to be Talimul Islam High School but teh name was changed later on. Quote: Foundation and prominent personalities: Mirza Ghulam Ahmad al-Qadiani (1839-1908 CE) was the main tool by means of which Qadianiyyah was founded. Firstly, I don't know what your source is but it is wrong. He lived from 1835-1908. And our sect is not caleld Qadiani it is called Ahmadhi. When you say Qadiani, you are only supporting his claim because Qadian is one of India's most prosperous towns nowadays. People from all over the world go to Qadian. And people from all over India go to study in Qadian. Quote: He came from a family that was well known for having betrayed its religion and country, so Ghulam Ahmad grew up loyal and obedient to the colonialists in every sense. That is stupid. His family was well known because it was linked back to the time of Mughal Empire in India, where the family had owned a lot of land and lived their life peacefully. This land at that time was one of the best in India because the Ghulam family collected MANY books and had a very large library. But, when the Mughal Empire period ended all the land was lost.........and till the time of Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (as) the only aim of the family members was to get back all the land that they had lost. Ahmad's (as) father did not care about God until his dying days, and spent all his efforts to get the land back as well. He did not have time to plot against the other Muslims of India because he did not care about them. As Ahmad (as) was growing up he was constantly yelled at by his father for not caring about the family estates. Ahmad (as) in fact did not care about anything worldly. While he was growing up he barely came out of his room, and would be immersed in reading literature and especially the Holy Qur'an.or he would be immersed in prayers. He never knew when it was day or when it was night and he rarely came out of his room. One of his cousins relates that he knew Ahmad's father had two children but he had forgotten since he had never seen Ahmad face to face........so the family forgot that Ahmad even existed.......but that is how Ahmad preferred it. Ahmad (as) was constantly yelled at for not caring about anything and for being useless, and one he was even kicked out of his home for not changing his ways. His mother finally convinced his father to let him return home, and he did. His father was also worried that after his death Ahmad would be thrown into the streets as he did not take up a job to support himself. So when you say that he followed his family views you are very wrong. Quote: Thus he was chosen for the role of a so-called prophet, so that the Muslims would gather around him and he would distract them from waging jihaad against the English colonialists. No that is not why. Allah had chosen this path for him. Ahmad himself says that he was not interested in arguing or debating with people, who would much rather be left alone so that he could pray and read the Holy Qur'an. So why did the majority of Muslims still not wage Jihad against the "evil" British? Because they had no reason to. Quote: The British government did lots of favours for them, so they were loyal to the British. Like what? The only thing that Ahmad's father and brother ever wanted in their lifetimes was that the family estates that were alive during the Mughal Empire be returned to them........as they were rightfully theirs. The British did not even do that for them. And did you realize this verse of the Holy Qur'an or did your relgious leaders keep you ignorant on this aspect as well. "O ye who believe obey God and obey the Prophet and obey those in authority from among you." The Arabic expression "in authority from among you" should not mislead any one into thinking that loyalty to authority is limited only to Muslim authority. No, not at all. The verse teaches obedience to authority as such. "From among" (Arabic min) also means over or of or in. The verse teaches decorum and discipline in public affairs. It makes loyalty to ruling authority an Islamic duty. Ruler and ruled are pictured in the verse as one group. Always, the verse implies, a community or people consist of both rulers and ruled. The ruled owe obedience to the rulers. Quote: Ghulam Ahmad was known among his followers to be unstable, with a lot of health problems and dependent on drugs. No he was not. I can't believe someone actually said that! He was not unstable. The followers of Ahmad (as) saw him as a person who preferred to be in isolation but did not mind company. He was said to be a very kind person....he would always keep his eyes half open and it always looked like he was smiling. He went out of his way to treat his guests with the utmost respect...and offered any comfort which they wanted. He did not have a lot of health problems. Ahmad (as) walked several miles everyday, and preferred to walk somewhere then to take transportation. A person who exercises daily cannot have bad health....that is against the human body system. And he never used drugs even once in his life. If he had his father would have gone berserk and would have permanently kicked him our of his house, as his father cared a lot for family honor. Quote: Among those who confronted him and his evil da’wah And what daw'ah or prayer is evil? Allah only listens to good daw'ah's. Quote: was Shaykh Abu’l-Wafa’ Thana’ al-Amritsari, the leader of Jama’iyyat Ahl al-Hadeeth fi ‘Umoom al-Hind (The All-India Society of Ahl al-Hadeeth). The Shaykh debated with him and refuted his arguments, revealing his ulterior motives and Kufr and the deviation of his way. There was no such person. Search history. There were people who debated or tried to debate against Ahmad (as) but they failed miserably, and it was widespread in India that people should not debate against Ahmad (as) as he was "a kafir, and infidel, a playmate of satan, etc." (as they called him. Ahmad though invited everyone to debate against him and even offered prize money for the winner of the debate. I can get you newspaper references of the time in India to support this claim, if you want. There were a couple of people who debated against him though. Two were Christian, one was a Hindu, and one was Muslim. The people were: Alexander Dowie, who lived in America, and was telling Christians in America that he was the reformer of the age, and he had been chosen as the Promised Messiah of the latter days. He also wrote many inaccurate and vulgar things about Islam. Ahmad (as) after hearing about him sent him a letter to him that said something along the lines of "I challenge you to a prayer duel. Whoever among us is a liar, will die in the other person's lifetime". Dowie turned down the challenge but stated to the press that "I will not up a little vulgar cockroach's request, I am above him and do not have to prove myself through some silly duel." He lived in Zion, but this challenge and the response went widespread throughout America and was recorded in newspapers. (I can give you the newspaper references as well for your convenience if you ask for them.) Ahmad (as) was told by Allah that Dowie would die a painful death and would be dishonored in many ways, and that the city of Zion would fall apart. All these things happened and were recorded in the western newspapers. Abdullah Atham, was another Christian but he lived in India. He had a debate with Ahamd (as) about major issues between Christianity and Islam. During the debate Ahmadh (as) was told by Allah that Atham would die soon if he did not change his views. At this Atham turned pale it is recorded. Later on when he was supposed to die, and he didn't the Christians jeered at Ahmad (as) that his prophecy had been false. At this Ahmad (as) replied that they should first find out where Atham was and find out if his views had been changed. When they found him, he had become an alcoholic, and when asked if his views were changed he told them that he did not have the same view as they did about the divinity of Jesus anymore and that he did not beleive in he concept of Trinity. At this the Christians were shocked, and told all other Christians not to debate with Ahmad (as). Maulvi Muhammad Hussain of Batalvi was from the Ahle-Hadith sect of Islam, which was a very fundamentalist group. It is funny that when Ahmad (as) was entering adulthood Hussain had been one of his closest friends. But, when he claimed to be the Messiah he was the one that was most against Ahmad (as). Hussain participated in MANY conspiracies against Ahmad (as) and tried to get him imprisoned many times on false accusations. He failed every time. Lekh Ram was a Hindu. Who wrote many vulgar things about teh Holy Prophet (saw), and the Holy Qur'an. If you want to read about his life and the prophecies of his death then click here: Death of Lekh Ram A Sign for the people of India Quote: When Ghulam Ahmad did not come to his senses, Shaykh Abu’l-Wafa’ challenged him to come together and invoke the curse of Allaah, such that the one who was lying would die in the lifetime of the one who was telling the truth. Lies. This is what Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (as) said to other people. Or this is how he challenged other people. No one had the guts to challenge him in this way. Quote: Only a few days passed before Mirza Ghulam Ahmad al-Qadiani died, in 1908 CE, Yes he died then, but not because of whoever you said challenged him. There were people before as I have written who challenged him, and he did not die. Before he died it was continuously revealed to him by Allah that he was going to die. All the prophecies about his death are recorded and written in his book The Will. He was also told, and comforted that his cause would not go to waste but his community of followers would spread to the ends of the earth which it did. Click here to read The Will: Clickie Quote: leaving behind more than fifty books, pamphlets and articles, among the most important of which are: Izaalat al-Awhaam (Dispelling illusions), I’jaaz Ahmadi (Ahmadi miracles), Baraaheen Ahmadiyyah (Ahmadi proofs), Anwaar al-Islam (Lights of Islam), I’jaaz al-Maseeh (Miracles of the Messiah), al-Tableegh (Conveying (the message))and Tajalliyyaat Ilaahiyyah (Divine manifestations). All his books were important. And you do not have the accurate titles of any of them. Firstly let me talk about Braheen-i-Ahmadiyya. In english it is translated The proofs of the truth of the book of God, the Holy Qur'an, and the Prophethood of Muhammad. When this book was published Ahmad (as) had not claimed that he wwas the Promised Messiah. It was written to dispel all ill-notions by non-Muslims about Islam and to shut them up about using arguments against Islam. When it was first published every Muslim thought it was an excellent book that no logical person could refute. It was a perfect book that supported the teachings of the Holy Qu'ran and the Holy Prophet (saw). And it showed the truth of Islam in the most perfect light. There were many newspaper articles written about this book, and no Muslim was against its lessons. No one could refute a single argument in this book. Ahmad (as) had said when this book was published that he would give 10,000 dollars to whoever was able to refute even a single claim. No one could. But, when he claimed to be Messiah then this book was not spoken about as a good book anymore. The other books he wrote were (only providing english translation titles of these books): -Old Writings -Green Poster -Victory of Islam -Explanation of Objectives -Removal of suspicions -The Ludhiana Debate -The Divine Decision -The Heavenly Sign -The Mirror of the Excellencies of Islam -The Blessings of Prayer -The Convincing Proof of Islam -The Sacred Battle -The Light of Truth -The Secret of Khlafat -The True Word -The Philosophy of the Teachings of Islam -The Acquittal -The Days of Peace -Jesus in India -Elixir of Hearts -The Revealed Sermon -The Sea of Light -The Miracles of the Messiah -A Misunderstanding Removed -The Ark of Noah -The Narration of Two Martyrdom s -Islam