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Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:50 pm
Companions of the Holy Prophet Agreed on the death of JesusIt is said that for 1300 years nobody but we could spot the truth about the death of Jesus. All the doctors and teachers of Islam remained ignorant of it. The suggestion is that the consensus of early Muslims does not favour the view which we teach on the subject. But those, who indulge in this sarcasm, forget that the first exponents of Islam are the Companions of the Holy Prophet. The Companions first expounded the beliefs and practices of Islam to others. Then these others became the teachers of Islam, spreading to parts of the world. Now, as far as the Companions are concerned, they are at one in teaching what we think today about Jesus. And could they have taught anything else? Could they have taught a belief derogatory to the Holy Prophet? Not only are the Companions at one with us; but the first formal affirmation on which the Companions of the Holy Prophet collectively resolved themselves was the truth of the death of Jesus. The first Ijma of the Companions set its seal on his death. For, in the recorded Traditions we find that when the Holy Prophet died, the Companions became stupefied with grief. They could not move. Nor utter a word. Some were so deeply affected that they died a few days later, unable to bear the pangs of separation. Omar, of all persons, was so afflicted by grief that he made up his mind not to believe the Prophet had died. He unsheathed his sword and declared that whoever said the Prophet was dead would lose his head. He began to say the Holy Prophet had disappeared temporarily from their midst, even as Moses had disappeared on a Call from God. Moses returned to his people after forty days, so would the Holy Prophet. On return, the Holy Prophet would hold to account all those who had said unworthy things about him and had behaved hypocritically towards him. He would even put them to death or order their crucifixion. Omar was solemn and determined. None of the Companions dared to resist and deny what he said. Some were even persuaded by Omar's declaration. They began to think, the Prophet had not died. Because of this, their dejection changed to delight. The signs of it were on their faces. Those, who had their heads bowed with grief, who could also see far into the future, sent out one of them to fetch Abu Bakr. Abu Bakr was not in Medina when the Holy Prophet died. The Holy Prophet had permitted him to go, because his condition seemed to have improved. This Companion had hardly left the town when he saw Abu Bakr coming. On seeing Abu Bakr, the Companion could not contain himself. Tears rolled down. No word was necessary. Abu Bakr understood what had happened. He asked the Companion, "Has the Prophet died?" In reply, the Companion not only confirmed the sad news but also told Abu Bakr what Omar had been saying that `whoever should say the Prophet had died would lose his head!' Abu Bakr heard this and at once made for the place where the Holy Prophet's dead body lay. He lifted the mantle from over him and knew at once that he had died. The pain of separation from his beloved friend and leader made his eyes wet. He bent low and kissed the Prophet's forehead and said: "By God, you will not suffer more than one death. The loss mankind have suffered by your death is greater than the loss they have suffered by the death of any other prophet. You need no praises, and mourning cannot reduce the pangs of separation. If we could but avert your end, we would have done so, with our lives." Abu Bakr said this, and covered the Prophet's face; then went to the spot where Omar was speaking to the Companions. Omar, of course, was telling them that the Prophet had not died; but had only disappeared temporarily. Abu Bakr asked Omar to stop for a time and let him speak to the assembly. Omar did not stop but went on. Abu Bakr turned to some of the Companions and started telling them, the Holy Prophet had really died. Other Companions turned to Abu Bakr and began to listen to him. Omar also was compelled to listen. Abu Bakr recited from the Holy Quran: "The Holy Prophet was but a prophet. There had been prophets before him and they had all died. If he also should die or be put to death, would they turn back upon him?" (Al-Imran: 145) "Thou (O Muhammad) are surely going to die and they surely are going to die." (Al-Zumar: 31) "O ye men, whoever amongst you worshipped Muhammad, let him know that Muhammad is dead, and whoever amongst you worshipped Allah, let him know that Allah is Living, there is no death for Him." (Bukhari, Volume 2, Chapter Manaqibe Abu Bakr) When Abu Bakr recited the verses of the Holy Quran and pointed to their meaning, the Companions realised what had happened. The Prophet had died. They began to cry. Omar is reported to have said that when Abu Bakr recited the verses out of the Holy Quran, and when their meaning suddenly dawned upon him, it seemed as though the verses had been revealed on that day, at that moment. His legs could no longer support him. He staggered and fell down in a paroxysm of grief. This account of what passed between the Companions