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 Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 3:21 am
Something a little different. This is a DISCUSSION thread, not a debate. This means you can post anything you want as long as it is related to the topic at hand. There is no need to choose sides or make arguments. Just post what you think/feel about the subject. You can post as many times as you like, whether or not anyone else has posted. The first discussion: Someone pointed out this article from the NY Times. I had to read it and found it very interesting. The girl described is probably the average internet user. Quote: Nicole Bengiveno/The New York Times A NEW GENERATION Nadia Konyk, 15, has a small book collection but prefers reading online. Instead, like so many other teenagers, Nadia, 15, is addicted to the Internet. She regularly spends at least six hours a day in front of the computer here in this suburb southwest of Cleveland. A slender, chatty blonde who wears black-framed plastic glasses, Nadia checks her e-mail and peruses myyearbook.com, a social networking site, reading messages or posting updates on her mood. She searches for music videos on YouTube and logs onto Gaia Online, a role-playing site where members fashion alternate identities as cutesy cartoon characters. But she spends most of her time on quizilla.com or fanfiction.net, reading and commenting on stories written by other users and based on books, television shows or movies. Her mother, Deborah Konyk, would prefer that Nadia, who gets A’s and B’s at school, read books for a change. But at this point, Ms. Konyk said, “I’m just pleased that she reads something anymore.” The whole article can be found here: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/27/books/27reading.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin
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Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 3:29 am
A few specifics about the article: 1. Stopping and startingQuote: Clearly, reading in print and on the Internet are different. On paper, text has a predetermined beginning, middle and end, where readers focus for a sustained period on one author’s vision. On the Internet, readers skate through cyberspace at will and, in effect, compose their own beginnings, middles and ends. I don't understand this part. I don't know many people who take the time to sit down and read a novel from beginning to end each time they want to read something. Most people read part of the book, set it aside, do other things, then return to the book, in essence composing "their own beginnings, middles and ends". 2. no learning potential from printouts?Quote: “Learning is not to be found on a printout,” David McCullough, the Pulitzer Prize-winning biographer, said in a commencement address at Boston College in May. “It’s not on call at the touch of the finger. Learning is acquired mainly from books, and most readily from great books.” If that is the case, then why are schools so darned fond of those textbooks? Why aren't they using "great books" to teach things like grammar and algebra? I think this guy needs to stop and think about what he is saying. I also take great offense to the fact that he is claiming that good reading can't be "found on a printout," and I know of several other authors who would also be offended. There are authors out there who have made their careers from writing "eBooks" that people can download to read on their computers or to print them out and read them that way! I believe it is the content and not format that makes reading material worthwhile. 3. not reading because someone is "online"?The article states that Nadia likes to read stories on Fanfiction.net and Quizilla, and even has her own series that she is writing on those same sites. This would seem to indicate to me that she IS reading for enjoyment... She just isn't using physical books to do it. 4. New and different reading skillsQuote: Elizabeth Birr Moje, a professor at the University of Michigan who led the study, said novel reading was similar to what schools demand already. But on the Internet, she said, students are developing new reading skills that are neither taught nor evaluated in school. At least this person is acknowledging that there actually ARE skills being learned from reading on the Internet. Perhaps this is something that needs to be addressed by the Department of Education and evaluated as a means of changing curricula to meet the changes occurring so rapidly in the world? Instead of saying that a different form of reading is not really reading, perhaps the new form should be analyzed and - perhaps - incorporated into the school systems. 5. Time invested vs. knowledge gainedQuote: “It takes a long time to read a 400-page book,” said Mr. Spiro of Michigan State. “In a tenth of the time,” he said, the Internet allows a reader to “cover a lot more of the topic from different points of view.” This is an interesting point. the fact that someone read a book doesn't mean that this person has a complete view of the subject matter. The Internet allows people to find more information (and often opposes viewpoints) on almost any subject. 6. Human interactionQuote: Though he also likes to read books (earlier this year he finished, and loved, “The Fountainhead” by Ayn Rand), Zachary craves interaction with fellow readers on the Internet. “The Web is more about a conversation,” he said. “Books are more one-way.” It is similar to people who join book groups and spend one afternoon discussing a particular book. except, in this case, you can find out what people from all over the world have to say about a particular book, and usually in less time than it would take to attend a book club meeting. 7. Redefining "reading" Quote: Some literacy experts say that reading itself should be redefined. Interpreting videos or pictures, they say, may be as important a skill as analyzing a novel or a poem. I agree. it goes back to what I was saying earlier in section four of this post. Though I am not sure that the analysis of pictures and videos would fall under the same category as "reading," it is an interesting concept. 8. A great argument FOR Internet reading?Quote: Experts on reading difficulties suggest that for struggling readers, the Web may be a better way to glean information. “When you read online there are always graphics,” said Sally Shaywitz, the author of “Overcoming Dyslexia” and a Yale professor. “I think it’s just more comfortable and — I hate to say easier — but it more meets the needs of somebody who might not be a fluent reader.” This is something that I find to be extremely interesting. I had never considered it from that angle, but I can see what she is saying. Those who have difficulty with reading (for whatever reason), can definitely benefit from having information presented to them in different formats. 