and other religions of this country -The Will -The Nature of Revelation (Many of these books are available online) Quote: Noor al-Deen (Nuruddin): the first Khaleefah of the Qadianis. The British put the crown of Khilaafah on his head, so the disciples (of Ghulam Ahmad) followed him. Among his books is: Fasl al-Khitaab (Definitive statement). The British did not decide anything. The Khalifa is elected by the people of the Jama'at. It is democracy. No one is forced to accept a person who randomly claims that he wants to be Khalifa. Hazrat Maulana Hakim Nooruddin Sahib (Khalifatul Masih I) was a colossal personality - a talented author, eminent scholar, extraordinary virtuous and a theologian par excellence. Being very well versed in Medicine, he was Royal Physician to the Maharaja of Jammu and Kashmir for many years. He was born in the village of Bhera in Punjab in 1841. In pursuit of knowledge, he travelled far and wide enjoying the privilege of a four year stay in the holy cities of Mecca and Medina. Quote: Muhammad Ali and Khojah Kamaal al-Deen: the two leaders of the Lahore Qadianis. They are the ones who gave the final shape to the movement. The former produced a distorted translation into English of the Qur’aan. His other works include: Haqeeqat al-Ikhtilaaf (The reality of differences), al-Nubuwwah fi’l-Islam (Prophethood in Islam) and al-Deen al-Islami (The Islamic religion). As for Khojah Kamaal al-Deen, he wrote a book called al-Mathal al-A’laa fi’l-Anbiya’ (The highest example of the Prophets), and other books. This Lahore group of Ahmadis are those who think of Ghulam Ahmad as a Mujaddid (renewer or reviver of Islam) only, but both groups are viewed as a single movement because odd ideas that are not seen in the one will surely be found in the other. You think they gave the final shape to Ahmadiyyat? You are greatly mistaken. These people deviated from Ahmadiyyat and declared that they did not think that Khilafat was necessary, and that the Ansar of the community could manage the community perfectly without the Khalifa. They only believed in the Promised Messiah 9as) claim but not any of his Khalifa's. They spread propaganda throughout the community and tried to break it apart. Finally the Khalifa took action and said that the people who did not beleive in the Khulafa were not from among the Ahmadiyyah community. They then left and made their own community in Lahore....thus the name Lahori Ahmadhi was created for them. Everyone else who believed in the Khulafa were then titled the Qadiani Ahmadhi. The Qadiani and Lahori Ahmadhi's do not associate with one another, so the books you provided do not support your claim against Ahmadiyyat at all. Quote: Muhammad Ali: the leader of the Lahore Qadianis. He was one of those who gave the final shape to Qadianiyyah, a colonialist spy and the person in charge of the magazine which was the voice of the Qadianiyyah. He also produced a distorted translation into English of the Qur’aan. Among his works are Haqeeqat al-Ikhtilaaf (The reality of differences), and al-Nubuwwah fi’l-Islam (Prophethood in Islam), as stated above. As I have already stated the Lahori Ahmadhi's and the Qadiani Ahmadhi's are two different things. The Lahori Ahmadhi's were kicked out of the true Ahmadiyyah community. Quote: Muhammad Saadiq, the mufti of the Qadianiyyah. His works include: Khatim al-Nabiyyeen The seal of the Prophets). Actually the book seal of the Prophets was written by a number of people. "The Seal of Prophets - His Personality and Character" was written by Hadhrat Mirza Tahir Ahmad (rh) who was the fourth khalifa of the community, and "Muhammad: Seal of the Prophets" was written by Sir Zafrullah Khan who helped in the creation of Pakistan, which is an "Islamic" state. the person you stated did not write this book. Quote: Basheer Ahmad ibn Ghulam. His works include: Seerat al-Mahdi (the life of the Mahdi) and Kalimat al-Fasl (Decisive word). Hadhrat Mirza Bashir Ahmad: M.A. (razillah anho): He was the second son of Promised Messiah (AS), and younger brother of Hadhrat Khalifat al-Masih the Second. He was given the honorific title of 'Qamaral Anbiya' in one of the Hadhrat Ahmad's revelations. He was a skilled writer and an outstanding author. He penned several scholarly works: Seerat Khatam al-Nabiyyen (Life of Prophet Muhammad, s.a.s.), Seeart al-Mahdi (Life of Imam Mahdi), Silsila Ahmdiyya (The Ahmadiyya Movement), Tableghe Hidayat (Guide to Preaching), and Hamara Khuda (Our God). He had a special talent for handling organizational matters and solving complex problems. For this reason he was a lifetime advisor of Hadhrat Khalifat al-Masih II. He devoted his life to the service of the Jamaat. His affection and deep concern for every member of the Community was admirable. He passed away on September 2nd, 1963. Quote: Mahmood Ahmad ibn Ghulam, his second Khaleefah. Among his works are: Anwaar al-Khilaafah (Lights of the caliphate), Tuhfat al-Mulook and Haqeeqat al-Nubuwwah (The reality of prophethood). Yes. Quote: The appointment of the Qadiani Zafar-Allaah Khan as the first Foreign Minister of Pakistan had a major effect in supporting this deviant sect, as he gave them a large area in the province of the Punjab to be their world headquarters, which they named Rabwah (high ground) as in the aayah (interpretation of the meaning): “… And We gave them refuge on high ground (rabwah), a place of rest, security and flowing streams.” [al-Mu’minoon 23:50]. His name was Sir Zafrullah Khan. At least spell it right if you are going to write about him. He was the first foreign minister of Pakistan only because Qaidai Azam wanted him to be. At the time period in India, persecution of Muslims was rampant, therefore Sir Zafrullah Khan found the Qaidai Azam in Europe and convinced him to create the new state of Pakistan. You know what the word deviant can be used in a positive way to. He did not give them any area in Punjab. In India, in Qadian, Muslim persecution was rampant. Many people were killed. Even the non-Ahmadhi's took refuge in Qadian to hide from the Sikhs. Before, trucks were allowed to come to pick up refugees from from Qadian, but that was even stopped. So people had to walk on foot to cross the border and enter Pakistan. The people who walked in the blazing sun were murdered and their women were taken from them. Many Ahmadhi's moved to Pakistan and lived in various areas. The Ahmadhi's "bought" the land of Rabwah which had no greenery, no water, and was a desert area. But, they bought it any way from the government and settled there. It was very difficult to live there as there was no water or food resources. In Qadian 313 Derwaish stayed to keep Qadian an Ahmadhi town when the violence died down. So Rabwah was not given to them, they legally bought it. But it was taken away from them years later by a new government. Before in Qadian the second Khalifa could not live without constant danger to his life, so he had to migrate to Rabwah Pakistan. And then the fourth Khalifa could not live his life peacefully in Rabwah so he had to move to London. So the Ahmadhi's had three international headquarters in their history. First in Qadian, where because of violence against Muslims the Khalifa had to migrate. Then in Rabwah, where because of the persecution of Ahmadhi's the Khalifa had to migrate. And then finally to London, where the Khalifa lives peacefully. In Rabwah when they first went there there was no water and no greenery. To find water they had to dig constantly and then finally they found water. The greenery was created by the Ahmadhi's when they planted seeds and tree's in to the ground. The rest shall be answered in another post.....I am being kicked off the computer right now to do chores crying
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Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 7:04 pm
Yah I'm back.....and now I will answer the rest hopefully.........if I am not kicked off the computer again. LoGa Knight Their thought and beliefs Ghulam Ahmad began his activities as an Islamic daa’iyah (caller to Islam) so that he could gather followers around him, then he claimed to be a mujaddid inspired by Allaah. He never claimed to be a mujadid. That's what the newspapers said about him and what people said about him after he wrote the book Braheen-i-Ahmadiyya. This was before he claimed to be the Messiah. In this book the main points Ahmad dealt with were: First, the fundamental principles of the knowledge of religion. Secondly, three hundred proofs about Islam. The book then answered accusations made against Islam, examined the precepts of other religions and explained the wisdom of the Holy Qur'an. Quote: Then he took a further step and claimed to be the Awaited Mahdi and the Promised Messiah. He did not claim it until he was told to claim it. His followers at that time, already knew he was truthful and asked him that they be allowed to swear allegiance at his hands. But Ahmad's (as) reply was that he had not been given this instruction by God yet. When he was given the instruction by God, he announced that he was the awaited Reformer, the Messiah, and Mahdhi, that would unite all religions under the banner of Islam. This announcement was in accordance to the prophecies that told of he coming of the Messiah in the ahadith and the Holy Qur'an. For example, when he made his claim there was a lunar and solar eclipse in Qadian. And also before his announcement other religions had been winning over Islam. And as it had been written that there would be mosque's but the mosque's would be empty of followers....this was the case during that time period. It was also written that Gog and Magog would rule the earth........which was also the case, and that he power of the dajjal would be very great....that was also the case. And as I have stated in another forum. the easiest way to think about this topic is that Allah promised in the Holy Qur'an that he would deal with all liars and infidels by Himself. That these liars and infidels would not be happy inthis life or the hereafter, and would live a life of constant misery. They would die a painful death, because they lied, and no one would remember their name. This was obviously not the case with Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani (as). So logically only two things could be concluded: either Ahmad (as) was the promised Messiah and was telling the truth.........or the Allah was no longer a living God. (astaghfurllah) You can make the decision yourself. Quote: Then he claimed to be a Prophet and that his prophethood was higher than that of Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). He claimed to prophethood at the same time that he claimed to be the Messiah. But, he never ONCE stated that he was better than Hadhrat Muhammad (saw). He had been raised so that the beautiful religion the the Holy Prophet (saw) had brought to this wrld could be reinforced among the Muslims.....and also spread throughout the world. There was no one who loved the Holy Prophet (saw) more then Ahmad (as) did. He wanted every person in the world to speak the Holy Prophet (saw) praise. He could not bear to hear his master insulted. What he did claim is that God had revealed to him that he had a status that was higher than Hadhrat Isa (as)........as he was the one who was supposed to unite the whole world under the banner of the true Islam, whereas Hadhrat Isa (as) was only supposed to unite the Lost tribes of Israel. Quote: The Qadianis believe that Allaah fasts, prays, sleeps, wakes up, writes, makes mistakes and has intercourse – exalted be Allaah far above all that they say. Asthaghfurllah. We have the same Qur'an that you do. We could never beleive that! It would be tantamount to Shirk! Which is the biggest sin for a Muslim to commit. I am a "Qadiani Ahmadhi" and I am telling you this is not true. Please state your source, and please make it a relaible source.....from our works, and not your propaganda. Where have we written that we believe this? Quote: The Qadiani believes that his god is English because he speaks to him in English. No......we beleive the language of the heavens is Arabic. We believe like everyone else that Arabic is the mother of all languages. I don't know where you are getting such far fetched information from. Most of the "Qadiani's" don't even speak Arabic. Our Namaz is in Arabic......our Qur'an is still in Arabic. Quote: The Qadianis believe that Prophethood did not end with Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), but that it is ongoing, and that Allaah sends a messenger when there is a need, Yes this is written in the Holy Qur'an and the Ahadith. Are you going to refute the Holy Qur'an and Ahadith? I have support where is your support. "Allah had promised to those among you who believe and do good works that He will surely make them Successors in the earth, as He made Successors from among those who were before them; and that He will surely establish for them their religion which He has chosen for them; and that He will surely give them in exchange security and peace after their fear: They will worship Me, and they will not associate anything with Me. Then who so is ungrateful after that, they will be the rebellious."