at the Holy Prophet's death proves three important things: Firstly, it proves that the first formal and collective expression of opinion upon which the Companions resolved after the death of the Holy Prophet was that all prophets before the Holy Prophet had died. There was no exception. If the Companions present on this solemn occasion thought that some earlier prophets had not died, they would have stood up and pointed to the exceptions. They could have said that at least Jesus had been alive in Heaven for 600 years. It was wrong to say that all the earlier prophets had died. If some could remain alive, why not the Holy Prophet? Secondly, it proves that the belief of the Companions that the earlier prophets had died was not a matter of opinion with the Companions. It was a truth recorded in the Holy Quran and taught clearly by the Holy Book. When Abu Bakr recited the verses, the Companions received them without demur. If the truth of the death of the earlier prophets was not contained in these verses, they could have said that, although the earlier prophets had really died, the verses recited by Abu Bakr were not relevant. The fact, therefore, that Abu Bakr recited the verse, "And there had been (other) prophets before him," to prove the death of earlier prophets, and the fact that the Companions, who heard this verse and heard Abu Bakr's argument based upon the verse, not only remained silent but began to rejoice over it and went about the town reciting it, proved beyond doubt that the Companions agreed entirely with Abu Bakr's interpretation of the verse. Thirdly, it proves that whether or not the Companions believed in the death of other prophets, they had no idea at all that Jesus was alive in Heaven. All accounts of this important incident and the important speeches made on the occasion show that even Omar, in the height of excitement, threatening to kill those who should say that Prophet had died, could cite the analogy only of Moses who disappeared for forty days from amongst his people. Even Omar did not cite the analogy of Jesus. If the Companions had any idea whatever that Jesus was alive in heaven, could not Omar, or the Companions who thought like him, have cited the analogy of Jesus? The fact that they cited only the analogy of Moses proves that they had not the slightest idea that Jesus had not died, or that he had even had an experience similar to that of Moses. Source: http://www.alislam.org/library/articles/death1.htm
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Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:59 am
Phoenexia, there's a large chance that you are wrong, and so am i.This story you told me proves nothing. Same as how the Ahmadiah denied the fact that Rasulullah (peace be upon him) is the last prophet. So, I am just going to let this story pass me without any effect. If you say this, people can still strike down this story. I can argue with you but there would be no end to it. Same as the other stories you have brought to us. I can accept little because most of them, are untrue. I would take on my father's advice on not to argue with an Ahmadiah, as they are going to be worthless arguments. If you wish to believe in what you heard from your teachers and guardians, then stick to it as you may. But I, deny your statements without arrogance, only as a Muslim.
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Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:50 am
LoGa Knight Phoenexia, there's a large chance that you are wrong, and so am i.This story you told me proves nothing. No, I'm not wrong. The Promised Messiah (as) has recieved many revelations that have come true......if you want I can provide a list........there are hundreds. This story proves everything. Are you saying that 1) The verse that Hadhrat Abu Bakr (ra) spoke from the Holy Qur'an is made up? Go check you're Qur'an if you like. OR 2) That the companions of the Holy Prophet (saw) are lying Quote: Same as how the Ahmadiah denied the fact that Rasulullah (peace be upon him) is the last prophet. We do not believe that. We beleive that the Holy Prophet (saw) was the last and most perfect law-bearing Prophet. No new law or religion will be brought after him. Quote: m just going to let this story pass me without any effect. If you say this, people can still strike down this story. I can argue with you but there would be no end to it. I invite you to debate with me. Quote: the other stories you have brought to us. I can accept little because most of them, are untrue. Prove that they are untrue. Seriously, you contradict yourself a lot. In some forums you say to me "good job, thats what I belie too!" and in others (especially when I am rejecting Sunni and Shi'ite belie) you say "no you are lying". It should be......."either I am lying in all of them, or not at all" Quote: I would take on my father's advice on not to argue with an Ahmadiah, as they are going to be worthless arguments. Agreed, because you won't be able to win. Quote: If you wish to believe in what you heard from your teachers and guardians, then stick to it as you may. But I, deny your statements without arrogance, only as a Muslim. Really? That is full of arrogance in itself.