9. And the tables turn...Quote: To date, there have been few large-scale appraisals of Web skills. The Educational Testing Service, which administers the SAT, has developed a digital literacy test known as iSkills that requires students to solve informational problems by searching for answers on the Web. About 80 colleges and a handful of high schools have administered the test so far. But according to Stephen Denis, product manager at ETS, of the more than 20,000 students who have taken the iSkills test since 2006, only 39 percent of four-year college freshmen achieved a score that represented “core functional levels” in Internet literacy. It may be inappropriate, but I just found this to be extremely hilarious. It is interesting that one group claims the Internet is harming the learning abilities of people, while this test shows that "regular book learning" is causing people to fail other types of tests. Very interesting. 10. I couldn't have said it better myself!Quote: Even those who are most concerned about the preservation of books acknowledge that children need a range of reading experiences. “Some of it is the informal reading they get in e-mails or on Web sites,” said Gay Ivey, a professor at James Madison University who focuses on adolescent literacy. “I think they need it all.”
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Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 2:48 pm
I will just comment on one part for now.
There are many different types of reading. All types of reading are good. Each type of reading has its different purpose and place. Mr. Spiro commented on 400 page books. If this is in relation to a 15 year old girl, I do not know of many 15 year old girls who read 400 page books for pleasure or for information/research.
The current generation tends to prefer taking its information in short pieces rather than long ones. Gathering information from the Internet would make sense in this circumstance as long as the sources are accurate. I disagree with Ms. Moje in that school systems are teaching students Internet tools. They teach students how to evaluate if an Internet site is a reliable source or not.
Follow me #3.
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Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:24 pm
Peek-a-boo, Vispera! whee
I dislike the way that this article implies that there only two literature sources in the world: novels and the Internet. Some of the stories and sources on the Internet are much more elaborate and thought-provoking than popular sources of reading that people do every day, i.e. the newspaper and magazines. I've never liked the newspaper because its articles are often extremely short and hardly say anything, while artciles on the Internet can be found in condensed form, or elaborated to show the full point of view, and with links to other articles and websites to find out more information about the subject of the articles. Newspapers, magazines, and even novels could never include that much information on hand. A lot of adults pick up a newspaper every day and call it reading, but they're subjected to the same sort of fractured article structure as the Internet, with the same graphic distractions and ads thrown in their faces. So are newspapers and magazines not reading?
However, that isn't to say that the Internet is the best source for improving grammar skills, because most of the content hasn't been revised or edited the way novels have been (and even novels have mistakes!), so if you're reading to improve your vocabulary, grammar skills, or sentence structures, accredited novels or even well-maintenanced, published Internet sources (as opposed to blogs and user-made stories) are the way to go.
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Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 8:34 pm
This article is completely ignoring the fact that there are different genres of books. Is it talking about non-fiction or fiction? If it is talking about fiction, then what about the difference from Historical Fiction and Fantasy? In my mind, each of these genres give different learning experiences and so does the internet. The internet sounds much more like a genre of books then a "different type of reading." It has its own rewards and its own flaws just like different genres of literatures.
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Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:15 am
Just wanted to move this above the closed threads.
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 10:57 pm
Quote: 5. Time invested vs. knowledge gained Quote: “It takes a long time to read a 400-page book,” said Mr. Spiro of Michigan State. “In a tenth of the time,” he said, the Internet allows a reader to “cover a lot more of the topic from different points of view.” I think reading a book is much better than skimming something off the net. Think about it, if you read a whole book on a subject, you're less likely to forget it. If you read a couple cliff notes about the Blood Books ((good series by Tanya Huff)) you would probebly forget about it the next day. However if you invested time in reading the whole of the series it would be less likely for the information to go out of your head tomorrow.
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Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 7:29 am
Drifting Druid This article is completely ignoring the fact that there are different genres of books. Is it talking about non-fiction or fiction? If it is talking about fiction, then what about the difference from Historical Fiction and Fantasy? In my mind, each of these genres give different learning experiences and so does the internet. The internet sounds much more like a genre of books then a "different type of reading." It has its own rewards and its own flaws just like different genres of literatures. I totally agree. There are so many differences between types of books, and this article makes it sound like an given book is the same as any other book in terms of reading. I think it is good that people have many sources available to them. Now, we just need to educate people on the use and veracity of things found online.
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