(Surah Al-Nur, Verse 56) Commentary: The present verse embodies a promise that Muslims will be vouchsafed both spiritual and temporal leadership. The promise is made to the whole Muslim nation but the institution of Khilafat will take a palpable form in the person of certain individuals who will be the Prophet's Successors and the representatives of the whole nation. They will be, as it were, Khilafat personified. The verse further says that the fulfillment of this promise will depend on the Muslims' observing the Prayer and giving the Zakat and on their obeying the Messenger of God in all religious and temporal matters concerning the nation. When they will have fulfilled these conditions, the boon of Khilafat will be bestowed upon them and they will be made the leaders of nations; their state of fear will give place to a condition of safety and security, Islam will reign supreme in the world, and above all the Oneness and Unity of God - the real purpose and object of Islam - will become firmly established. The promise of the establishment of Khilafat is clear and unmistakable. As the Holy Prophet is now humanity's sole guide for all time, his Khilafat must continue to exist in one form or another in the world till the end of time, all other Khilafahs having ceased to exist. This is among many others the Holy Prophet's distinct superiority over all other Prophets and Messengers of God. Our age has witnessed his greatest spiritual Khalifa in the person of Ahmad, the Promised Messiah. The Qur'an has mentioned three kinds of Khalifas: 1. Khalifas, who are Prophets such as Adam and David. About Adam, God says in the Qur'an: "I am about to place a vicegerent in the earth" (2:31); and about David He says: "O David, We have made thee a vicegerent in the earth" (38:27). 2. Prophets who are the Khalifas of another and a greater Prophet such as the Isrealite Prophets who all were the Khalifas of Moses. About them the Qur'an says: "We have sent down the Torah wherein was guidance and light. By it did the Prophets who were obedient to Us judge for the Jews:" (5:45). 3. Non-Prophet Khalifas of a Prophet, with or without temporal powers, such as godly people learned in the Law. Their mission is to protect and preserve the law from being tampered with (5:45). Briefly, the verse under comment covers all these categories of Khalifas, viz., the Holy Prophet's rightly-guided Khalifas, the Promised Messiah, his Successors and the spiritual Reformers or Mujaddids. Their mission, as the above verse says, is to protect the Law and to bring back "the erring flock into the Master's fold." The special marks and characteristics of these Khalifas are: * They are appointed Khalifas through God's own decree in the sense that the hearts of believers become inclined towards them and they voluntarily accept them as their Khalifas; * the religion which their mission is to serve becomes firmly established through their prayers and missionary efforts; * they enjoy equanimity and peace of mind amidst hardships, privations or persecution which nothing can disturb; and * they worship God alone, i.e. in the discharge of their great responsibilities they fear no one and they carry on their duties undaunted and without being discouraged or dismayed by the difficulties that stand in their way. The verse may also be regarded as embodying a prophecy which was made at a time when Islam was very weak and idols were being worshipped throughout Arabia and the Muslims being small in number feared for their very lives, and yet in the course of only a generation the prophecy was literally fulfilled. Idolatry disappeared from Arabia and Islam became firmly established not only in Arabia but also reigned supreme in the whole world and the followers of the Holy Prophet, erstwhile regarded as the dregs and scum of humanity, became the leaders and teachers of nations. The words, "Whosoever is ungrateful after that, they will be the rebellious," signify that Khilafat is a great Divine blessing. Without it there can be no solidarity, cohesion and unity among Muslims and therefore they can make no real progress without it. If Muslims do not show proper appreciation of Khilafat by giving unstinted support and obedience to their Khalifas they will forfeit this great Divine boon and in addition will draw the displeasure of God upon themselves. (The Holy Quran with English Translation and Commentary, Vol. 4, pp. 1869-1870.) And in the hadith it is stated: "Prophethood shall remain among you as long as Allah shall will. He will bring about its end and follow it with Khilafat on the precepts of prophethood for as long as He shall will and then bring about its end. A tyrannical monarchy will then follow and will remain as long as Allah shall will and then come to an end. There will follow thereafter monarchial despotism to last as long as Allah shall will and come to an end upon His decree. There will then emerge Khilafat on precept of Prophethood." The Holy Prophet said no more (Masnad Ahmad) Quote: and that Ghulam Ahmad is the best of all the Prophets. No I already gave you my views on this. He believes that the best prophet in the whole of history was the Prophet Muhammad (saw). Please find where he has stated that he thinks he is the best? Quote: They believe that Jibreel used to come down to Ghulam Ahmad and that he used to bring revelation to him, and that his inspirations are like the Qur’aan. No he used to get direct revelations from God, as did the Holy Prophet (saw) and prophets before him. All of his revelations have come true, so they are true. Some of the revelations he made was the death of his opponents (how they were going to occur), revelations about WWI, revelations about the plague that hit India, revelations about the Promised Son and what he would be like and what he would do, revelations about the state of Afghanistan in the future, revelations about his death, and many many many more. If you wish for me to provide some of the revelation that he recieved and how they came true.......I will be more then happy to do so. No inspiration can be like the words of the Holy Qur'an. The Holy Qur'an was created to guide mankind in the future, his revelations were not there to guide mankind but just to show the truth of his claim. Quote: They say that there is no Qur’aan other than what the “Promised Messiah” (Ghulam Ahmad) brought, and no hadeeth except what is in accordance with his teachings, and no Prophet except under the leadership of Ghulam Ahmad. This is totally wrong. Where has he or where have we written this in or literature? No where. Quote: They believe that their book was revealed. Its name is al-Kitaab al-Mubeen and it is different from the Holy Qur’aan. First point all books are different from the Holy Qur'an. The Holy Qur'an is the perfect book....no other book is perfect. And many of his books contained prophecies that were revealed to him. For example, Jesus in India (his book) was totally revealed to him. And also the Revealed Sermon (or Khutba Ilhamiya) was revealed to him as well.....and this was on the spot revealed to him and he delivered the sermon on a Friday. Quote: They believe that they are followers of a new and independent religion and an independent Sharee’ah, and that the friends of Ghulam are like the Sahaabah. We do not follow a new and independent religion. We call ourselves Muslim for a reason we beleive and practice the 5 pillars of Islam.....and try to follow the Islamic laws in our daily lives. Yes they are like the Sahabah.......? And your point is? Quote: They believe that Qadian is like Madeenah and Makkah, if not better than them, and that its land is sacred. It is their Qiblah and the place they make hajj to. A piece of land should not be worshiped. Yes, Medina and Mecca is where the Holy Prophet (saw) has walked upon the earth so they are Holy places. And they will remain Holy places till the end of time. Qadian and Rabwah are not Holy places they are just where our community has large gatherings. And we face the Kab'ah when we are worshiping. Quote: They called for the abolition of jihaad and blind obedience to the British government because, as they claimed, the British were “those in authority” as stated in the Qur’aan. There was no abolition to jihad mentioned. Jihad is very much alive. Every person in his/her inner soul is fighting an inner Jihad against Satan. That Jihad is alive. Also, the Jihad of debating with pen is also still very much alive. Also, the Jihad of gaining converts is still very much alive. The only Jihad that does not exist is the Jihad of Holy War that only existed during the time of the Holy Prophet (saw). There can be no Holy Wars anymore because the only reason Holy Wars were turned to was because the Muslims were turned out of their homes and persecuted. There should be no blind obedience to any authority. Wherever the authority practices peace that is the rules of the authority you should obey. And I already gave you the Quranic quote which supports the reason "because they were in authority". Quote: In their view every Muslim is a Kaafir unless he becomes a Qadiani, and everyone who married a non-Qadiani is also a kaafir. No, there are many good Muslims that are not Ahmadhi. But, people who are pure, use logic, and are innocent, plus follow the teachings of Islam through the Qur'an and the Ahadith will certainly find the truth in Ahmadiyyat. That is not true. We recommend that Ahmadhi's should marry other Ahmadhi's as this will allow their children to get the full message of Islam. But, as it says in the Holy Qur'an, the Ahmadhi's are free to marry into any one of the Abrahamic faiths. Quote: They allow alcohol, opium, drugs and intoxicants. No that is what non-Ahmadhi's allow. Plus illegal transfer of those drugs. It is clearly shown in documentaries what some so-called Islamic countries have resorted to as a way of life. If one of our members was to do drugs they would be kicked out of the Jama'at...probably because with drugs and alcohol come other vices. Quote: Intellectual and ideological roots The westernizing movement of Sir Sayyid Ahmad Khan paved the way for the emergence of the Qadianiyyah, because it had already spread deviant ideas. Sir Sayyid Ahmad Khan was not even Ahmadhi or Qadiani or Lahori. You should check your facts. He was Sunni, and also helped in the creation of Pakistan. And again deviant isn't really a bad word. Quote: The British made the most of this opportunity so they started the Qadiani movement and chose a man from a family that had a history of being agents of the colonialists. Ahmad(as) did not have a history of having colonialist family. As I have already stated. And since apparently the British, and not Ahmad (as), started the "Qadiani Ahmadhi" group then why were the British not Ahmadhi? It sucks that they were the ones who "apparently" created it and we still have to work on them to convert them to