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Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:50 am
Your promised messiah is a lie. If he was to be what you say, then it proves you believe him as another prophet. Revelations are things that can come and go as easy. Even if he proves a thousand I will not believe it. There is always the someone to send messages, or it was just too easy to predict.
The prophet here is Mohamed. Who had passed away. Not Jesus. Yes, there were prophets before him that died. But it didnt say Jesus was dead.
Thirdly, it proves that whether or not the Companions believed in the death of other prophets, they had no idea at all that Jesus was alive in Heaven. All accounts of this important incident and the important speeches made on the occasion show that even Omar, in the height of excitement, threatening to kill those who should say that Prophet had died, could cite the analogy only of Moses who disappeared for forty days from amongst his people. Even Omar did not cite the analogy of Jesus. If the Companions had any idea whatever that Jesus was alive in heaven, could not Omar, or the Companions who thought like him, have cited the analogy of Jesus? The fact that they cited only the analogy of Moses proves that they had not the slightest idea that Jesus had not died, or that he had even had an experience similar to that of Moses.
Here it says Jesus is not dead, yet the Ahmadhi claims that he is.
You believe that Mohamed(peace be upon him) was the last and yet you call this man the Messiah. So which one is it?
I accept the debate.
In some things, you do a good job. In some, you are false.
Your arrogance shines like the sun.
How can it be full of arrogance when I say that if you choose to believe in what your teachers and guardians says, you should stick to it. So, how is that arrogant?
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Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:54 am
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Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 11:00 pm
LoGa Knight Your promised messiah is a lie. If he was to be what you say, then it proves you believe him as another prophet. Asthaghfurullah. I am going to share some facts that I think you don't know, and should know. 1) Before Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmed (as) claimed to be the Promised Messiah, Islam was being attacked from all sides and there was no one there to support Islamic teachings against the accusations of the non-Muslims. When Hadhur (as) rose up to meet these challenges with quotes from the Holy Qur'an and Ahadith the Christians were silenced and did not know what to say. In many cases he even sent letters to the top Christian officials stating that "I invite you to prove that your whole bible is better than Surah Al-Fatiha alone!" and they could not. At this time all the Muslims believed that Hadhur (as) was great and was becoming the savior of Islam. But, after he received the prophecy of being the Promised Messiah (as) these people turned away from him and started accusing him of being false. Hadhur (as) has stated that "Even if the whole world turned against me my conviction would not change!". At that time he was the only Ahmadhi in the world. That was a little over 100 years ago. This man was born in Qadian, India. 2) When Hadhur (as) passed away there were still very few Ahmadhi's. The next Khalifa before he accepted Ahmadiyyat was also a very reknown Muslim Scholar, and he was invited to many Mosque's to give sermons. He was Royal Physician to the Maharaja of Jammu and Kashmir for many years. But, when he joined Ahmadiyyat he was mocked and jeered at. When he became Khalifa people said "Look even though he is so smart, he is so old, and he will not be able to do anything! When he dies the Ahmadiyya faith will surely die!" They also said "What can he do! He can only sit in his mosque and give commentary on the Holy Qur'an.....he is good for nothing else!" at this the first khalifa's reply was "subhanallah, Allah has given me knowledge of the Holy Qur'an....and what you call a little thing (eg. teaching the Qur'an) in the eyes of Allah is a very big thing!". 3) When the first khalifa passed away the son of the Promised Messiah (as) was elected as the second successor. As a child this mans eye sight had been very bad, and at the time glasses were not invented, so he got very bad marks in school. When he was elected, he was only 25 years old! The opponents of Islam said "Look they are becoming stupid! They elected a mear man of 25 years age to lead their community! What can this man do? Nothing....he has no power and no knowledge. Now, is the time when Ahmadyyat will be destroyed!" But, they were proven wrong again because this man of only 25 years of age spread the community far and wide. During his time the translation of the Holy Qur'an was completed by Ahmadhi's in more than 50 languages before any other Muslim sect could do so. Because of severe persecution in Qadian, he had to migrate to the newly created Pakistan. 