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I guess part of the reason I feel the way I do about abortion is because of my perspective. I know that's pedestrian logic, but it goes farther than that.

As a man, there's none of this "sex doesn't ALWAYS make babies" s**t. It's none of this "oh, it's HARRRRRD not to have sex" stuff. The message for me is, you have a choice: have sex, or don't have sex. If you choose to have sex, you're gonna face the consequences. If you don't want to face the consequences, keep it in your pants. Simple.

I think this entire argument is predicated on feelings.

If men were to take the same opt-out attitude some women have on abortion, we'd be labeled deadbeat lowlives...regardless how we "felt".

That would be Divine. I love his sig.

You're right. In debate, we're constantly met with "consent to sex =/= consent to pregnancy." Yet that only applies to women, apparently, since men who don't want to pay child support "should've thought of that before they had sex!" Now if we make the exact same argument about women getting pregnant through their own actions, we're prudes who want to punish people for having sex and in actuality, we hate sex and think anyone who has it without having babies should burn in hell.

Oral sex?

a**l sex?

Various other things I won't elaborate on that can also result in orgasm?

Avoiding the risk of pregnancy doesn't require being completely celibate.

As a gay man, logically, I probably shouldn't have any say in any woman's pregnancy-- that's not what I'm asking.

I'm asking for consistency in society's value system when it comes to human life. Is that really so much? I mean, honestly.

Absolutely correct though in that the double standard does exist that men have no way to opt out of pregnancy without seeming like a deadbeat. I mean, when you look at it women have more control in the pregnancy because they do carry the child, but should they have so much control that they get to make a choice that probably will have a negative effect on the man too (if he actually wanted the child)? Not to mention terminating another life.

I know I may seem like a "typical" pro-lifer saying "think of the man", but when I'm in any situation, I also think of everyone else's feelings, not just my own. And if it's a child to the man that a woman is having sex with, and she has an abortion that he doesn't approve of, then she did kill his child (at least in his mind). That would cause me some hardcore trauma.

"Mutual masturbation?"

It's only possible to get pregnant if semen enters the v****a. So, if I'm on one side of the room, and on the other side there's a guy masturbating, I'm not going to get pregnant. Likewise, if I masturbate a guy with just my hands, he only ejaculates on my hands, and I don't touch myself anywhere near my v****a before thoroughly washing my hands, I'm not going to get pregnant.

Also: how are oral and a**l sex not "penetrative?" eek

Quite a few people don't think men should be unable to opt out, but quite a few do not. I'm not talking about the people who say, "Yeah, no child support if they opt out during pregnancy." I'm talking about the large number that don't.

What doesn't make since to me is that often times when a woman doesn't what the child she can abort and people will support her but if a man doesn't want they'll give him a hard time about child support and say he is a crappy dad, blah blah blah or yell at him if he wants the woman to abort it.

Really it's a double standard.

I say that once to consent to sex you consent to any possible conciquence it may bring. Both people helped created the baby so it's not just the man's or the woman's fault.

Er, dude, do you really have that much trouble with the human anatomy? Or with human sexuality? Because this may not be the subject to tackle if so.