Ahmadiyyat. They should "readily" accept since you know they were the "ones" who started the whole thing. Quote: In 1953 CE, there was a popular revolution in Pakistan which demanded the removal of Zafar-Allaah Khan from the position of Foreign Minister and that the Qadiani sect should be regarded as a non-Muslim minority. In this uprising around ten thousand Muslims were martyred, and they succeeded in having the Qadiani minister removed from office. There was no revolution. Do you know what a revolution is? It is when people take up actions to overthrow a government that is currently in power. No one overthrew him. During the time of the Qaidai Azam in Pakistan everything was peaceful, after that things went downhill. Sir Zafrullah Khan later became a chair in the United Nations. Want to read his time line: click hereThe Ahmadhi sect started to regarded as a non-Muslim sect after the demise of Qaidai Azam. Sir Zafrullah Khan was not in politics anymore at the time. And it wasn't just Pakistan that declared us non-Muslims......it was every single Muslim sect unanimously. Though if yuo look at our works and not just our beleifs, we are the"most MUSLIM" community in the world. Wow ten thousand Muslims wee martyred. That's so much! Did you know if 10, 000 Muslims were martyred that would count as a genocide. Then the UN under the guidance of the US would definitely take action.....since Pakistan has oil too. The Ahmadhi's ahve never once killed anyone. We are the ones who are being killed. Quote: In Rabee’ al-Awwal 1394 AH (April 1974), a major conference was held by the Muslim World League in Makkah, which was attended by representatives of Muslim organizations from around the world. This conference announced that this sect is Kaafir and is beyond the pale of Islam, and told Muslims to resist its dangers and not to cooperate with the Qadianis or bury their dead in Muslim graveyards. Yes I already know that. But, that was wrong of the majority of Muslims. They do not ahve the right to decide who is kafir and who is not. Only Allah has this right! They are self-deluded and have started thinking themselves as Gods. They have no fear for the wrath of God. Quote: The Majlis al-Ummah in Pakistan (the central parliament) debated with the Qadiani leader Mirza Naasir Ahmad, and he was refuted by Shaykh Mufti Mahmood (may Allaah have mercy on him). The debate went on for nearly thirty hours but Naasir Ahmad was unable to give answers and the Kufr of this group was exposed, so the Majlis issued a statement that the Qadianis should be regarded as a non-Muslim minority. This is all lies. The situation was actually reversed. The Majlis was not able to give responses to the questions that Hadhrat Mirza Nasir Ahmad posed! Allah had already revealed to him that even though Hadhrat Mirza Nasir Ahmad would give more then adequate answers the Muslims would make the decision to call Ahamdhi's non-Muslim. If you want I can give you the exact details of this meeting. It is recorded in history accurately. And I can give you sources to what happened as well. Just ask. Quote: Among the factors that make Mirza Ghulam Ahmad an obvious Kaafir are the following: His claim to be a Prophet Yes.......he received revelations. Which have been proven to be true through out history. If he had not claimed to be the Promised Messiah and a prophet, then today he would be considered as one of the most intellectual beings in the history of Islam. Quote: His abolition of the duty of jihaad, to serve the interests of the colonialists. His saying that people should no longer go on Hajj to Makkah, and his substitution of Qadian as the place of pilgrimage. None of these are true. Provide your proof through support from his writings and references. We believe in the concept of Jihad. We believe that Kab'ah is the place of pilgrimage. Quote: His anthropomorphism or likening Allaah to human beings. Not true. Again need proof. Quote: His belief in the transmigration of souls and incarnation. Not true. We beleive in the Hereafter.....heaven and hell. Quote: His attributing a son to Allaah and his claim to be the son of God. This is the oddest remark yet. In the Holy Qur'an and in the bible it is clearly stated several times that many people have been the son of God. It is only logical. Son of God does not mean that divinity is attached to the son....as the Christians do with Jesus (as). I am also a daughter of God, since he was the one who created me from dust, or from a clot of blood (however you want to think of it). You are also a son of God since he created you. Quote: His denying that Prophethood ended with Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and his regarding the door of Prophethood to be open to “any Tom, d**k or Harry”. No prophethood has not ended........and I have created a whole forum on this plan. It's not my fault you could not refute my arguments, and chose to run away. Why then are you posting this statement now? If you wish to continue this debate go back to the other forum. Quote: The Qadianis have strong ties with Israel. Israel has opened centres and schools for them, and helped them to publish a magazine which is their mouthpiece, to print books and publications for distribution worldwide. We do not have strong ties with Israel, meaning with the Zionists that created Israel. We have ties only with Israel in the fact that we are trying to preach the message of the true Islam to the Jews to Islam. We raise our money ourselves, to make these schools, hospitals, and mosque's and to print all the books that have been written in our support. It is not our fault that our community sacrifices much more then your community does. We do not ask for financial donations from outsiders, such as the government, we raise the money ourselves and choose what to do with the money ourselves. Not like your denomination, that holds commercials on TV asking outsiders to donate for your cause. Or like the Chrisitans who do the exact same thing. Our money is ours. It is used to help those in need, and where our Khalifa chooses to use it. Quote: The fact that they are influenced by Judaism, Christianity and al-Baatiniyyah is clear from their beliefs and practices, even though they claim to be Muslims. Okay what is clear then? I want to know too! Quote: Their spread and positions of influence Most of the Qadianis nowadays live in India and Pakistan, with a few in Israel and the Arab world. They are trying, with the help of the colonialists, to obtain sensitive positions in all the places where they live. First point there are no colonialists in this day and age. The Ahmadhi's or Qadiani's live throughout the world. Our population throughout the world is more then 200 million, and we live and preach in more then 192 countries of the world. We have missionary schools in several countries, and when are missionaries complete their 5 years of training they are usually sent to remote area's of the world, where Islam is at a decline, to preach to those people. Quote: The Qadianis are very active in Africa and in some western countries. In Africa they have more than 5,000 teachers and dai’yahs working full-time to call people to Qadianiyyah. Their wide-spread activity proves that they have the support of the colonialists. Again there are no colonialists. If there are please mention who exactly they are. Our teachers are our own, our hospitals employ our own and are paid for by our own. Our community is very hard working, that is why we are gaining many converts. Still it is every Ahmadhi's wish that we were even more hard working. Quote: The British government is also supporting this movement and making it easy for their followers to get positions in world governments, corporate administration and consulates. Some of them are also high-ranking officers in the secret services. Our Khalifa does not want our people to go into politics. He instructs us to make more teachers, and doctors, and lawyers, and graphic designers, etc. Not government positions. So this point is inaccurate. Quote: In calling people to their beliefs, the Qadianis use all kinds of methods, especially educational means, because they are highly-educated and there are many scientists, engineers and doctors in their ranks. In Britain there is a satellite TV channel called Islamic TV which is run by the Qadianis. We are very educated because Islam teaches us that one should get educated. Our Satellite station is called MTA or Muslim Television Ahmadiyya and it runs throughout the world not just in Britain. This station is run by volunteers that are Ahmadhi's and are paid by Ahmadhi's.
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Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 7:05 pm
XeroRyn you should post more....how bout the ahmadiyat post about them 2 please Ahmadhi's are Qadiani's. Why? Because we originated in Qadian. Our true name is Ahmadhi's but our opponents insist on calling us Qadiani's.
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Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 7:08 pm
Two things to say to you:
1) Your replies are similar to those of the Kafir in Mecca, at the time of the Holy Prophet (saw).
2)No one can be shown light if they keep their eyes closed.
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Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 3:16 pm
I wish I could debate but my mood isn't really up to it. Plus, I know this would be pointless. Here, I took it from here: http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/4060/ahmadiyyahAlthough, my father and I are confused how this spreaded out to Canada. Well, I can only say one thing cuz I read only one answer. His followers claimed him to be the Messiah, but he did not deny that fact. How come? Well, going to go rest.
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Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 4:41 pm
Pheonixia Two things to say to you: 1) Your replies are similar to those of the Kafir in Mecca, at the time of the Holy Prophet (saw). 2)No one can be shown light if they keep their eyes closed.[ who is close or who is blinded??
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Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 9:01 pm
LoGa Knight I wish I could debate but my mood isn't really up to it. Plus, I know this would be pointless. Here, I took it from here: http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/4060/ahmadiyyahAlthough, my father and I are confused how this spreaded out to Canada. Well, I can only say one thing cuz I read only one answer. His followers claimed him to be the Messiah, but he did not deny that fact. How come? Well, going to go rest. You wish you could debate, but you know that whatever topic you will bring up against my Jama'at I will be able to refute it. Therefore you don't have the "mood" to debate against me. Pointless? Not really, because of this you will be able to gain "true" knowledge about my Jama'at. I know you took it from a non-Ahmadhi site, but when I say point out the sources where your source got the information from, will you be able to do that? I don't think so. You don't even dare to open up our site! How what spread out to Canada? His followers were not the first to claim he was the Messiah. He received a divine revelation from Allah and then claimed he was the Awaited Reformer. He then did tabligh and gained converts (but even before he claimed to be the Messiah he had some followers).
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Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 9:03 pm
XeroRyn Pheonixia Two things to say to you: 1) Your replies are similar to those of the Kafir in Mecca, at the time of the Holy Prophet (saw). 2)No one can be shown light if they keep their eyes closed.[ who is close or who is blinded?? I am speaking about the people I am debating against. When I do and have provided support from Ahadith and the Qur'an on matters that I am debating on, and still the people I am debating against do not take heed, then what else should I say?