4) When he passed away the opponents of Islam again hoped for the destruction of Ahmadiyyat, but Allah foiled their plans again! The third khalifa was elected and the Ahmadhi people were still firm as a rock in their faith. This man also spread the teachings of Islam far and wide. In Pakistan persecution was rising and very rampant against Ahmadhi's. The police stood and watched with joy what people did with the Ahmadhi's....and the so-called Islamic Mullahs were at the forefront of it at all. During this time the whole Muslim ullmah all together declared that Ahmadhi's were not considered Muslim. The greatest thing this Khalifa gave to us was our slogan "Love for All, Hatred for None", which is not only preached but also practiced by the community. 5) When he passed away the fourth Khalifa was elected. Because persecution was so rampant in Pakistan, and Ahmadhi's feared for the safety of their Khalifa, Hadur (rh) migrated to London, England where the new Ahmadhi base was created. It is important to note that when he was migrating a law was created to not let him out of the country. Allah saved him and he still got away! He spread the teachings of Islam far and wide as well. He was renowned for his Question answer sessions, he had so much knowledge about worldy issues, as well as spiritual issues that even people who were against Ahmadhi's were awed by his question answer sessions and his complete straight forward answers. He is also loved for his great sense of humour. His most remarkable achievment was the creation of MTA (Muslim Television Ahmadiyya) which is a 24-hour Muslim television station that is conveyed by satellite, but whose programs can also be viewed on the internet by going here: http://www.alislam.org/index-mta.php?p=wm&s=300&l=ur There are three stations provided here and they are: Urdu, English, and Arabic. 6) Recently he passed away, and it was a very sad occasion. Ahmadhi's all around the world greived their loss and watched the funeral prosessions, live through MTA. Immediately afterwards our current khalifa was elected who is the fifth successor. May Allah strengthen his hands. When he was doing bai'at (the initiation ceremony that occus every year), some Mullahs came to mock at the Ahmadhi Jama'at. But, when they saw the passion in the eyes of the Amadhi's thet converted. During this initiation ceremony there was not enough room in the mosque to fit all Ahmadhi's. Ahmadhi's were littered onto the street in order to do bai'at and it was raining, but they remained there firmly and had no thought of going back home. Many other things have happend but this is good enough for now. Quote: Revelations are things that can come and go as easy. Even if he proves a thousand I will not believe it. There is always the someone to send messages, or it was just too easy to predict. Read this: it is What is Revelation http://www.alislam.org/library/books/revelation/part_4_section_1.htmlQuote: The prophet here is Mohamed. Who had passed away. Not Jesus. Yes, there were prophets before him that died. But it didnt say Jesus was dead. It did not say that Jesus (as) was alive in the heavens either. It just said "ALL prophets before Hadhrat Muhammed (saw) HAD DIED" --no exeptions. Quote: Thirdly, it proves that whether or not the Companions believed in the death of other prophets, they had no idea at all that Jesus was alive in Heaven. Oh my God! Are you saying that the direct followers of the Holy Prophet (saw), who had seen the Holy Prophet (saw) and from him recieved the teachings of Islam are stupider (asthaghfurullah) then the Muslim leaders of today? You should just think about what you just said. If the followers of the Holy Prophet (saw) did not know that Hadhrat Isa (as) was alive in the heavens, and were not taught this by the Holy Prophet (saw), who they learned from directly, then how can what the Muslim leaders of today even believe this! These Muslim leaders of today do not even have an iota of faith that the followers (who knew the Holy Prophet (saw) when he was alive) have. Quote: Here it says Jesus is not dead, yet the Ahmadhi claims that he is. Read this, it is further proof from the Qur'an and Ahadith that Jesus (as) is dead. Don't ever think that I have one source to explain my reasoning. http://www.alislam.org/library/links/Jesus_death/index.htmQuote: You believe that Mohamed(peace be upon him) was the last and yet you call this man the Messiah. So which one is it? Both. Quote: In some things, you do a good job. In some, you are false. In my eyes, how I see it, is either I am false, or I am not. Quote: Your arrogance shines like the sun. I'll pray for you. Quote: How can it be full of arrogance when I say that if you choose to believe in what your teachers and guardians says, you should stick to it. So, how is that arrogant? It is arrogance. Because everything a teacher teaches you is not true. Humans were given brains and reason so that they could use them. You cannot just believe everything people tell you. Sometimes you should go out and search for the truth by yourself.
