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 Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:47 am
Isn't it funny that Pro-life gets so much flack, but we don't have a "quote dumb stuff pro-choice advocates say" thread.
Not proposing we start one or anything, but I just find it amusing that we have to treat our side like a dissertation, while they treat theirs like a slumber party where they sit around being catty and talking trash about people.
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Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:55 am
The difference may be that for many of us our position in the abortion debate is often based in a deep seated belief that life is sacred particularly innocent life.
They fight for the license to do any thing they want regardless of the effects it may have on other people. The choicers fight like Genghis Kahn : grabbing what the can for them selves because they can. They make them selves feel bigger by ripping quotes out of context and then putting the person down. It ties in with the whole theory that they are gods and their own will decideds what is right and what is wrong.
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Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:27 pm
Well, honestly it's more because a lot of us oldbies and mods decided a long time ago that we didn't want to become like their guild, so we instated some rules of civility and expect everyone to follow them, while they... Don't. sweatdrop
You're right, though. Ironically enough, we, the "Bible-thumping conservative" side of this debate, are the ones who are trying to encourage tolerance more than the "civil rights liberals" are. :shrug:
There's a lot more I could say, but... It would tend to go over the line of civility a bit. xd I really don't like the way they run their guild, though.
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Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 6:12 pm
Also, I don't suggest anyone go into their guild. It's... Really easy to get really, really angry just by reading some of the stuff they say. I haven't been in there in a year at least now, except for, I think, trying to find my hate thread again a couple times. xd They've finally deleted it now though, apparently, so there's no longer any reason. 3nodding
I liked that thread, though... It made me feel like a threat. ^_^
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Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:44 pm
I just hate that, the second we make any kind of forward claim, we have to "prove it", but their entire position is A) centrist, and B ) not provable by fact.
We have to prove why a fetus isn't a parasite and why reproduction -- if that wasn't the motive for sex -- isn't a malignancy.
That's ultimately the problem with thinking the "anti-God, secularist liberal" attitude is a catch-all. You can be a tolerant person but still have boundaries and morals and a sense of right and wrong.
I don't have a problem with them throwing around insults in their guild, but at the same time, I hate this whole hypocritical, pearl-clutching BS thing they do. It's not like they're above slinging mud; hell, on Gaia, they're usually the purveyors of it before we are.
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Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:59 pm
Eh. For me, it's a palpable hatred that I see. And it really does make me feel sick. Because I'm too sympathetic, and I feel the emotions. Maybe that doesn't make sense, I don't know, but that's how it is.
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Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 7:29 am
It makes sense. We're discussing human life, not just some political opinion. I wish I knew where the hate came from, but I guess I've gotten tired of trying to placate it. Nothing I say is going to change their reception to our ideas, no matter how civil, rational, and level-headed we try to sound. They're just going to reduce our arguments down to "women are whores for having abortions" "women don't deserve the right to choice" "I hate women" etc. We can write a 2,000 word essay on why we're Pro-life, give citations and everything, and they'll still just give the equivalent of going, "yeah whatever, PRO-CHOICE 4 LIFE!!!!"
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Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 1:27 pm
We actually did have a "stupidest thing you've ever heard in an abortion debate," thread at one point. No names, of course, but still. It was mostly just to vent frustration, but the difference was, that was about the points, I believe. I'm not too sure, I don't remember it very well.
I avoid their guild for the most part just because there really is so much hatred, and it doesn't help anyone. I believe that we can at the very least agree to take measures to reduce abortions, and certainly to make it so women don't feel pressured into abortions they don't want. If both sides work together on that, we can accomplish great things, and cut back abortions a great deal. But building these walls of hatred, to the point where people say, "I can't work on something like that with you because you're anti-choice," is harmful. It puts rivalry above helping women and children. And I think if I go there and see that hatred, my own hatred will build, and someday it would make me so bitter that I'd do the same..."I can't work with you to make life better for others because I disagree with you." I don't ever want to be that selfish, so I avoid it.
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Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 3:17 pm
I admit to having quoted and made fun of people in the hangout thread, though I don't name names, it being against guild policy. Some stuff is just too priceless not to share.
Like the one about it being impossible to oppress people who aren't considered people. I asked for any black pro-choicers to field that one and someone essentially called me a racist. xd
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Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 4:16 pm
I think I qualify as both a "civil rights liberal" and a "secularist liberal," but I am still pro-life. Clearly, people on both sides of the argument have some work to do.
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Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 7:44 pm
I like the fact that we don't have threads like that and that this guild has less drama.
We may not always agree with each other at times but at least there isn't as much flaming here as compared to their guild.
I made the mistake long ago to join that guild (i'm more personal pro-choice and being that people have to make their own choices) but I left not long after.
Anyways "they suck" threads just tend to make them look bad and we would be no better if we made threads like that.
As for "Bible-thumping", too bad for them that I don't read the bible.
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Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 7:03 pm
((First post, long time stalker. I probably will not post again, but I thought I should say something.))
Erasmuses: Isn't it also interesting how hypocritical it is for you to say that we do not bash, seeing as though I've read most of the threads with in the next few pages, and a great lot of them have people saying how the pro-choicers are hypocrites, run around in circles, they suck, etc? I've even seen poll-skewering threads. People always say that pro-choicers do not treat them with respect, but from what it sounds like most of us treat them with very little respect too. Please do not glorify yourself or our guild on us being completely clean of any of that. Thanks.
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Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 10:01 pm
You're right. :3 And feel free to post! We don't bite! xd And we need the activity. crying Especially by smart, observant women such as you seem to be!
Mm. Honestly, you are absolutely right, there is a sort of hypocritical element to it. However, I will say that I don't feel like we go to far at all, whereas I think they really do. You're going to get people saying things about the other side in any subject with two polar-ly opposing sides. Little jabs, comments. And in a guild as old as this one, involved in such a heated debate, you're also going to get a bunch of past situations which get made fun of. Like the classic, "Oranges are vegetables" argument. xd It's funny! And it actually happened. But we keep it down to a dull roar, because we feel that our message is hurt by that sort of low-brow, low-blow content.
It's not that we think we're better than them; Pro-Lifers versus Pro-Choicers. Although, I do think the PLG is better than the PCG, it's not really because of the things they say about us; Honestly, what they say in their guild is none of our business, and we can reply to things they say outside of their guild however we like. xd Why I think we're better than them is a subject for another day. :XP:
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Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 11:49 am
I.Am You're right. :3 And feel free to post! We don't bite! xd And we need the activity. crying Especially by smart, observant women such as you seem to be! Mm. Honestly, you are absolutely right, there is a sort of hypocritical element to it. However, I will say that I don't feel like we go to far at all, whereas I think they really do. You're going to get people saying things about the other side in any subject with two polar-ly opposing sides. Little jabs, comments. And in a guild as old as this one, involved in such a heated debate, you're also going to get a bunch of past situations which get made fun of. Like the classic, "Oranges are vegetables" argument. xd It's funny! And it actually happened. But we keep it down to a dull roar, because we feel that our message is hurt by that sort of low-brow, low-blow content. Don't forget the "Tomato's and rabbits can abort so it's o.k." debate (yes I actually heard people say that before).
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Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:54 pm
Yeah. I love the nature argument. 3nodding Really? Things in nature abort? Wow. Well, you know, there's things in nature that have no problem with killing others of their kind. In fact, there's a lot more than just those that have abortion, and many of them eat their slain young or enemies! We should totally adopt that as a law in America. 3nodding Cannibals are people too!
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