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Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 12:24 am
Pheonixia LoGa Knight I wish I could debate but my mood isn't really up to it. Plus, I know this would be pointless. Here, I took it from here: http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/4060/ahmadiyyahAlthough, my father and I are confused how this spreaded out to Canada. Well, I can only say one thing cuz I read only one answer. His followers claimed him to be the Messiah, but he did not deny that fact. How come? Well, going to go rest. You wish you could debate, but you know that whatever topic you will bring up against my Jama'at I will be able to refute it. Therefore you don't have the "mood" to debate against me. Pointless? Not really, because of this you will be able to gain "true" knowledge about my Jama'at. I know you took it from a non-Ahmadhi site, but when I say point out the sources where your source got the information from, will you be able to do that? I don't think so. You don't even dare to open up our site! How what spread out to Canada? His followers were not the first to claim he was the Messiah. He received a divine revelation from Allah and then claimed he was the Awaited Reformer. He then did tabligh and gained converts (but even before he claimed to be the Messiah he had some followers). You are too full of pride. I don't have the mood to cebate because I know that your beliefs are clashing. The thing is, I have opened your site. I don't know what are YOU saying though. True knowledge is truth. Not lies. Gain nowledge of your Jama'at so I can show them how wrong they are? I said it is pointless because I already know that I am in the true light. If I am too scared of the Ahmadhia, won't I be joining them already? The Ahmadhiah even played the Seal of Prophethood. So, should I follow these people who go against their own prophet? You might not know it but the Ahmadhi's are actually in a new religion, only they don't realize it. In the grave, the two angels would ask us, "Who is your imam?" And I would say Mohamed, but you would say him. I need no more proof from you to know that you are lost from the light. Your beliefs are also rediculos. For example, when only one sector of Islam, (you say it is Ahmadiyyah while I say it is Sunnah jama'ah) would enter Heaven, you said that people from other religions would enter Heaven also if they do good. Hmm...sounds to me like a clashing belief or stupid one. If Muslims themselves have a hard time entering Heaven, how is that those non-Muslims entr heaven so easily? Then why don't you be a non-Muslims and do good? Wouldn't it be easier than to have to struggle in Islam which sector is the rightful one? Stupid belief. The thing is, I can debate, but I know that you would hit me back with stupid reasons that I can knock down all too easily and then, pointless. So don't be too sure of yourself. You said that people do not take heed, why don't you when the truths are took from the Quran and shown in front of you and you refuse it. So, what's the point. Everything you say to me, I can ask you the same thing. Why don't we heed? Why don't you? I know why I don't heed to your preach, it is because they are too wrong.
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Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 1:07 pm
LoGa Knight Pheonixia LoGa Knight I wish I could debate but my mood isn't really up to it. Plus, I know this would be pointless. Here, I took it from here: http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/4060/ahmadiyyahAlthough, my father and I are confused how this spreaded out to Canada. Well, I can only say one thing cuz I read only one answer. His followers claimed him to be the Messiah, but he did not deny that fact. How come? Well, going to go rest. You wish you could debate, but you know that whatever topic you will bring up against my Jama'at I will be able to refute it. Therefore you don't have the "mood" to debate against me. Pointless? Not really, because of this you will be able to gain "true" knowledge about my Jama'at. I know you took it from a non-Ahmadhi site, but when I say point out the sources where your source got the information from, will you be able to do that? I don't think so. You don't even dare to open up our site! How what spread out to Canada? His followers were not the first to claim he was the Messiah. He received a divine revelation from Allah and then claimed he was the Awaited Reformer. He then did tabligh and gained converts (but even before he claimed to be the Messiah he had some followers). You are too full of pride. I agree, the last post was too full of pride.....and I am sorry about that. I was sort of angry since my brother was trying to get me kicked off the computer redface Quote: I don't have the mood to cebate because I know that your beliefs are clashing. Our beliefs are clashing....against whose? Against yours yes, but not our own. Quote: The thing is, I have opened your site. I don't know what are YOU saying though. ? I don't understand what you are saying? Are you talking about the site........? Quote: True knowledge is truth. Not lies. Agreed. But, my Jama'at is not lying here the religious leaders of the non-Ahmadhi community are lying now. This fact was also prophesied by Hadhrat Muhammad (saw). Do you want the hadith? Quote: Gain nowledge of your Jama'at so I can show them how wrong they are? What will you see that is wrong? If you open your eyes and your heart you will only see truth.....you will see that Allah supports our Jama'at as is proven by our continuous growth....and does not support yours as is proven by the fact that the Sunni community morals are going very down..... Also, by the fact that Allah listens to our prayers. Especially the prayers of our Khalifa. This has been evident many times in history where we have won over the non-Ahmadhi community in every sphere of life that pleases Allah. Quote: I said it is pointless because I already know that I am in the true light. No it is not pointless, Allah wants His people (as is evident in the Holy Qur'an and Ahadith) that people should be taught the truth. For example, it is written that the religion that is brought by Hadhrat Muhammad (saw) is a religion for the WHOLE of mankind (and not just a select group). Therefore, if you have truth on your side then you must realize that since "apparently" I am in the wrong, then you have the responsibility of teaching me the "truth", and not just saying that it is pointless. I don't think Allah would think your effort is pointless. No, on the contrary He would award you with even more blessings then you have now. But, if you think it is pointless still and do not do "anything about me" (eg. debate with me), then Allah may take blessings away from you. Quote: If I am too scared of the Ahmadhia, won't I be joining them already? Who told you to be scared of us? We are a loving community that spreads peace. Our very motto is "Love for All, Hatred for None". We not only preach this motto but we also practice it in our daily lives. The one who you should be afraid of (and love at the same time) is Allah. Allah forgives the weak but His wrath is also very severe. Maybe because you are ignoring the truth Allah wrath may befall you? Inshallah it will not though. But, if you do not want Allah's wrath to fall on you then you should pray constantly for yourself. That is why Allah has prescribed 5 daily Namaz' so that his creation may ask forgiveness of Him. Also, Surah Fatiha is prescribed for us too. Do you know what the translation of Surah Fatiha is? It is: "I seek refuge with Allah from the Accursed Satan. In the Name of Allah the Gracious the Merciful" "All Praise belongs to Allah, Lord of All the worlds. The Gracious the Merciful, Master of the Day of Judgment. Thee alone do I worship, and Thee alone do I implore for help. GUIDE US ON THE RIGHT PATH. THE PATH UPON WHOM THOU HAS BESTOWED THY BLESSINGS. Not of those who have incurred Thy displeasure, nor of those who have gone astray." Allah, has prescribed this Surah at least 5 times a day. So ponder over this Surah........because I definitely do. And pray to Allah that He may guide us to the right path, and keep us there. Ameen. Quote: The Ahmadhiah even played the Seal of Prophethood. So, should I follow these people who go against their own prophet? We did not play with the Seal of the Prophets.....we provided accurate commentary on these verses. We do not go against the Holy Prophet (saw), but beleive him to be the greatest Prophet that was ever born, the like of which will be never be born again into his world, unfortunately. I have already started a whole forum on this topic.......and you have not been able to debate against me.......so to repeatedly continue bringing this up is ignorant. Quote: You might not know it but the Ahmadhi's are actually in a new religion, only they don't realize it. No we are not. It is sad how you always contradict yourself. First, you said to me that "yes I believe you are Muslim", and now you are saying "I don't believe you are Muslim". Well, let me enlighten you with some news. Can you bring up a single Jama'at or person in the world who is Muslim, and who has done as much for his/her faith as much as we have done for Islam. I doubt you can. Islam is being corrupted from all sides, and even the ignorant can see that.it is ONLY our community that is standing firm under pressure and is trying their best to convert the world to the true Islam. If you think you know someone...please tell me who he/she is and then tell me what that person has done for his faith. And another thing. The only thing people have against us, so that they can call us "non-Muslim" is that we beleive that the Promised Messiah (as) was a Prophet. That is the only thing. If that was not an issue (if we did not beleive this), then every single Muslim individual would agree that we are the best Muslim community in the world so far. Now, a little bit more enlightenment. How come we are the only community that is kicked out of the Islamic Ummah? Do you know what the biggest sin a Muslim can commit? It is shirk (or associating partners with Allah). Today, there are several Muslim communities that even beleive that there is God beside Allah. These Muslims grant divinity to mere humans. Or they pray to graves of saints, or they pray to pieces of cloth. These ideas are also, rampant in the Sunni community, yet none of these communities who commit the worst possible sin a Muslim could commit are kicked out! How is that justice? It is not. Quote: In the grave, the two angels would ask us, "Who is your imam?" And I would say Mohamed, but you would say him. No you would day that you had no fear of Allah, and did not look for truth even when its light was so sharp it was blinding you. You would say that my Imam is not Muhammad (saw), but my parents and the people of my Jama'at. They spread lies and I believed them. I never thought to look for the truth on my own! That is what you will say. And who told you that is what will happen to you when you die? That is a wrong belief! When we die everything that we did good or bad will be brought from inside our hearts for everyone to see. The ones who found Allah in this lifetime will have glowing bodies, and the ones who chased after worldly things there whole life and neglected