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Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:15 pm
Well, before I talk, I just want to remind you the I am a Christian, thus we beleive that Jesus died, but was resurected three days later. And then, over the course of 40 days Jesus appeared to the Disciples and various others others that he had been ressurected. (Including Paul, who was the largest Christian persecuter at his time, wanting to snuff out Christianity.)
Thus, I ask you. When Muhammad (pbuh) was alive, was the Bible (Especially the New Testament) corrupted? Wait, you do beleive the NT was corrupted don't you? And if so, was it corrupter during Muhammad's (pbuh) time? Because there are manuscripts, etc. that date back to the 1st century of the New Testament being how it is today...~
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Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:30 pm
LoGa Knight The prophet here is Mohamed. Who had passed away. Not Jesus. Yes, there were prophets before him that died. But it didnt say Jesus was dead. Oh? I didn't know Muslims beleive Jesus was Resurrected?
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Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 4:22 pm
mazuac Well, before I talk, I just want to remind you the I am a Christian, thus we beleive that Jesus died, but was resurected three days later. And then, over the course of 40 days Jesus appeared to the Disciples and various others others that he had been ressurected. (Including Paul, who was the largest Christian persecuter at his time, wanting to snuff out Christianity.) It doesn't really matter that you're a Christian.....you are still welcome to this Guild! blaugh I know that is your belief.....but what if I told you that even throughout the old and new testament there is evidence that Jesus (as) did not die on the cross, but lived through that experience, and later he left the tomb he was in with the help of some of his disciples and went to find the lost sheep of Isreal. He died later in India and was buried in Kashmir, where his grave is still located. This is not only the belief of my denomination of Islam, but also MANY historians have concluded this without getting any evidence from Holy Scriptures. Historians have concluded that a man could not die after only 3 hours on the cross (which is how long Jesus (as) was hung). If you want the quotes from the testament's I will happily provide them to you. Quote: Thus, I ask you. When Muhammad (pbuh) was alive, was the Bible (Especially the New Testament) corrupted? When Hadhrat Muhammed (saw) was alive the whole of Arabia (that wasn't Muslim) could not read or write. So, the question of them knowing if it was corrupted or not cannot be answered. I don't think Muslims at the time knew of all the teachings of the bible, unless they were preached to by the Christians priests when they took their caravans through Christian cities. At the time Muslims only payed extra attention to the Holy Qur'an, which was not even in the form of a book (the verses were recorded on many leaflets). But, one of the pillars of Islam is to believe in all the Holy books that the Prophets brought down. So we do believe that the Bible is a religious book. But, I think the only one we really think is authentic is the Dead Sea Scrolls which is still in its original language, Hebrew. Quote: Wait, you do beleive the NT was corrupted don't you? And if so, was it corrupter during Muhammad's (pbuh) time? Because there are manuscripts, etc. that date back to the 1st century of the New Testament being how it is today...~ What we do believe is (I don't think using the word corrupted is legitimate) while translating the new testament many verses could have been translated incorrectly or been changed because of possible wrong motives of the people who were translating them. I don't know when the NT was translated so I cannot say if it was changed in the time of Hadhrat Muhammed (saw), or before that, or after.
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Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 4:27 pm
mazuac LoGa Knight The prophet here is Mohamed. Who had passed away. Not Jesus. Yes, there were prophets before him that died. But it didnt say Jesus was dead. Oh? I didn't know Muslims beleive Jesus was Resurrected? No Muslims do not believe Jesus (as) was resurrected. They do not believe that Jesus (as) died at all. They believe that when he was going to be crucified, God (Allah) sent someone in his place, who looked like him, to die in his place. Then Jesus (as) was carried up to heaven, where he is still alive to this day. One day, they beleive he will come down to "save" humanity, by killing all non-Muslims. My denomination, though does not beleive this at all. We beleive that Jesus did not dies on the cross, but he was hung on it. After escaping, he went to look for the lost sheep of Isreal and died at a very old age. He is not going to come back to this world again. My denomination is the only one in Islam that gives this message.
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Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 5:51 am
Pheonixia mazuac LoGa Knight The prophet here is Mohamed. Who had passed away. Not Jesus. Yes, there were prophets before him that died. But it didnt say Jesus was dead. Oh? I didn't know Muslims beleive Jesus was Resurrected? No Muslims do not believe Jesus (as) was resurrected. They do not believe that Jesus (as) died at all. They believe that when he was going to be crucified, God (Allah) sent someone in his place, who looked like him, to die in his place. Then Jesus (as) was carried up to heaven, where he is still alive to this day. One day, they beleive he will come down to "save" humanity, by killing all non-Muslims. My denomination, though does not beleive this at all. We beleive that Jesus did not dies on the cross, but he was hung on it. After escaping, he went to look for the lost sheep of Isreal and died at a very old age. He is not going to come back to this world again. My denomination is the only one in Islam that gives this message. some how i still dont beleive it as this fact contradicting about hundred years of Islamic teaching
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Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 8:31 pm
XeroRyn Pheonixia mazuac LoGa Knight The prophet here is Mohamed. Who had passed away. Not Jesus. Yes, there were prophets before him that died. But it didnt say Jesus was dead. Oh? I didn't know Muslims beleive Jesus was Resurrected? No Muslims do not believe Jesus (as) was resurrected. They do not believe that Jesus (as) died at all. They believe that when he was going to be crucified, God (Allah) sent someone in his place, who looked like him, to die in his place. Then Jesus (as) was carried up to heaven, where he is still alive to this day. One day, they beleive he will come down to "save" humanity, by killing all non-Muslims. My denomination, though does not beleive this at all. We beleive that Jesus did not dies on the cross, but he was hung on it. After escaping, he went to look for the lost sheep of Isreal and died at a very old age. He is not going to come back to this world again. My denomination is the only one in Islam that gives this message. some how i still dont beleive it as this fact contradicting about hundred years of Islamic teaching Its not in old Islamic teachings.........you don't find it in any of the hadith and verses of the Holy Qur'an. If you can please support your argument that way.
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Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:44 pm
Hey all. I will just add some points.
A roman king or was it Greek king had a meeting with Bishops and such.They agreed when the king said that Jesus cannot just be a human sacrifice, so he said that it is better to label him as son of Allah.They all agreed.The birthday of Jesus were claimed to be the same as their God they worshiped.The Sun God. This happened later after 200 years after Jesus death.
Phoenexia, it is actually like this, when Jesus descend down, he did not kill anyone. Instead, he prays and everyone else follows him. And then the world ends with Jesus still on Earth. Imam Mahadi you mean. XD All Muslims were already dead by then because I am not sure where did I hear this, it was when I was 6 or so. When all Hishams are dead, the words fo Quran will ascend up into the sky to protect them from destruction. As Allah promised to protect this scripture. All Muslims would then die in great numbers for no reason. This is on Friday. I don'tknow if it's Arabia friday or our friday.