Allah will have a dark bodies. This stage is called baghat, or the middle stage. With these second temporary bodies we will go to either heaven or hell, and await or judgment. When the Day of judgment (the last day) comes then everyone will will be questioned about his/her conduct. And God is the only one who knows the truth as to what thoughts were locked up in peoples hearts in this life. Quote: I need no more proof from you to know that you are lost from the light. Believe what you want. (puts up hand as if to surrender) On the Day of Judgment I will be questioned about my own actions and beliefs, not yours. But, I pray for you still. Quote: Your beliefs are also rediculos. For example, when only one sector of Islam, (you say it is Ahmadiyyah while I say it is Sunnah jama'ah) would enter Heaven, I never said what specific Jama'at would enter heaven. That is what you said. All I said was the Jama'at that is in minority will enter heaven...as is said in the hadith. But, the Holy Prophet (saw) taught that the best predictor of going to heaven in this life is that: If you feel that you have achieved heaven in this life (eg. true love of Allah and His creation) then you will also have heaven in the next world. Quote: you said that people from other religions would enter Heaven also if they do good. Individuals from other religion will enter heaven. On that much I am sure. But, I have asked a superior person in my Jama'at to validate my statement through proof from the Holy Qur'an and Ahadith on this issue. Then I will definitely post it in a separate forum. Meanwhile, I invite you to provide support from the Ahadith and Qur'an to validate your beleifs. Quote: Hmm...sounds to me like a clashing belief or stupid one. If Muslims themselves have a hard time entering Heaven, how is that those non-Muslims entr heaven so easily? As I have repeated MANY times before. Since it is difficult for Muslims to enter heaven, it is even more difficult for non-Muslims to enter heaven. Because whereas our teacher is the Holy Qur'an (it is our teacher because through it Allah teaches us His word) which guides us in every single aspect of life, they don't have this kind of a superior teacher. But, that does not stop them from doing good. It does not stop them from believing in God, giving charity, practicing good morals, loving mankind, etc. But, it is not those specific good peoples faults that no one presented them with the pure and perfect teachings of Islam. It is not there fault, but it is our fault. We have a beautiful religion in our clasp but if we do not spread it far then they are not the ones to be blamed for not knowing the truth of Islam, then it is us who will be blamed in the hereafter. When Allah will ask them....why did you not become Muslim? There answer will be that they did not even know what being a Muslim was! Then Allah, because He is Merciful and Forgiving, will surely accept them into Paradise. When He asks us: Why did you not spread my pure teachings far and wide? Then before we even answer he will know, that we were too busy enjoying the stupid comforts of life, when millions of people in the world were suffering because they did not know Islam. But, if a non-Muslim is presented with the teachings of the pure Islam and does not convert then He will not enter Heaven easily. But, this is the same for Muslims. If they do not recognize the true denomination of Islam, after it has been presented to them, then they will not get into heaven easily either. And also, those Muslims who convert, but do not practice Islam, they will not get into heaven easily either. In all these cases Hell is a very great possibility for them. That is why prayer is constantly needed.......not only for ourselves, but also the human race. Quote: Then why don't you be a non-Muslims and do good? Wouldn't it be easier than to have to struggle in Islam which sector is the rightful one? Stupid belief. If I did something stupid like that then I would surely enter Hell. Because for a non-Muslim it is much harder then it is for a Muslim to enter heaven, because they have no guidance (eg. in the form of the Holy Qur'an, or Ahadith, etc.). If I knew Islam was the true religion and converted then I would be in a much worse position then I am in now. True believers always figure out the truth, therefore they would not have to struggle with finding the true denomination of Islam. Quote: The thing is, I can debate, but I know that you would hit me back with stupid reasons that I can knock down all too easily and then, pointless. So please do so. I invite you over and over again to debate but you run off, using excuses (like it is "pointless") If your denomination is the correct one then I have an open-mind and I invite you to convert me. And what do you call my stupid reasoning? Is my stupid reasoning........that I actually quote from the Holy Qur'an and Ahadith when I am debating? If that's what you call stupid reasoning then you should seek forgiveness from Allah. Quote: So don't be too sure of yourself. You said that people do not take heed, why don't you when the truths are took from the Quran and shown in front of you and you refuse it. So, what's the point. Everything you say to me, I can ask you the same thing. Why don't we heed? Why don't you? I know why I don't heed to your preach, it is because they are too wrong. I am very sure of myself brother. Why? Because Allah is with me and guides me when I am debating against you. How? Because He has blessed me with a brain so that I can use reason and logic. Also, because he has given me the opportunity to do tabligh. Inshallah I will continue on this path until I die and breathe my last breath. What is more better then sacrificing your whole life for the cause of Allah? Nothing is. What truths have you taken from the Holy Qur'an and Ahadith to debate against me? None. I am the one who is quoting from the Holy Qur'an and Ahadith. So when you say the truths are right in front of me.....I say to you that you have not presented me with a single quote from religious literature to show me the "truth". Whereas I have.
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Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 5:52 pm
Pheonixia LoGa Knight Pheonixia LoGa Knight I wish I could debate but my mood isn't really up to it. Plus, I know this would be pointless. Here, I took it from here: http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/4060/ahmadiyyahAlthough, my father and I are confused how this spreaded out to Canada. Well, I can only say one thing cuz I read only one answer. His followers claimed him to be the Messiah, but he did not deny that fact. How come? Well, going to go rest. You wish you could debate, but you know that whatever topic you will bring up against my Jama'at I will be able to refute it. Therefore you don't have the "mood" to debate against me. Pointless? Not really, because of this you will be able to gain "true" knowledge about my Jama'at. I know you took it from a non-Ahmadhi site, but when I say point out the sources where your source got the information from, will you be able to do that? I don't think so. You don't even dare to open up our site! How what spread out to Canada? His followers were not the first to claim he was the Messiah. He received a divine revelation from Allah and then claimed he was the Awaited Reformer. He then did tabligh and gained converts (but even before he claimed to be the Messiah he had some followers). You are too full of pride. I agree, the last post was too full of pride.....and I am sorry about that. I was sort of angry since my brother was trying to get me kicked off the computer redface Quote: I don't have the mood to cebate because I know that your beliefs are clashing. Our beliefs are clashing....against whose? Against yours yes, but not our own. No, against your own.Quote: The thing is, I have opened your site. I don't know what are YOU saying though. ? I don't understand what you are saying? Are you talking about the site........? No, I was talking about you. Quote: True knowledge is truth. Not lies. Agreed. But, my Jama'at is not lying here the religious leaders of the non-Ahmadhi community are lying now. This fact was also prophesied by Hadhrat Muhammad (saw). Do you want the hadith? If the hadith is from Mohamed, yes. If from him, I do not believe it.Quote: Gain nowledge of your Jama'at so I can show them how wrong they are? What will you see that is wrong? If you open your eyes and your heart you will only see truth.....you will see that Allah supports our Jama'at as is proven by our continuous growth....and does not support yours as is proven by the fact that the Sunni community morals are going very down..... Also, by the fact that Allah listens to our prayers. Especially the prayers of our Khalifa. This has been evident many times in history where we have won over the non-Ahmadhi community in every sphere of life that pleases Allah. That is why I say, grow. Grow as much as you want. The world is going to end when the true Messiah appear and that won't be long, so I have no reason to fear it's growth. Sunni's are corrupted. Some are not. I am the not.Quote: I said it is pointless because I already know that I am in the true light. No it is not pointless, Allah wants His people (as is evident in the Holy Qur'an and Ahadith) that people should be taught the truth. For example, it is written that the religion that is brought by Hadhrat Muhammad (saw) is a religion for the WHOLE of mankind (and not just a select group). Therefore, if you have truth on your side then you must realize that since "apparently" I am in the wrong, then you have the responsibility of teaching me the "truth", and not just saying that it is pointless. I don't think Allah would think your effort is pointless. No, on the contrary He would award you with even more blessings then you have now. But, if you think it is pointless still and do not do "anything about me" (eg. debate with me), then Allah may take blessings away from you. If the truth is to be ignored, it would mean nothing.Quote: If I am too scared of the Ahmadhia, won't I be joining them already? Who told you to be scared of us? We are a loving community that spreads peace. Our very motto is "Love for All, Hatred for None". We not only preach this motto but we also practice it in our daily lives. The one who you should be afraid of (and love at the same time) is Allah. Allah forgives the weak but His wrath is also very severe. Maybe because you are ignoring the truth Allah wrath may befall you? Inshallah it will not though. But, if you do not want Allah's wrath to fall on you then you should pray constantly for yourself. That is why Allah has prescribed 5 daily Namaz' so that his creation may ask forgiveness of Him. Also, Surah Fatiha is prescribed for us too. Do you know what the translation of Surah Fatiha is? It is: "I seek refuge with Allah from the Accursed Satan. In the Name of Allah the Gracious the Merciful" "All Praise belongs to Allah, Lord of All the worlds. The Gracious the Merciful, Master of the Day of Judgment. Thee alone do I worship, and Thee alone do I implore for help. GUIDE US ON THE RIGHT PATH. THE PATH UPON WHOM THOU HAS BESTOWED THY BLESSINGS. Not of those who have incurred Thy displeasure, nor of those who have gone astray." Allah, has prescribed this Surah at least 5 times a day. So ponder