Vy the way, I am scared of Allah's wrath. But the thing is, even if I do convert into being an Ahmadhi, I would still doubt my faith. And I am not really a pure sunni. My father search hadith. And whenever we find something that Muhammad did but we didn't because we are following mashab Shafeei, we would change our ways. So, I am not really into Sunni.
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Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 1:32 pm
LoGa Knight Phoenexia, it is actually like this, when Jesus descend down, he did not kill anyone. Instead, he prays and everyone else follows him. And then the world ends with Jesus still on Earth. Imam Mahadi you mean. XD All Muslims were already dead by then because I am not sure where did I hear this, it was when I was 6 or so. When all Hishams are dead, the words fo Quran will ascend up into the sky to protect them from destruction. As Allah promised to protect this scripture. All Muslims would then die in great numbers for no reason. This is on Friday. I don'tknow if it's Arabia friday or our friday. No that is not the majority of Muslims scholars belief. They believe that Jesus will descend from the heavens and then together with some Imam Mahdhi on the donkey dajjal (the dajjal is not a donkey by the way) who apparently shoots fire from his mouth will kill all swine and destroy the cross. Then who so repents they will be saved (whoever says they will repent they will be saved)....and who does not repent will not be shown mercy, because on the last day the other faiths will totally have to be annihilated. If you think about it logically, since you believe that Jesus will descend from heaven on the last day then there will be no time for prayer, then only violence can be used. The true facts is that before the 14th century all Muslims believed that "Jesus" would descend around the 14th century, as was supported in the Ahadith and Holy Qur'an. When Jesus did not come and a man by the name of Ahmad came who fulfilled ALL prophecies regarding the Messiah then the Muslims leaders were dissapointed and rejected him. They then told there people that Jesus would come in the near future. And he did not. Tehy then moved the date to the last day, where he will still not come. The imam that was to come, has come. He claimed to be the Promised Messiah and the Reformer of this day and age when there was a lunar and solar eclipse.....as was stated in the literature of all Muslims. Quote: By the way, I am scared of Allah's wrath. But the thing is, even if I do convert into being an Ahmadhi, I would still doubt my faith. No you would not. Let me tell you a little thing. In Pakistan when Ahmadhi's are sent to prison for little things like writing bismillah on their wedding card.....they go to prison and even do tabligh there. Then most of them do gain converts. Can you imagine murderers, thieves and every other criminal turning a new leaf and becoming Ahmadhi? These people who had no faith before, have so much faith, that the people that knew them are amazed by their transformation. And after they become Ahmadhi they have no thoughts of turning back. So, you are neither a thief nor a murderer...if you joined Ahmadiyyat you would not have any doubts at all. If you wish to experience Ahamdiyyat first-and I will tell you about the Ahmadiyya community in Malaysia. Quote: And I am not really a pure sunni. My father search hadith. And whenever we find something that Muhammad did but we didn't because we are following mashab Shafeei, we would change our ways. So, I am not really into Sunni. Your father would not have to do this if he was Ahmadhi. Everything our Messiah tells us is so logical, that it cannot even be questioned. No religious scholar of this day or age would have the courage to go and debate with our Khalifa.....because of his wisdom and because that the opponents of Ahmadiyyat even know that his claim is true. I will present you with a simple thought now: Allah said in the Holy Qur'an that he will deal with all lairs and infidels Himself, and they would get their just reward with him in this life and the next. Meaning they would live a miserable life in this world because they would live a life of lies and Allah would not support them, and then when they died no one would remember their name. Now when Allah has said this Himself in the Holy Qur'an then if the Promised Messiah Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (as) was a liar and infidel then why did he not receive this award? Instead he did not suffer in his life time and his community grew in leaps and bounds. So, there are two logical explanations.....either The Promised Messiah is the true Reformer of this day and age..........OR Allah is not alive anymore.(astaghfurllah)
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Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 5:24 am
well tell me about ahmadiyyat community in Malaysia I want to know
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