over this Surah........because I definitely do. And pray to Allah that He may guide us to the right path, and keep us there. Ameen. I know what it means. I am not stupid to ignore something like this which I read everyday. And it was your post, saying that I am scared of debating with you. If I am scared, I would already be joining you.Quote: The Ahmadhiah even played the Seal of Prophethood. So, should I follow these people who go against their own prophet? We did not play with the Seal of the Prophets.....we provided accurate commentary on these verses. We do not go against the Holy Prophet (saw), but beleive him to be the greatest Prophet that was ever born, the like of which will be never be born again into his world, unfortunately. I have already started a whole forum on this topic.......and you have not been able to debate against me.......so to repeatedly continue bringing this up is ignorant. To flee from it is worst.Quote: You might not know it but the Ahmadhi's are actually in a new religion, only they don't realize it. No we are not. It is sad how you always contradict yourself. First, you said to me that "yes I believe you are Muslim", and now you are saying "I don't believe you are Muslim". Well, let me enlighten you with some news. Can you bring up a single Jama'at or person in the world who is Muslim, and who has done as much for his/her faith as much as we have done for Islam. I doubt you can. Islam is being corrupted from all sides, and even the ignorant can see that.it is ONLY our community that is standing firm under pressure and is trying their best to convert the world to the true Islam. If you think you know someone...please tell me who he/she is and then tell me what that person has done for his faith. And another thing. The only thing people have against us, so that they can call us "non-Muslim" is that we beleive that the Promised Messiah (as) was a Prophet. That is the only thing. If that was not an issue (if we did not beleive this), then every single Muslim individual would agree that we are the best Muslim community in the world so far. Now, a little bit more enlightenment. How come we are the only community that is kicked out of the Islamic Ummah? Do you know what the biggest sin a Muslim can commit? It is shirk (or associating partners with Allah). Today, there are several Muslim communities that even beleive that there is God beside Allah. These Muslims grant divinity to mere humans. Or they pray to graves of saints, or they pray to pieces of cloth. These ideas are also, rampant in the Sunni community, yet none of these communities who commit the worst possible sin a Muslim could commit are kicked out! How is that justice? It is not. To tell you the truth, the only two which are not kicked out is Sunni and Shiah. Of course the shi'ahs are already truly lost. I know that. I believe you are a Muslim, only in your own religion. I know what is shirk and do we, commit that sin? Perhaps a few but mostly no. That is not all the reasons why your beliefs are bin kicked out. The firm pressure for you to convert is actually to make them lost. Quote: In the grave, the two angels would ask us, "Who is your imam?" And I would say Mohamed, but you would say him. No you would day that you had no fear of Allah, and did not look for truth even when its light was so sharp it was blinding you. You would say that my Imam is not Muhammad (saw), but my parents and the people of my Jama'at. They spread lies and I believed them. I never thought to look for the truth on my own! That is what you will say. And who told you that is what will happen to you when you die? That is a wrong belief! When we die everything that we did good or bad will be brought from inside our hearts for everyone to see. The ones who found Allah in this lifetime will have glowing bodies, and the ones who chased after worldly things there whole life and neglected Allah will have a dark bodies. This stage is called baghat, or the middle stage. With these second temporary bodies we will go to either heaven or hell, and await or judgment. When the Day of judgment (the last day) comes then everyone will will be questioned about his/her conduct. And God is the only one who knows the truth as to what thoughts were locked up in peoples hearts in this life. No, that is what you would say. I am Muhammad's follower. You are Irza's. And therefore, I would say Muhammad and you will say Irza. And Muhammad will say that you are not his followers then it would be the end of happiness. That is the question which will be asked in the grave. I said in the grave, not during apocalypse.Quote: I need no more proof from you to know that you are lost from the light. Believe what you want. (puts up hand as if to surrender) On the Day of Judgment I will be questioned about my own actions and beliefs, not yours. But, I pray for you still. Surrendering already. Sure. Well, hopefully, I will end up in the place I want to be and so would you.Quote: Your beliefs are also rediculos. For example, when only one sector of Islam, (you say it is Ahmadiyyah while I say it is Sunnah jama'ah) would enter Heaven, I never said what specific Jama'at would enter heaven. That is what you said. All I said was the Jama'at that is in minority will enter heaven...as is said in the hadith. But, the Holy Prophet (saw) taught that the best predictor of going to heaven in this life is that: If you feel that you have achieved heaven in this life (eg. true love of Allah and His creation) then you will also have heaven in the next world. I did not say any specidic jama'at either. In minority, don't you think the Sunni is just going to be a small part and Ahmadhi's the largest? Quote: you said that people from other religions would enter Heaven also if they do good. Individuals from other religion will enter heaven. On that much I am sure. But, I have asked a superior person in my Jama'at to validate my statement through proof from the Holy Qur'an and Ahadith on this issue. Then I will definitely post it in a separate forum. Meanwhile, I invite you to provide support from the Ahadith and Qur'an to validate your beleifs. I already gave you that verse. Many times. Ali Imran. If you want to read that verse again, you should go read it in the Quran. Because if I give you the verse, you are going to ignore it anyway. Quote: Hmm...sounds to me like a clashing belief or stupid one. If Muslims themselves have a hard time entering Heaven, how is that those non-Muslims entr heaven so easily? As I have repeated MANY times before. Since it is difficult for Muslims to enter heaven, it is even more difficult for non-Muslims to enter heaven. Because whereas our teacher is the Holy Qur'an (it is our teacher because through it Allah teaches us His word) which guides us in every single aspect of life, they don't have this kind of a superior teacher. But, that does not stop them from doing good. It does not stop them from believing in God, giving charity, practicing good morals, loving mankind, etc. But, it is not those specific good peoples faults that no one presented them with the pure and perfect teachings of Islam. It is not there fault, but it is our fault. We have a beautiful religion in our clasp but if we do not spread it far then they are not the ones to be blamed for not knowing the truth of Islam, then it is us who will be blamed in the hereafter. When Allah will ask them....why did you not become Muslim? There answer will be that they did not even know what being a Muslim was! Then Allah, because He is Merciful and Forgiving, will surely accept them into Paradise. When He asks us: Why did you not spread my pure teachings far and wide? Then before we even answer he will know, that we were too busy enjoying the stupid comforts of life, when millions of people in the world were suffering because they did not know Islam. But, if a non-Muslim is presented with the teachings of the pure Islam and does not convert then He will not enter Heaven easily. But, this is the same for Muslims. If they do not recognize the true denomination of Islam, after it has been presented to them, then they will not get into heaven easily either. And also, those Muslims who convert, but do not practice Islam, they will not get into heaven easily either. In all these cases Hell is a very great possibility for them. That is why prayer is constantly needed.......not only for ourselves, but also the human race. I told you already. The people who does good, believe in God but doesn't know Islam can enter paradise. You are asking me to repeat the same thing all over and voer again. Read through my posts then, you come and tell me what you want to say. I told you already, it's not their fault they do not know islam. You should know that I was pointing towards those who refuse to convert into a Muslim. They will never enter Paradise.Quote: Then why don't you be a non-Muslims and do good? Wouldn't it be easier than to have to struggle in Islam which sector is the rightful one? Stupid belief. If I did something stupid like that then I would surely enter Hell. Because for a non-Muslim it is much harder then it is for a Muslim to enter heaven, because they have no guidance (eg. in the form of the Holy Qur'an, or Ahadith, etc.). If I knew Islam was the true religion and converted then I would be in a much worse position then I am in now. True believers always figure out the truth, therefore they would not have to struggle with finding the true denomination of Islam. Then find the trutrhs, not protect something you're unsure of.Quote: The thing is, I can debate, but I know that you would hit me back with stupid reasons that I can knock down all too easily and then, pointless. So please do so. I invite you over and over again to debate but you run off, using excuses (like it is "pointless") If your denomination is the correct one then I have an open-mind and I invite you to convert me. And what do you call my stupid reasoning? Is my stupid reasoning........that I actually quote from the Holy Qur'an and Ahadith when I am debating? If that's what you call stupid reasoning then you should seek forgiveness from Allah. No. Your reasoning is a misintepretion of the Quran and hadiths.Quote: So don't be too sure of yourself. You said that people do not take heed, why don't you when the truths are took from the Quran and shown in front of you and you refuse it. So, what's the point. Everything you say to me, I can ask you the same thing. Why don't we heed? Why don't you? I know why I don't heed to your preach, it is because they are too wrong. I am very sure of myself brother. Why? Because Allah is with me and guides me when I am debating against you. How? Because He has blessed me with a brain so that I can use reason and logic. Also, because he has given me the opportunity to do tabligh. Inshallah I will continue on this path until I die and breathe my last breath. What is more better then sacrificing your whole life for the cause of Allah? Nothing is. Agreed. So try your best. I won't give up a well because this is all for Allah.What truths have you taken from the Holy Qur'an and Ahadith to debate against me? None. I am the one who is quoting from the Holy Qur'an and Ahadith. So when you say the truths are right in front of me.....I say to you that you have not presented me with a single quote from religious literature to show me the "truth". Whereas I have.
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Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 1:23 pm
Quote: Quote: Quote: I don't have the mood to cebate because I know that your beliefs are clashing. Our beliefs are clashing....against whose? Against yours yes, but not our own. Which beliefs of ours are clashing? still confused. Quote: Quote: Quote: True knowledge is truth. Not lies. Agreed. But, my Jama'at is not lying here the religious leaders of the non-Ahmadhi community are lying now. This fact was also prophesied by Hadhrat Muhammad (saw). Do you want the hadith? He did not write any Hadith. Only Muhammad (saw) did. And whatever hadith I give you, you can check it's validity by going into your own books on Hadith. Quote: Quote: Quote: Gain nowledge of your Jama'at so I can show them how wrong they are? What will you see that is wrong? If you open your eyes and your heart you will only see truth.....you will see that Allah supports our Jama'at as is proven by our continuous growth....and does not support yours as is proven by the fact that the Sunni community morals are going very down..... Also, by the fact that Allah listens to our prayers. Especially the prayers of our Khalifa. This has been evident many times in history where we have won over the non-Ahmadhi community in every sphere of life that pleases Allah. Okay. We will continue to grow because Allah supports our Jama'at, and knows we are not lying. If we were lying then the Living Allah's wrath would have fallen on us long ago. One day you will die, and then your children will die, and then your children's children will die, etc. bt never is another Messiah going to come. Quote: Quote: Quote: I said it is pointless because I already know that I am in the true light. No it is not pointless, Allah wants His people (as is evident in the Holy Qur'an and Ahadith) that people should be taught the truth. For example, it is written that the religion that is brought by Hadhrat Muhammad (saw) is a religion for the WHOLE of mankind (and not just a select group). Therefore, if you have truth on your side then you must realize that since "apparently" I am in the wrong, then you have the responsibility of teaching me the "truth", and not just saying that it is pointless. I don't think Allah would think your effort is pointless. No, on the contrary He would award you with even more blessings then you have now. But, if you think it is pointless still and do not do "anything about me" (eg. debate with me), then Allah may take blessings away from you. There is a point, because even if no one heeds the truth, Allah will bless you. If I was converted that would be just a worldly win, but the true win is when because of your blessings you are accepted into heaven. That is the point of spreading the truth. Quote: Quote: Quote: If I am too scared of the Ahmadhia, won't I be joining them already? Who told you to be scared of us? We are a loving community that spreads peace. Our very motto is "Love for All, Hatred for None". We not only preach this motto but we also practice it in our daily lives. The one who you should be afraid of (and love at the same time) is Allah. Allah forgives the weak but His wrath is also very severe. Maybe because you are ignoring the truth Allah wrath may befall you? Inshallah it will not though. But, if you do not want Allah's wrath to fall on you then you should pray constantly for yourself. That is why Allah has prescribed 5 daily Namaz' so that his creation may ask forgiveness of Him. Also, Surah Fatiha is prescribed for us too. Do you know what the translation of Surah Fatiha is? It is: "I seek refuge with Allah from the Accursed Satan. In the Name of Allah the Gracious the Merciful" "All Praise belongs to Allah, Lord of All the worlds. The Gracious the Merciful, Master of the Day of Judgment. Thee alone do I worship, and Thee alone do I implore for help. GUIDE US ON THE RIGHT PATH. THE PATH UPON WHOM THOU HAS BESTOWED THY BLESSINGS. Not of those who have incurred Thy displeasure, nor of those who have gone astray." Allah, has prescribed this Surah at least 5 times a day. So ponder over this Surah........because I definitely do. And pray to Allah that He may guide us to the right path, and keep us there. Ameen. I never said you are stupid. I just have some friends who read this Surah everyday but do not know what it means......I didn't know if you were in that position or not. Please debate against me then. The truth is even if we are not getting anywhere, I am enjoying this. Why? Because while I debate I gain more knowledge on Islam that stays in my brain because I debated that knowledge. I also want/need the blessings. One way I gained knowledge was someone posted on the religion/morality forum of Gaia saying that homosexuality is allowed in Islam.....I had no clue about this topic according to the Holy Qur'an.....but once I did some research I have become very knowledgeable. So if for nothing else, then please debate with me just for knowledge's sake. Quote: Quote: Quote: You might not know it but the Ahmadhi's are actually in a new religion, only they don't realize it. No we are not. It is sad how you always contradict yourself. First, you said to me that "yes I believe you are Muslim", and now you are saying "I don't believe you are Muslim". Well, let me enlighten you with some news. Can you bring up a single Jama'at or person in the world who is Muslim, and who has done as much for his/her faith as much as we have done for Islam. I doubt you can. Islam is being corrupted from all sides, and even the ignorant can see that.it is ONLY our community that is standing firm under pressure and is trying their best to convert the world to the true Islam. If you think you know someone...please tell me who he/she is and then tell me what that person has done for his faith. And another thing. The only thing people have against us, so that they can call us "non-Muslim" is that we beleive that the Promised Messiah (as) was a Prophet. That is the only thing. If that was not an issue (if we did not beleive this), then every single Muslim individual would agree that we are the best Muslim community in the world so far. Now, a little bit more enlightenment. How come we are the only community that is kicked out of the Islamic Ummah? Do you know what the biggest sin a Muslim can commit? It is shirk (or associating partners with Allah). Today, there are several Muslim communities that even beleive that there is God beside Allah. These Muslims grant divinity to mere humans. Or they pray to graves of saints, or they pray to pieces of cloth. These ideas are also, rampant in the Sunni community, yet none of these communities who commit the worst possible sin a Muslim could commit are kicked out! How is that justice? It is not. To tell you the truth, the only two which are not kicked out is Sunni and Shiah. Of course the shi'ahs are already truly lost. I know that. I believe you are a Muslim, only in your own religion. I know what is shirk and do we, commit that sin? Perhaps a few but mostly no. That is not all the reasons why your beliefs are bin kicked out. The firm pressure for you to convert is actually to make them lost. That is not a justification. The rest of the Muslim Ummah has not been kicked out. And if some of them have been then the Sunni and Shi'ite's do not spread as much propaganda about them as they do us. And also, these kicked out Muslims do not have to undergo persecution under the hands of the Shi'ite and Sunni scholars either. Actually a lot of Sunni's and Shia's don't follow Islamic Shairah. For example, the Shi'ites beat themselves....which is totally against Islamic Shriah, and also did you know they have special Imam's too that they hold in reverence. So it is not just us who beleive that their is a new Imam that has been apart of this world. Also, MANY of the Sunni's shirk. For example, they pray at the graves of famous Muslim saints or scholars. Also, before birth the Muslim women pray to a piece of cloth. Quote: Quote: Quote: I need no more proof from you to know that you are lost from the light. Believe what you want. (puts up hand as if to surrender) On the Day of Judgment I will be questioned about my own actions and beliefs, not yours. But, I pray for you still. lol do you really think I'll ever surrender? lol nope. I'll be like 84 and still debating, Inshallah. I hope that as well. Ameen. Where do you want to be in your life by the way? I mean what do you want to do with your life? I want to become a graphic designer/teacher. Quote: Quote: Quote: you said that people from other religions would enter Heaven also if they do good. Individuals from other religion will enter heaven. On that much I am sure. But, I have asked a superior person in my Jama'at to validate my statement through proof from the Holy Qur'an and Ahadith on this issue. Then I will definitely post it in a separate forum. Meanwhile, I invite you to provide support from the Ahadith and Qur'an to validate your beleifs. No, I already supported my argument against that Verse. But, please tell me the verse again if you want, I will look at it again. Quote: Quote: Quote: Hmm...sounds to me like a clashing belief or stupid one. If Muslims themselves have a hard time entering Heaven, how is that those non-Muslims entr heaven so easily? As I have repeated MANY times before. Since it is difficult for Muslims to enter heaven, it is even more difficult for non-Muslims to enter heaven. Because whereas our teacher is the Holy Qur'an (it is our teacher because through it Allah teaches us His word) which guides us in every single aspect of life, they don't have this kind of a superior teacher. But, that does not stop them from doing good. It does not stop them from believing in God, giving charity, practicing good morals, loving mankind, etc. But, it is not those specific good peoples faults that no one presented them with the pure and perfect teachings of Islam. It is not there fault, but it is our fault. We have a beautiful religion in our clasp but if we do not spread it far then they are not the ones to be blamed for not knowing the truth of Islam, then it is us who will be blamed in the hereafter. When Allah will ask them....why did you not become Muslim? There answer will be that they did not even know what being a Muslim was! Then Allah, because He is Merciful and Forgiving, will surely accept them into Paradise. When He asks us: Why did you not spread my pure teachings far and wide? Then before we even answer he will know, that we were too busy enjoying the stupid comforts of life, when millions of people in the world were suffering because they did not know Islam. But, if a non-Muslim is presented with the teachings of the pure Islam and does not convert then He will not enter Heaven easily. But, this is the same for Muslims. If they do not recognize the true denomination of Islam, after it has been presented to them, then they will not get into heaven easily either. And also, those Muslims who convert, but do not practice Islam, they will not get into heaven easily either. In all these cases Hell is a very great possibility for them. That is why prayer is constantly needed.......not only for ourselves, but also the human race. See you agree with me. What you said is exactly what I was trying to explain this whole time. Then you should have said it that way. I also, believe that those people who reject Islam after finding out about its truth will go to hell. But we are not the judge Allah is......maybe Allah knows something good that they did in their lifetimes that we do not....and thus will forgive their sins.......but I doubt it. Quote: Quote: Quote: Then why don't you be a non-Muslims and do good? Wouldn't it be easier than to have to struggle in Islam which sector is the rightful one? Stupid belief. If I did something stupid like that then I would surely enter Hell. Because for a non-Muslim it is much harder then it is for a Muslim to enter heaven, because they have no guidance (eg. in the form of the Holy Qur'an, or Ahadith, etc.). If I knew Islam was the true religion and converted then I would be in a much worse position then I am in now. True believers always figure out the truth, therefore they would not have to struggle with finding the true denomination of Islam. Who said I'm unsure? I'm very sure. I have even witnessed prayer fulfillment and miracles because of my sect. Quote: Quote: Quote: The thing is, I can debate, but I know that you would hit me back with stupid reasons that I can knock down all too easily and then, pointless. So please do so. I invite you over and over again to debate but you run off, using excuses (like it is "pointless") If your denomination is the correct one then I have an open-mind and I invite you to convert me. And what do you call my stupid reasoning? Is my stupid reasoning........that I actually quote from the Holy Qur'an and Ahadith when I am debating? If that's what you call stupid reasoning then you should seek forgiveness from Allah. We shall see who is misinterpreting them as we continue to debate. Quote: Quote: Quote: So don't be too sure of yourself. You said that people do not take heed, why don't you when the truths are took from the Quran and shown in front of you and you refuse it. So, what's the point. Everything you say to me, I can ask you the same thing. Why don't we heed? Why don't you? I know why I don't heed to your preach, it is because they are too wrong. I am very sure of myself brother. Why? Because Allah is with me and guides me when I am debating against you. How? Because He has blessed me with a brain so that I can use reason and logic. Also, because he has given me the opportunity to do tabligh. Inshallah I will continue on this path until I die and breathe my last breath. What is more better then sacrificing your whole life for the cause of Allah? Nothing is. That's something nice to hear. Everything we do should be only for the sake of Allah and not because of some selfish petty reasons. Quote: Quote: What truths have you taken from the Holy Qur'an and Ahadith to debate against me? None. I am the one who is quoting from the Holy Qur'an and Ahadith. So when you say the truths are right in front of me.....I say to you that you have not presented me with a single quote from religious literature to show me the "truth". Whereas I have. You gave me one verse and no hadith. Please present me with the verses and ahadith and we will see. I will definitely not ignore them.
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Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 10:35 am
assalamualaikum...
i want to say that
if u r muslim juz say muslim
be a muslim, call urself a muslim
cuz that what we call people who believe in islam
not an ahmadhi
plz......
seems like that was a type of other religion than Islam
if u want to bring true islam juz keep the muslim name with u
why we need a new name to prove we r true muslim???
that was soooooooooooo weird
islam is islam
not ahmadhi or qadiani
same as we r human
human is human
not alien wink
PRUOD TO BE A MUSLIM 3nodding
islam is my way of life
wassalam
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